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I was wondering about the name Schreck. There was a Max Schreck, a German actor best known for his portrayal of Count Orlok in the 1922 film Nosferatu by FW Murnau.
He's the (former?) husband of Anton LaVey's Daughter, Zeena Schreck. They used to have a goth band called Radio Werewolf and are involved with the far-right side of the occult.
 
the issue is addressed in the ( to put it mildly ) unflattering article posted up-thread :


Brian King spread the word that Shreck wasn’t a Nazi at all, but was in fact a nice, Jewish boy from Encino. His father was the prosperous owner of a chain of furniture stores. And Schrek’s real name was Barry Dubin. Shreck fumed that it wasn’t true, just a vicious lie spread to discredit him by “his enemies”. A guy who had previously been in an earlier band with Schrek cornered him in the toilet of a Hollywood club and pummeled him with his fists. The assailant was Jewish and had a tattoo of a star of David and the slogan, “Never Again!” Shreck, now a laughing stock, left Los Angeles, and fled to San Francisco. The rumors followed him. As pathetic as most Nazis are, what could be more pathetic than a Jewish Nazi? A Jewish Nazi is like a sad clown, the last word in pitiful. Shreck’s attempt to veil his Jewishness by adopting a Germanic name, that of silent movie actor Max Shreck, has an irony unknown even to Nikolas. IN Germany, the name Shreck is limited almost exclusively to Jews.
 
the issue is addressed in the ( to put it mildly ) unflattering article posted up-thread :


Brian King spread the word that Shreck wasn’t a Nazi at all, but was in fact a nice, Jewish boy from Encino. His father was the prosperous owner of a chain of furniture stores. And Schrek’s real name was Barry Dubin. Shreck fumed that it wasn’t true, just a vicious lie spread to discredit him by “his enemies”. A guy who had previously been in an earlier band with Schrek cornered him in the toilet of a Hollywood club and pummeled him with his fists. The assailant was Jewish and had a tattoo of a star of David and the slogan, “Never Again!” Shreck, now a laughing stock, left Los Angeles, and fled to San Francisco. The rumors followed him. As pathetic as most Nazis are, what could be more pathetic than a Jewish Nazi? A Jewish Nazi is like a sad clown, the last word in pitiful. Shreck’s attempt to veil his Jewishness by adopting a Germanic name, that of silent movie actor Max Shreck, has an irony unknown even to Nikolas. IN Germany, the name Shreck is limited almost exclusively to Jews.
A Jewish Nazi is like a sad clown, the last word in pitiful.
Quite so. Truer words were never spoken
 
He's the (former?) husband of Anton LaVey's Daughter, Zeena Schreck. They used to have a goth band called Radio Werewolf and are involved with the far-right side of the occult.
Would that be the same Radio Werewolf that were featured in the 80's U.S. comedy film Mortuary Academy I wonder ?

 
London-Lecture--768x461.jpg

well that was interesting - thanks to Mr Schreck for an entertaining talk
 
It was I guess a very summarised version of the now many years in the writing monumental book The Manson File – my copy of which he kindly autographed

He re-called how he first got insight into the “real” Manson story in London when he met the actor Ferdy Mayne who had worked for Polanski on the Fearless Vampire Killers.

His version then is then very much based on a lot of what was known at the time amongst the Hollywood inner-circle augmented by many years piecing together corroboration & communicating with Manson in prison & gaining his trust. It demystifys a lot of the “cult” angle & completely rejects the idea of Helter Skelter as any sort of actual motive.

This de-bunking however in no way lessened the rather gripping fascination of the story – which he recounted for well over 2 & a half hours with no notes, no hesitation or repetition & with a considerable weight of plausibility & authority.

In person his presence reminded me a bit of Yannis Varoufakis & in the course of his reflections professed what seemed to me quite sincerely held Bhuddist beliefs.

So basically the Family’s criminal exploits boiled down to one word – drugs.

Drugs was both the catalyst for the violence & the common factor that brought together the Hollywood elite & the underground – in particular Jay Sebring who was acting as Hollywood’s “candyman” whom all the major figures in that society dealt with. Hair salons are (still) a great front for distributing illicit shit to a well heeled clientele.

As such the Tate incident in particular forms a continuum to the Family’s previous violent confrontations with Gary Hinman & Bernard Crowe. There are probably 6 or 7 scenarios as to the LaBiancas but they maybe owed money to the Mafia

Tex Watson had been ripping off other people involved in the drug scene for money / drugs. The Tate atrocity was meant to be a big score – esp of a fresh batch of LSD. Word was out that this batch was available & many figures ( some of whom have dined out on the story of how they could have been at the house that night for a “party”) were planning to go round to sample it – including Steve McQueen. He mentioned that Steven Parent was in on it & he believes he let the Manson crew into the property.

Also in that milieu was Polanksi’s hanger-on Voytek Frykowski who was trying to go into business as a dealer in the drug MDA with little rich girl Abigail Folger providing the seed-money to fund his efforts

Linda Kasabian was basically a drug dealer who orbited in Manson's milieu, not a family member as such.

Watson & Atkins were freaked out on speed – hence the atrocious violence meted out. Sebring liked kinky sex & quite possibly had contact with Susan Atkins amongst other hippie-chicks. This was examined as a motive early on in the case.

Various parties cleared Sebring's dwelling of the evidence of his narcotics side-line before Police arrived & also visited the Cielo Drive site before Police arrived on the scene

Straight Satans acted as strong arm / hit men for the Mafia

Helter Skelter myth was constructed as a veil over all the above & Bugliosi put on the case to make it stick.

Scientolgists created the "fake news" of the involvement of the Process Church – as picked up by the Ed Sanders book in order to deflect negative publicity about Manson's contcts with Scientology whilst in Prison & to damage a rival organisation.

Manson's beliefs basically that of the uncompromising criminal code of honour, Scots-Irish feuding background , Christian upbringing – with no time for “Satanism” as such. He compared him to the character in Herman Hesse's Demian

As a celebrity with a following he was victimised in prison & extorted for money

There was more…wish I’d thought to switch my phone to record although it might have gone into meltdown before events finally concluded.
 
Apologies if I've already posted this, I might have done .. the mighty 'The Woo' visits Spahn Ranch .. or what's left of it anyway ..

 
With these procedures and protections for the accused in place, miscarriages of justice sometime do happen, but they are not commonplace. Such cases as Derek Bentley and Timothy Evans in the UK come to mind and some question the guilt of these two men.

Sorry to go back to such an old post. But at the time Derek Bentley was judicially murdered (there is no other realistic description if you look in to the case) there were in fact few safeguards in place. The conviction of Timothy Evans was flawed, but of course the police couldn't imagine that there was an undetected serial killer living in the same house.

The Derek Bentley case was without doubt the most influential in getting the death penalty banned in the UK. I doubt it will be ever restored with the number of miscarriages of justice we have had since it was abolished, which would have resulted in a dozen or more innocent people being killed in the last 40 years.
 
Manson: The Lost Tapes

ITV’s Crime & Punishment season continues with this two-part series made with exclusive access to 100 hours of original footage, to include unseen and rarely-viewed interviews, revealing the terrifying truth of life inside the Manson family. Thursday 27th September at 9pm on ITV.
 
I hope they show a Sharon Tate documentary after it, for balance.
 
Apologies if I've already posted this, I might have done .. the mighty 'The Woo' visits Spahn Ranch .. or what's left of it anyway ..


We saw that. It's all overgrown, could be anywhere until you're shown concrete fittings or summat. Creepy.
 
We saw that. It's all overgrown, could be anywhere until you're shown concrete fittings or summat. Creepy.
I sometimes wonder how George Sphan felt (have I got his name correct?), the old guy who was renting the place to the Manson family hippies when he found out they were outlaw murderers ..

I bought a 60's pine wood caravan in about '92 just so I could have somewhere private to crash with my then girlfriend. The caravan cost me £70 and I paid the old lady who owned the farm £20 a week rent. Other than that, this was the early 90's so behind her farm was full of caravans and buses all being permanently lived in by new age travellers, outlaws etc .. no murderers that I know of but loads of weed, LSD etc was floating about.
 
I sometimes wonder how George Sphan felt (have I got his name correct?), the old guy who was renting the place to the Manson family hippies when he found out they were outlaw murderers ..
Spahn.
 
California parole board's decision to release a follower of cult leader Charles Manson has been overturned.
The follower, Leslie Van Houten, was 19 years old at the time of the infamous Manson murders in 1969.
Now aged 69, the youngest member of the Manson cult is currently serving a life sentence in a California prison for her role in the killings.
Her reported good behaviour and rehabilitation in prison led to a parole board recommending her release earlier this year, but this was overturned on Monday by California governor Gavin Newsom.


https://news.sky.com/story/release-...er-overturned-by-california-governor-11734705
 
California parole board's decision to release a follower of cult leader Charles Manson has been overturned.
The follower, Leslie Van Houten, was 19 years old at the time of the infamous Manson murders in 1969.
Now aged 69, the youngest member of the Manson cult is currently serving a life sentence in a California prison for her role in the killings.
Her reported good behaviour and rehabilitation in prison led to a parole board recommending her release earlier this year, but this was overturned on Monday by California governor Gavin Newsom.


https://news.sky.com/story/release-...er-overturned-by-california-governor-11734705


This must be really difficult. I mean on the one hand she was a 19 year old, swept up in a cult which has to have played a part in her actions. She's served a 50 year prison term so far.

But ultimately she did stab a guy to death then calmly take a drink from his store.

Is she sorry for this? Is she stable? Does she regret her actions or show any element of comprehension over what she did? No mention of that.
 
This must be really difficult. I mean on the one hand she was a 19 year old, swept up in a cult which has to have played a part in her actions. She's served a 50 year prison term so far.

But ultimately she did stab a guy to death then calmly take a drink from his store.

Is she sorry for this? Is she stable? Does she regret her actions or show any element of comprehension over what she did? No mention of that.

I presume that regret, remorse and having an insight into the consequences for the victims family would all have been assessed by the Parole Board.
 
I presume that regret, remorse and having an insight into the consequences for the victims family would all have been assessed by the Parole Board.

You would expect. If they genuinely fear that releasing her would be of a danger to the public (and don't just want to avoid the PR nightmare it could easily be) then you would have to assume that is why the decision was overturned.
 
You would expect. If they genuinely fear that releasing her would be of a danger to the public (and don't just want to avoid the PR nightmare it could easily be) then you would have to assume that is why the decision was overturned.

It was overturned by the Governor. Likely for political reasons rather than any fear of her being a danger to the public.
 
It was overturned by the Governor. Likely for political reasons rather than any fear of her being a danger to the public.

'Can we just avoid a PR hassle? It's a lot of work for just one convict. Now can I get back to golf course?'

Well, that's kinda where my mind goes.

I mean it's a little more than that. She is a murderer. But a justice system should also seek to reform. At 19 we're all more than a little susceptible to making poor choices. Most of which, thankfully, aren't as batshit crazy as believing you have to kill people in order to start a race war in order to secure the future safety of humankind. But you'd have to hope that was taken into proper consideration.
 
Mark Chapman believed that he would have been released years a go, had it not been John Lennon he murdered.You wonder if he is right. On the other hand mental illness and murder is not as clear cut as if you were to go down the criminal justice route.If people murder/seriously injure people and go to jail, then they may get out sooner than someone who has been sent to a secure hospital.Showing remorse is key to parole or discharge. Difficult to show remorse perhaps if you are unwell at time of the crime or if you have an anti or dis social personality disorder. Within the ranks of the Manson Family I would imagine there to be a great deal of personality disorders, mental illness and drug abuse. Ripe for manipulation.
 
Gotta wonder how she would cope outside, going in from a cult aged 19 and then coming out over 50 years later, if it ever happens.


Yes. That would be one hell of a culture shock. Imprisoned before the peak of the TV age, let alone the online age. The world has changed immeasurably. Culture, technology, the value of money. Everything.
 
Mark Chapman believed that he would have been released years a go, had it not been John Lennon he murdered.You wonder if he is right. On the other hand mental illness and murder is not as clear cut as if you were to go down the criminal justice route.If people murder/seriously injure people and go to jail, then they may get out sooner than someone who has been sent to a secure hospital.Showing remorse is key to parole or discharge. Difficult to show remorse perhaps if you are unwell at time of the crime or if you have an anti or dis social personality disorder. Within the ranks of the Manson Family I would imagine there to be a great deal of personality disorders, mental illness and drug abuse. Ripe for manipulation.


I'd agree. People like Manson attract a certain kind of individual to them. And more often than not it is vulnerable, damaged people, who get taken advantage of. People less likely to question if what the collective believes as truth is grounded in fact.
 
Many years before the internet, I was fascinated with this case and have read many books on it (some of which are now considered untrue accounts). Of course we have so much more information now so it's often even more difficult to distinguish the facts from the fiction. However, I do think that William Garretson was one of the more stranger characters in this whole terrible saga. He admitted years later that he had heard the screams of Abigail Folger despite telling the police he had heard nothing as he was 'listening to music', (yet the door was open and in his testimony he stated that the music was on low volume). The dogs barked/the dogs didn't bark- he couldn't remember if he wore a coat when he hitched down to Sunset- Steve Parent (who he had only met briefly once before) visited, (unannounced) at 11.45pm....?
 
Mark Chapman believed that he would have been released years a go, had it not been John Lennon he murdered.You wonder if he is right. On the other hand mental illness and murder is not as clear cut as if you were to go down the criminal justice route.If people murder/seriously injure people and go to jail, then they may get out sooner than someone who has been sent to a secure hospital.Showing remorse is key to parole or discharge. Difficult to show remorse perhaps if you are unwell at time of the crime or if you have an anti or dis social personality disorder. Within the ranks of the Manson Family I would imagine there to be a great deal of personality disorders, mental illness and drug abuse. Ripe for manipulation.

Chapman wasn't considered mentally ill and fit to stand trial for murder.
 
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