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Magick: Whether & If So How It Works

Coastaljames said:
Then that famous person was massively, massively wrong.
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I've spent many many years involved with the occult, and can say for myself that magick does work, simply because I've done it from a young age, and continue to practice to this day and it works for me, and I get results. I have no interest in proving it to anyone, the first reason being that I have no energy to expel in attempting to change another persons beliefs, and secondly, as I've done this in the past and have witnessed a woman have a complete mental break down. It's as though some people have such fixed and rigidly personalised concepts of the world around them, and that if you do something in-front of them that destroys their preconceived notions of their world then that person can experience some intensely traumatic psychological breakdown, and then there's the other group who when confronted with a supernatural act which they simple can't cope with they rather than fall in on themselves psychologically they thrust out and act violently or become uncharacteristically aggressive, I've experienced cases where the witness even acts aggressively to friends, family and loved ones.

I just reminded myself of a scene in Clive Barker's 1995 film, Lord of Illusions where in this particular scene the dialogue between the two main characters goes like this:

''At the end... when we had him
cornered, he got into my head. He
showed me what we really look like,
when the veneer's gone. Jelly.
Shit...'' "And you believed him?"

''I saw it with my own fucking eyes!
See, that's his best trick. No
illusions. Just the truth.''
(he looks at Harry)
''Are you ready for that?''
Harry grabs the brandy bottle from Swann.
Harry drinks.
''Thought not.''
 
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Coal said:
Let's hear the details then.
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I genuinely don't think it would be a good use of my time to try and convince you that my experience of practising magic has proved, to me, that it "works". I would be concerned that you would be trying to refute and rebuke everything I say on the matter. I think, if you are curious rather than cynical, it would be more useful for you to have a try yourself. It's really not that hard to start and I guarantee you would have some results that surprise and intrigue you.

Magic does work. There is a reason that it has been practised by every culture throughout every epoch of history across every continent on the planet. It may well be considered to be the most widespread and continuous human endeavor on the planet. These people have not been wasting their time.
 
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Heckler20 said:
Lee was the master of making himself more interesting than he actually was. Looks like he got most of this from a combination of the News of the World and Dennis Wheatley.
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Yup, 's'bollocks innit. You can hear him making it up as he goes along.
I put it on last night at bedtime and drifted off to it, and slept soundly. :D
 
If magic works at all, how does it work?
I'm thinking, how did anybody find out which words, rituals, thoughts etc. had a magical effect in the first place?

Did some poor sap sit in a darkened room pronouncing made-up shit out loud for years and years until something happened? If words have a magical effect on the world, do they work in some way like commands used to program a computer? And...if that's how it works...maybe that does mean we live in The Matrix?
 
I'd like to hear an example of something you can do with magic.
 
Mythopoeika said:
Please expound on those ideas, James - thanks.
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I'm not sure this is the place to be honest. I feel it would draw me into a kind of adversarial situation with me being forced to defend what I'm talking about. I don't feel I want to do that. I have nothing to try to sell and no interest in changing what others think. I think you're asking with genuine intentions and I appreciate that. I fear others are more cynical.

Happy to engage in a private conversation when the time is right for both of us- if you'd be interested.
 
Mythopoeika said:
If magic works at all, how does it work?
I'm thinking, how did anybody find out which words, rituals, thoughts etc. had a magical effect in the first place?

Did some poor sap sit in a darkened room pronouncing made-up shit out loud for years and years until something happened? If words have a magical effect on the world, do they work in some way like commands used to program a computer? And...if that's how it works...maybe that does mean we live in The Matrix?
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An old friend of mine told me once how he had a theory that the correct pronunciation of ancient Hebrew has been lost because to speak certain words or to speak it with specific level of intent could cause direct changes to happen. I don't know if he was on to anything but it was an interesting idea nonetheless.

I don't do much ritual magick anymore but I know that magickal words are added to the operational formula for psycho-alchemical reasons, I mean to trick your own sub-conscious into thinking your safe and have a level of control over the entities/spirits you're dealing with, a prime example would be the Goëtia. Often ritual words of power are chosen specifically because they have certain correspondences within gematria. An old technique used in the O.M. was to use some really weird language like Esperanto for a word and make sure the translation or original had a gematric correspondence that was pertinent to the ritual or working at hand, almost like spoken word sigilisation.
 
Coastaljames said:
I genuinely don't think it would be a good use of my time to try and convince you that my experience of practising magic has proved, to me, that it "works".
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Why not? I'm open to be convinced that there is an effect at work here. I consider myself a sceptic, rather than a 'skeptic'.

I'll test before I decide something is real or not.

Coastaljames said:
I would be concerned that you would be trying to refute and rebuke everything I say on the matter. I think, if you are curious rather than cynical, it would be more useful for you to have a try yourself. It's really not that hard to start and I guarantee you would have some results that surprise and intrigue you.
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So, in the first place, I'm not planning to rebuke per se. I'm willing to be surprised and intrigued. I wouldn't be posting here otherwise.

Any effect generated by a set of conditions, in order to be a 'real thing' should be able to stand critical analysis. So it should be possible to replicate conditions and actions and verify repeatable results.

Whether this is 'magic' or something else, is not relevant to a reasonable evaluation.

Coastaljames said:
Magic does work.
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So why not give us the tools to prove it to ourselves or to others.

Coastaljames said:
There is a reason that it has been practised by every culture throughout every epoch of history across every continent on the planet. It may well be considered to be the most widespread and continuous human endeavor on the planet. These people have not been wasting their time.
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Respectfully, and exposing myself to claims of 'skeptism', that people have practised something since the dawn of time, does not make it true or logical, only that people have behaved in a certain way since the dawn of time.

This is not so much weight of evidence as weight of repeating behaviour. It certainly doesn't show they haven't been wasting their time.

I'll wait for you to provide us with something I can be surprised and intrigued by.
 
Coal said:
I'll test before I decide something is real or not.
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Entirely my suggestion :) Have a go at it :)

Coal said:
So why not give us the tools to prove it to ourselves or to others.
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You can google I assume? Lots of places to start...er...why not havr a crack at some of Spare's Sigil Magick- super easy, undemanding - http://disinfo.com/2012/12/a-beginners-guide-to-sigil-craft/

Once you start practising you can then subject it to your critical analysis techinique. Then you'll decide wether or not it "proves" itself for you.

Coal said:
I'll wait for you to provide us with something I can be surprised and intrigued by.
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Really- you'll be waiting a long, long time before the day I can convince you. Try yourself, it's the only way :)
 
Xanatic* said:
I'd like to hear an example of something you can do with magic.
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I know you were replying to CJ Xanatic* but from my own experience an example of what I can personally do would need a long list, simply because magick can be applied in myriad of different situations. I try to keep the little energy I have for helping people nowadays, especially family. But a nastier example would be how to kill someone by manipulating a series of otherwise natural events instigated and synchronised by the force and ripples created by a single ritual. That particular piece of magick or curse was taught to me by my grandfather who was Romani. But a much better example would be when my father had a second stroke and a fall in the garden, as he was lying motionless on the ground I automatically placed my right palm over his head and he was fine after a few minutes. He kept saying ''why are his hands so hot?''. This I continue to use but it leaves me feeling sick and ill, if my younger sister or wife ever hurt themselves somehow or have pain I will use it then, at first my wife was frightened as she has no experience or interest in the occult but now she accepts and respects it.

Another example is precognition, but that's more random and completely erratic, as soon as you try to control it it stops. I think Mytho might remember my prediction of vast forest fires a couple years back on the forum, that came true apparently a couple of months later.
 
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Coastaljames said:
Entirely my suggestion :) Have a go at it :)

You can google I assume?
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Patronising...

Coastaljames said:
Lots of places to start...er...why not havr a crack at some of Spare's Sigil Magick- super easy, undemanding - http://disinfo.com/2012/12/a-beginners-guide-to-sigil-craft/
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...but OK, I'll try it. I note though there are many area where the results could be indistinguishable from confirmation bias and it's arguable that 'others true will' might stop almost anything you wish for from working.

I'll think on it for a day or two to come up with something to wish for that might be free of either of those things.

Coastaljames said:
Once you start practising you can then subject it to your critical analysis techinique. Then you'll decide wether or not it "proves" itself for you.
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They're not 'my' critical analysis techniques, they're 'critical analysis techniques'. They're not personal nor application specific.

Coastaljames said:
Really- you'll be waiting a long, long time before the day I can convince you.
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In this you are entirely wrong. I am open to be convinced you only had to do a good job of it! Dinna fash, I'll tell you if it 'worked' for me.
 
FrKadash said:
Another example is precognition, but that's more random and completely erratic, as soon as you try to control it it stops. I think Mytho might remember my prediction of vast forest fires a couple years back on the forum, that came true apparently a couple of months later.
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I have an exceptionally poor memory, sorry.
 
Coal said:
Patronising...
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A little, maybe, I apologise. Was written with a smile. But jesting aside, there is a myriad of places you can learn some techniques from in this modern day of IT :)

Coal said:
I'll think on it for a day or two to come up with something to wish for that might be free of either of those things.
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That's an excellent plan. Taking this seriosuly I see, good work ;)

Coal said:
They're not 'my' critical analysis techniques, they're 'critical analysis techniques'. They're not personal nor application specific.
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Semantics...that's fine...ok...test them against criticial analysis techniques :) However - never be suprised if you test a dog to determine if it's a dog using a technique to determine if it's a cat and it fails :)

Coal said:
I am open to be convinced you only had to do a good job of it!
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Well, I didn't have to do anything. But yes- much better for you to experiment yourself I'd say :)
 
I try to keep the little energy I have for helping people nowadays, especially family. But a nastier example would be how to kill someone by manipulating a series of otherwise natural events instigated and synchronised by the force and ripples created by a single ritual.
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Well, that escalated quickly!
 
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A magician- yesterday.
 
FrKadash said:
Have you ever tried to perform a magickal formula dr wu?
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No...I have not.
I did know several people who did many years ago and from what they told me nothing transpired.
But then I'd imagine that 'believers' would say , 'well..they just didn't do it correctly'. ;)

But I would like someone who did have a 'successful event' tell me what magic was actually accomplished.
That would be...interesting.
 
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