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Hyperloop (High-Speed Pneumatic Transport System)

rynner2

rynner2

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Elon Musk to reveal 'Hyperloop' design on 12 August
Details of a new 'fifth form' of transport, known as Hyperloop will be revealed by SpaceX founder Elon Musk next month
By Sophie Curtis
3:53PM BST 16 Jul 2013

Elon Musk, founder of SpaceX and Tesla Motors, has announced on Twitter that the “alpha design” of his fabled Hyperloop will be revealed on 12 August, and that the project will be open source.

First announced in July 2012, Hyperloop is a hypothetical “fifth mode” of transport, intended as an alternative to boats, planes, cars and trains. Musk has previously described it as a “cross between a Concorde and a rail gun and an air hockey table”.

The system would, in theory, be able to travel from downtown Los Angeles to downtown San Francisco in under 30 minutes, or 343 miles at more than 685mph. It would not need rails but could work either below or above ground, according to Musk.

In a conversation with his Twitter followers on Monday, Musk confirmed that Hyperloop would be open source, stating: “I really hate patents unless critical to company survival”.

Musk also revealed that the “pod” will be about 2 metres in diameter, and that he is willing to work with partners on developing the system, as long as they share the philosophical goal of “breakthrough tech done fast & w/o wasting money on BS”.

The Hyperloop is expected to cost around $6 billion (£3.98bn). However, this is less than a tenth of the cost of a proposed high speed railway between the two cities, which is projected to cost $69 billion.

Musk is no stranger to ambitious transportation projects. In September 2009, SpaceX's Falcon 1 rocket became the first privately funded liquid-fuelled vehicle to put a satellite into Earth orbit.
SpaceX has also been selected by NASA to be part of the first programme that entrusts private companies to deliver cargo to the International Space Station.

Meanwhile, Tesla Motors gained widespread attention in 2008, when it produced the first fully electric sports car, known as the Roadster, which ran on lithium-ion battery cells. It later went on to develop the Model S, a fully electric luxury sedan.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/n ... ugust.html

Sounds more exciting than the Segway, anyhow! ;)
 
More on the Hyperloop:

Inside the Hyperloop: the pneumatic travel system faster than the speed of sound
It is called “The Hyperloop” and, according to the designer, it will be a revolutionary “fifth mode” of transport, eclipsing trains, planes, boats and automobiles.
By Nick Allen, Los Angeles
6:39PM BST 10 Aug 2013

The “cross between Concorde, a rail gun and an air hockey table” will deliver passengers between US cities faster than the speed of sound.

The history of transport is replete with dreamers who have concocted such schemes for getting people from A to B in previously unimagined haste. And many of them have remained just that, impractical ideas on a drawing board that will never see the light of day.

But the latest mysterious project, which has had the technology world buzzing for months, has one crucial difference. Its backer is a Silicon Valley wunderkind with a proven track record of turning science fiction into reality.
Billionaire Elon Musk’s CV is impressive, to say the least. He made his initial fortune from PayPal, the online secure payment system, before going on to launch spaceships. Last year his SpaceX venture became the first private operation to dock a cargo capsule with the International Space Station.

Back on Earth, Mr Musk also founded Tesla, which has made electric sports cars viable and profitable.
The mercurial, fictional character of Tony Stark, played by Robert Downey Jr in the Iron Man films, is reputedly based on him.

So when Mr Musk, 42, announced that he would be publishing plans for the Hyperloop on Monday, August 12 - tomorrow - scientists were sent into a tailspin.

They will have to wait for Mr Musk to post his “alpha design” on the internet then but he has dropped several hints about its features, including that the system will be powered by solar panels.
Mr Musk will not be patenting the design and it will be “open source”, meaning anyone can modify it, or try to build it.

The fevered speculation about what it would actually look like has ranged from wild theories on Star Trek-style teleportation to more achievable ones involving cars being pushed through vacuum sealed tunnels using magnets.
Mr Musk has denied it will be a so-called “vactrain”, a concept that is already being pursued by a company in Colorado. His idea “does involve a tube, but not a vacuum tube”, he said, adding: “Not frictionless, but very low friction.”

In recent weeks a large part of the mystery appeared to have been solved. A technology enthusiast in Canada called John Gardi published a diagram of how the Hyperloop might work. He went on to ask Mr Musk on Twitter: “Can you give me some basic clues? What diameter of tube so I can start designing stations and throughways?”
To his extreme surprise Mr Musk replied: “Your guess is the closest I’ve seen anyone guess so far. Pod diameter probably around 2m.”

Mr Gardi, who describes himself modestly as a “tinkerer”, came up with a tunnel 9ft in diameter, raised above the ground on pylons. His tube could be made from materials already used for sewer pipes. It would form a continuous loop between two destination points. Giant turbines would blast a stream of air into the tube. The two-metre wide pods, carrying people, would be moved by a rail gun - a tube that uses magnets to accelerate material passing along it.
As they approach their journey’s end they would be routed out of the air stream and slowed down using a magnetic braking system.

In an extensive analysis published on the website Motherboard, Mr Gardi concluded: “I believe that Hyperloop is merely a modern day version of the pneumatic tubes used in banks, stores, and industry to move money and small items over long distances or to other floors of a building.
“They’ve been around for over a century, though not so much these days. One reason I think Hyperloop is simpler than folks think is that Elon Musk has resurrected another technology from the depths of time, one that was a contender once, too - the electric car!”

Mr Musk’s intended location for the first Hyperloop is California, between Los Angeles and San Francisco. His motivation for the project came from disillusionment with the Golden State’s high speed rail project, which has been dubbed the “bullet train to nowhere” after a series of setbacks.

He believes the Hyperloop could be built for a tenth of the cost and deliver passengers between the two cities in just 30 minutes, compared to three hours for the bullet train.

The bullet train is currently estimated to be costing $68 billion and may not be completed until 2028. It would reach top speeds of only around 130mph. In a survey seven in 10 people said, if the train ever does run, they would “never or hardly ever” use it anyway.

In an internet conversation this week with Sir Richard Branson, Mr Musk said: “I originally started thinking about it when I read a thing about California’s high speed rail project, which was somewhat disappointing. It is actually worse than taking the plane. I get a little sad when things are not getting better in the future.

“Another example would be like the Concorde being retired and the fact there is no supersonic passenger transport. I think that is sad. You want the future to be better than the past, or at least I do.
“The Hyperloop is something that would go effectively faster than the speed of sound. Conceivably you could live in San Fran and work in LA.”
Mr Musk said the Hyperloop would be best used between paired cities less than 1,000 miles apart, and would be safer than air travel.

However, Mr Musk said last week that he is too busy with space to build it himself. He added: “I think I kind of shot myself in the foot by ever mentioning the Hyperloop, because I’m too strung out. Obviously I have to focus on core Tesla business, and SpaceX business, and that’s more than enough.”

Mr Gardi has confidence though. He said: “Building Hyperloop’s main line for a tenth the cost of high speed rail is not only feasible, it’s doable.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/n ... sound.html
 
This kind of thing has been tried before in earlier times and it failed.
With present-day technology though, there is the chance that it could work.

However...nobody's talked about how much it would cost to run.
 
The Hyperloop: flawed fantasy or achievable challenge
The Hyperloop, an ambitious new form of transport proposed by SpaceX and PayPal founder Elon Musk, could be possible but faces some flaws, according to those who have analysed his plans.
By Richard Gray, Science Correspondent
6:03AM BST 14 Aug 2013

The unveiling of the designs of Musk's "fifth mode of transport", which would fire passengers in pods at speeds of up to 760 miles per hour between cities, has generated a great deal of excitement.

Amateur engineers who had been speculating on what Musk had been intending when he first raised the prospect of the Hyperloop, were left tearing up their own plans.

What Musk proposes is certainly ambitious.
In a 57 page design brief, he set out his vision, with passengers paying around $20 (£13) to travel in capsules that will be propelled across distances of up to 900 miles in a series of tubes.

The tubes themselves would be elevated above street level, in which the capsules would float on a cushion of pressurised air expelled from tiny holes in skis attached to the bottom of the capsule.

A magnetic linear accelerator at various points along the tubs would accelerate the capsules, each containing 28 people.
For a Hyperloop link between Los Angels and San Francisco, Musk estimates the journey would take just half an hour and could transport 7.4 million people each way a year.
All this he promises for just $6 billion (£3.88 billion).

While it all sounds feasible, there are some potential pitfalls that stand in the way:

Heat damage
Compressing air and expelling it can produce heat, which could potentially damage the capsule and the surrounding tube.
Musk predicts cooling the air from temperatures of 283 degrees C after compression and that temperatures of around 125 degrees C will be created immediately beneath the skis.

Sam Jaffe, a senior research analyst at Navigant Research, said that pods would need to carry quite large coolant systems to counteract this.
This would increase their weight and reduce their efficiency.

He said: "The biggest concern with this plan has to do with temperature. The pod will be compressing air and expelling it downwards and backwards.
"All that air compression creates an enormous amount of heat, which can damage the pod and its machinery.
"Musk’s solution is to add to each pod a water tank that will capture that heat and turn it into steam to be collected at the next station.

"Although the thermodynamic calculations are correct, a small pod with only a few cubic feet of room for a heat exchanger leaves little space for an efficient exchange of heat.
"That means that the flow of water must be increased, requiring a lot more water on board. There may be an elegant solution for this challenge, but it’s not in Musk’s current paper."

Wind stress
Tall structures are prone to wind shear – just ask any sky-scrapper architect.
The differences in wind strength at the top of a building compared to the bottom can place large forces on them and cause them to sway, if not appropriately designed.

Musk proposes building the Hyperloop tube and its solar panels on top of pillars ranging from 20 feet to 100 feet.

In analysis for Navigant Research, Mr Jaffe said: "Wind stress is another challenge.
"Any structure elevated 100 feet off the ground is going to be under a lot of wind pressure, which will act on it in weird and sometimes multiple directions.

"If that structure is a heavy tube stretching hundreds of miles in either direction, you effectively have a big sail. Will the concrete pylons be powerful enough to resist that pressure?"

Land cost
The pylons themselves will not take up much land, but anyone attempting to turn Musk's vision into a reality will need to seek permission to build along a long thin 400 mile long strip of land.

As some have pointed out, the $6 billion cost of building the Hyperloop does not include the cost of buying land, which would surely see the project costs rocket.
Even if this was possible, getting planning permission to build such a construction is yet another hurdle.

This is not as simple as it seems. Look at the problems with building wind turbines and facing the route of the High Speed 2 Rail link in the UK.
Now imagine trying to do that with something that will be elevated above the landscape and visible for miles around.

Even if they were to build it along the route of an existing highway, then the traffic delays caused by the construction would be difficult to sell to commuters and politicians.

Energy supply
Musk proposes using solar panels mounted on top of the tubes to provide the energy required to power the Hyperloop.

John Hansman, a professor of aeronautics and astronautics at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, told the MIT Technology Review, that he had reservations about the energy it would require.
He said: "It would be enormously expensive."

“My questions aren’t could you do it, but could you do it in a way that makes sense from an energy efficiency standpoint and makes sense from an economic standpoint.”

He added that Musk's proposal to use Tesla electric vehicle batteries to suck air in through the front of the pod, compress it and force it out through skis on the bottom required a lot of energy.
He said it was unclear whether the batteries would hold enough energy to do this for the entire trip.

Practicality
To transport 7.4 million people a year, Musk predicts the Hyperloop would need to have one capsule departing once every minute for 12 hours a day every day.

However, he also raises the prospect of airport style security, which combined with the inevitable technical hitches that will create delays, could dramatically reduce the numbers that could travel.

Equally, there will be peak times, during the hours when commuters want to reach their place of work and return home, so there will be times when it will be more congested and others when it will be quiet.
So, the chances of carrying the maximum number of passengers Musk is aiming for diminishes.

With the High Speed Rail link between San Francisco and Los Angeles that so riled Musk into dreaming up the Hyperloop in the first place predicted to carry at least 16.5 million, then the Hyperloop is unlikely to fulfil the area's transport needs.

However, if Musk's estimate for a cost of $6 billion is correct, compared to the $68 billion for the high speed rail project, then he could build several Hyperloops to meet the demand.

G-forces
Provided the capsules are accelerated slowly, then the forces exerted on humans inside the capsules should actually be fairly low. No more than that of a sports car, according to Musk.

However, the tubes would need to be as flat as possible and without any steep corners to ensure those forces stay low.

If the capsule banks with the corners then any additional g-force will be applied vertically down through the capsule, making the ride more comfortable.

Musk's other commitments

Elon Musk himself has admitted that he is already over stretched with running his two companies – SpaceX and Tesla. He is also on the board for a solar installation company called Solar City.

With five children at home, he has said he is not able to dedicate the time that would be needed to see a Hyperloop realised.
Instead he has said he may attempt to build a small-scale prototype but will rely on others to take the idea through to fruition.

Sadly, as Jay Yarow of Business Insider points out, a project of this scale needs someone of Musk's vision, influence and wealth to make a reality.
Mr Yarow said: "Sadly, his 57-page plan for the Hyperloop is missing the key element for its success: Elon Musk." 8)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/n ... lenge.html
 
A commentary on Elon Musk's Hyperloop, and a look at predecessor technologies, back to Brunel and before:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/scie ... -pneu.html

A long article, so I wasn't going to paste it in full - but I can't anyway, because this is one of those Telegraph articles that refuses to be copied!
 
Thunderfoot comes up with some objections to Elon Musk's Hyperloop concept:
I don't think you have to be a scientist to work this out, but his explanations are very good.
Hyperloop may be a doomed venture.
 
Hyperloop is not going to happen. Musk should drop that expensive project.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I have many doubts about this Hyperloop business ...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Andy X said:
Good point. That hadn't even occurred to me, but it now seems very obvious. I have many doubts about this Hyperloop business ...
Click to expand...
The Hyperloop is an investment exercise. A way of getting enthusiastic people with wads of cash to invest in blue sky thinking.
 
rynner2 said:
The Hyperloop: flawed fantasy or achievable challenge
The Hyperloop, an ambitious new form of transport proposed by SpaceX and PayPal founder Elon Musk, could be possible but faces some flaws, according to those who have analysed his plans.
By Richard Gray, Science Correspondent
6:03AM BST 14 Aug 2013

The unveiling of the designs of Musk's "fifth mode of transport", which would fire passengers in pods at speeds of up to 760 miles per hour between cities, has generated a great deal of excitement.

Amateur engineers who had been speculating on what Musk had been intending when he first raised the prospect of the Hyperloop, were left tearing up their own plans.

What Musk proposes is certainly ambitious.
In a 57 page design brief, he set out his vision, with passengers paying around $20 (£13) to travel in capsules that will be propelled across distances of up to 900 miles in a series of tubes.

The tubes themselves would be elevated above street level, in which the capsules would float on a cushion of pressurised air expelled from tiny holes in skis attached to the bottom of the capsule.

A magnetic linear accelerator at various points along the tubs would accelerate the capsules, each containing 28 people.
For a Hyperloop link between Los Angels and San Francisco, Musk estimates the journey would take just half an hour and could transport 7.4 million people each way a year.
All this he promises for just $6 billion (£3.88 billion).

While it all sounds feasible, there are some potential pitfalls that stand in the way:

Heat damage
Compressing air and expelling it can produce heat, which could potentially damage the capsule and the surrounding tube.
Musk predicts cooling the air from temperatures of 283 degrees C after compression and that temperatures of around 125 degrees C will be created immediately beneath the skis.

Sam Jaffe, a senior research analyst at Navigant Research, said that pods would need to carry quite large coolant systems to counteract this.
This would increase their weight and reduce their efficiency.

He said: "The biggest concern with this plan has to do with temperature. The pod will be compressing air and expelling it downwards and backwards.
"All that air compression creates an enormous amount of heat, which can damage the pod and its machinery.
"Musk’s solution is to add to each pod a water tank that will capture that heat and turn it into steam to be collected at the next station.

"Although the thermodynamic calculations are correct, a small pod with only a few cubic feet of room for a heat exchanger leaves little space for an efficient exchange of heat.
"That means that the flow of water must be increased, requiring a lot more water on board. There may be an elegant solution for this challenge, but it’s not in Musk’s current paper."

Wind stress
Tall structures are prone to wind shear – just ask any sky-scrapper architect.
The differences in wind strength at the top of a building compared to the bottom can place large forces on them and cause them to sway, if not appropriately designed.

Musk proposes building the Hyperloop tube and its solar panels on top of pillars ranging from 20 feet to 100 feet.

In analysis for Navigant Research, Mr Jaffe said: "Wind stress is another challenge.
"Any structure elevated 100 feet off the ground is going to be under a lot of wind pressure, which will act on it in weird and sometimes multiple directions.

"If that structure is a heavy tube stretching hundreds of miles in either direction, you effectively have a big sail. Will the concrete pylons be powerful enough to resist that pressure?"

Land cost
The pylons themselves will not take up much land, but anyone attempting to turn Musk's vision into a reality will need to seek permission to build along a long thin 400 mile long strip of land.

As some have pointed out, the $6 billion cost of building the Hyperloop does not include the cost of buying land, which would surely see the project costs rocket.
Even if this was possible, getting planning permission to build such a construction is yet another hurdle.

This is not as simple as it seems. Look at the problems with building wind turbines and facing the route of the High Speed 2 Rail link in the UK.
Now imagine trying to do that with something that will be elevated above the landscape and visible for miles around.

Even if they were to build it along the route of an existing highway, then the traffic delays caused by the construction would be difficult to sell to commuters and politicians.

Energy supply
Musk proposes using solar panels mounted on top of the tubes to provide the energy required to power the Hyperloop.

John Hansman, a professor of aeronautics and astronautics at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, told the MIT Technology Review, that he had reservations about the energy it would require.
He said: "It would be enormously expensive."

“My questions aren’t could you do it, but could you do it in a way that makes sense from an energy efficiency standpoint and makes sense from an economic standpoint.”

He added that Musk's proposal to use Tesla electric vehicle batteries to suck air in through the front of the pod, compress it and force it out through skis on the bottom required a lot of energy.
He said it was unclear whether the batteries would hold enough energy to do this for the entire trip.

Practicality
To transport 7.4 million people a year, Musk predicts the Hyperloop would need to have one capsule departing once every minute for 12 hours a day every day.

However, he also raises the prospect of airport style security, which combined with the inevitable technical hitches that will create delays, could dramatically reduce the numbers that could travel.

Equally, there will be peak times, during the hours when commuters want to reach their place of work and return home, so there will be times when it will be more congested and others when it will be quiet.
So, the chances of carrying the maximum number of passengers Musk is aiming for diminishes.

With the High Speed Rail link between San Francisco and Los Angeles that so riled Musk into dreaming up the Hyperloop in the first place predicted to carry at least 16.5 million, then the Hyperloop is unlikely to fulfil the area's transport needs.

However, if Musk's estimate for a cost of $6 billion is correct, compared to the $68 billion for the high speed rail project, then he could build several Hyperloops to meet the demand.

G-forces
Provided the capsules are accelerated slowly, then the forces exerted on humans inside the capsules should actually be fairly low. No more than that of a sports car, according to Musk.

However, the tubes would need to be as flat as possible and without any steep corners to ensure those forces stay low.

If the capsule banks with the corners then any additional g-force will be applied vertically down through the capsule, making the ride more comfortable.

Musk's other commitments

Elon Musk himself has admitted that he is already over stretched with running his two companies – SpaceX and Tesla. He is also on the board for a solar installation company called Solar City.

With five children at home, he has said he is not able to dedicate the time that would be needed to see a Hyperloop realised.
Instead he has said he may attempt to build a small-scale prototype but will rely on others to take the idea through to fruition.

Sadly, as Jay Yarow of Business Insider points out, a project of this scale needs someone of Musk's vision, influence and wealth to make a reality.
Mr Yarow said: "Sadly, his 57-page plan for the Hyperloop is missing the key element for its success: Elon Musk." 8)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/n ... lenge.html
Click to expand...

Seven years later and there's no Hyperloop--in Dubai or anywhere else.

2020 and 2021 were the dates being touted by advocates, but there's still been no realistic functioning model.

To say this has been oversold is an understatement.

 
Yithian said:
Seven years later and there's no Hyperloop--in Dubai or anywhere else.

2020 and 2021 were the dates being touted by advocates, but there's still been no realistic functioning model.

To say this has been oversold is an understatement.

Click to expand...
It will never happen.
 
Mythopoeika said:
Now all they need to do is to build a really long track underground.
Click to expand...
It has the same fundamental problem as monorails and the LEV - no easy way of changing tracks. The only working commercial monorail is in Wuppertal and that city has a unique geographic challenge which makes the limitations of the monorail acceptable.

The US has a perfectly good railway system - it just needs to put some passenger trains on it. Call them 'self charging hybrids' to satisfy the greenies. (Diesel-Electrics - what we have been running since the 1940's, actually)
 
Krepostnoi said:
There's also one in Kuala Lumpur.
Click to expand...
Didn't know about that one. There was one in Sydney (Australia) for a time - i have actually travelled on both the Sydney and the Wuppertal one.

The basic problems remain, however, some of which are :
a) all trains have to travel at the same speed.
b) a broken down train causes a complete cessation of service until it can be removed which is not easy - you can't just shunt it into a side line.
c) Carriage of freight is virtually impossible

I'm not thinking very well at the moment or I would have come up with more and better - something to do with first cost and maintenance costs of the more complex infrastructure, but that would need some research I can't be assed to do at 6:45am :)

Suffice it to say there is nothing wrong with - or currently better than - two steel rails for efficiently shifting large quantities of anything (including people) on land.

I'm interested by the proposal of a rail tunnel from the UK to Ireland - I wonder how they intend to overcome the fact that the British track gauge is 4ft 8(and a half) inches and the Irish gauge - including Northern Ireland - is 5ft 3in.
 
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Cochise said:
Didn't know about that one. There was one in Sydney (Australia) for a time - i have actually travelled on both the Sydney and the Wuppertal one.

The basic problems remain, however, some of which are :
a) all trains have to travel at the same speed.
b) a broken down train causes a complete cessation of service until it can be removed which is not easy - you can't just shunt it into a side line.
c) Carriage of freight is virtually impossible

I'm not thinking very well at the moment or I would have come up with more.
Click to expand...
Yes, although there also advantages insofar as monorails are - usually - able to avoid traffic jams (which is no small plus in downtown KL...), and elevated systems can exploit existing roadways, rather than needing dedicated gaps to be created.

I'd agree, though, that it's not a perfect solution by any stretch. Ideally, we'd have designed our cities on a more human scale, rather than the city centre/suburb divide, and the attendant need for commuting. One slight positive that might emerge from the current misery is a fundamental rethink of work patterns and locations.
 
Krepostnoi said:
Yes, although there also advantages insofar as monorails are - usually - able to avoid traffic jams (which is no small plus in downtown KL...), and elevated systems can exploit existing roadways, rather than needing dedicated gaps to be created.

I'd agree, though, that it's not a perfect solution by any stretch. Ideally, we'd have designed our cities on a more human scale, rather than the city centre/suburb divide, and the attendant need for commuting. One slight positive that might emerge from the current misery is a fundamental rethink of work patterns and locations.
Click to expand...
I do think monorail type systems - of which the hyperloop is one - can have advantages in specific circumstances. But a typical commuter system is awful for that type of technology - you have people from dozens - maybe hundreds - of suburbs converging on a central hub.

Where monorails could be useful is where there is a predictable and fairly consistent traffic that is balanced and between a specific point of origin and a specific destination - the service from Paddington to Heathrow in the UK would be an example, except there was already the traditional steel rail infrastructure for three quarters of the journey so they chose that instead.

edit: Sorry, belatedly noticed your point about elevated systems. Agreed, but they don't have to be monorails. Despite Batman Begins, Gotham's system, had it used birail, would have been much more flexible, and maybe would not have become the slum service depicted - mind you that's one of my favourite films.
 
Last edited:
Cochise said:
It has the same fundamental problem as monorails and the LEV - no easy way of changing tracks. The only working commercial monorail is in Wuppertal and that city has a unique geographic challenge which makes the limitations of the monorail acceptable.

The US has a perfectly good railway system - it just needs to put some passenger trains on it. Call them 'self charging hybrids' to satisfy the greenies. (Diesel-Electrics - what we have been running since the 1940's, actually)
Click to expand...
 
Monstrosa said:
Click to expand...
That seems to be a perfectly good illustration of why monorails are generally daft. They could have built exactly the same system as a rack birail without all the silly complications. The Listowel and Ballybunion railway illustrated exactly the same problems more than 100 years ago - why don't we learn?

 
While we are on the same tack - 'self charging hybrid' = Petrol electric. Only been around for a 100 years or so. I'll stick to my my straight petrol vehicle, thank you - it hasn't got to haul around the weight of the batteries or to lose efficiency charging same. Conservation of energy, folks.

I'm trying not to be cynical about the gullibility of the human race but it gets harder every day.
 
Cochise said:
I do think monorail type systems - of which the hyperloop is one - can have advantages in specific circumstances. But a typical commuter system is awful for that type of technology - you have people from dozens - maybe hundreds - of suburbs converging on a central hub. ...
Click to expand...

Well, no ...

The hyperloop concept isn't just another monorail scheme. A monorail is defined by its use of a single track / rail rather than the classic pair of rails. The hyperloop concept is based on suspending the traveling pod within a tube containing a (near-) vacuum to eliminate air resistance. A monorail is essentially conventional rail / train tech using a single rail (hence the name). A hyperloop uses mag-lev or air cushions to suspend the traveling pod(s), and some designs don't involve structured tracks or rails at all. Those that do have been conceptualized as using dual tracks or guides as often as a single one.

A monorail can be 'exposed' in the open air like any other train. A hyperloop system is by definition fully enclosed, because the tube is effectively a component of the propulsion system.

The hyperloop concept is explicitly proposed for supporting long-distance high-speed transportation. It's neither suited nor promoted for shorter distance applications such as (e.g.) metro area commuting.

If you folks want to talk about monorails I'll be happy to set up a monorails thread.
 
EnolaGaia said:
Well, no ...

The hyperloop concept isn't just another monorail scheme. A monorail is defined by its use of a single track / rail rather than the classic pair of rails. The hyperloop concept is based on suspending the traveling pod within a tube containing a (near-) vacuum to eliminate air resistance. A monorail is essentially conventional rail / train tech using a single rail (hence the name). A hyperloop uses mag-lev or air cushions to suspend the traveling pod(s), and some designs don't involve structured tracks or rails at all. Those that do have been conceptualized as using dual tracks or guides as often as a single one.

A monorail can be 'exposed' in the open air like any other train. A hyperloop system is by definition fully enclosed, because the tube is effectively a component of the propulsion system.

The hyperloop concept is explicitly proposed for supporting long-distance high-speed transportation. It's neither suited nor promoted for shorter distance applications such as (e.g.) metro area commuting.

If you folks want to talk about monorails I'll be happy to set up a monorails thread.
Click to expand...
OK, I was insufficiently clear. The Hyperloop suffers the same limitations as a monorail or Maglev system. I didn't mean it actually has a single rail.

Those limitations do not mean it is useless, but it does mean it is no replacement of or serious competitor with a conventional birail system.
 
Cochise said:
OK, I was insufficiently clear. The Hyperloop suffers the same limitations as a monorail or Maglev system. I didn't mean it actually has a single rail.

Those limitations do not mean it is useless, but it does mean it is no replacement of or serious competitor with a conventional birail system.
Click to expand...
I think it's like electric cars, aimed at a niche demographic. People with pots of money to burn.
 
Cochise said:
... Those limitations do not mean it is useless, but it does mean it is no replacement of or serious competitor with a conventional birail system.
Click to expand...

For general purpose usage, I agree ... The hyperloop concept has been promoted as a high-speed alternative to airline flights and cross-country rail transport. The concept's attractiveness is proportional to the distances it's proposed to cover.
 
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