Timeslip At Waterloo Station?

[Carl Grove]

In regards to Timeslips where someone sees a shop from the past: Has anyone managed to purchase something or get something as evidence of the time trip before returning?

There are a few: the famous case of Mr Squirrel, who purchased some plastic envelopes in a paper bag. In a short time the paper bag had rotted and the plastic bags also aged rapidly. In a couple of US cases witnesses have bought Coca Cola. I think the bottles were thrown away when empty. There are more cases of people who have had meals at cafes and restaurants that no longer existed at that time, but unfortunately the evidence was somewhere in their digestive systems by the time they realised what had happened.

 

[genex17]

Interesting. I do wonder if the currency ever raised eyebrows, paying for stationery with money that w

There are a few: the famous case of Mr Squirrel, who purchased some plastic envelopes in a paper bag. In a short time the paper bag had rotted and the plastic bags also aged rapidly. In a couple of US cases witnesses have bought Coca Cola. I think the bottles were thrown away when empty. There are more cases of people who have had meals at cafes and restaurants that no longer existed at that time, but unfortunately the evidence was somewhere in their digestive systems by the time they realised what had happened.

I chased down Mr. Squirrel's story. Odd that his currency didn't cause problems. Even a receipt might prove interesting.

Plastic envelopes (1920s) and a store clerk in an Edwardian dress. Well, amazing if it did happen.

 

[henry]

the receipts have a habit of being squirelled away, never to be found

 

[CuriousIdent]

the receipts have a habit of being squirelled away, never to be found

I know that this seems to have reached almost meme status on here (mostly on the back of the Transdimensional Gas Station thread, and the elusive receipt the poster claimed to have kept for years but never posted proof of) but I think it is worth noting that very, very few people do keep receipts of purchase unless it's for an item which is vastly expensive or is plausible to require returning.

Electrical equipment, for example.

Unless you think to yourself 'I need to keep this, in case it breaks down' generally that receipt goes straight in the bin.

I can understand the logic that 'if something weird happened to you don't you think you'd keep a memento from it?' But having sifted through a number of examples of supposed timeslips in the main Time and Dimensional Slips thread one thing which seems to be a recurring detail is that quite often people who *have* had these kind of experiences don't realise that what they have been through is odd until much later.

For example the Avignon Hotel case, which once appeared on ITVs Strange But True? In which the concept that the two couples had stayed overnight in a hotel from the past did not occur to them until long after they had tried to find the same hotel on the return leg of their journey, been unable, and returned home to the UK.

Unless you happen to be a compulsive hoarder it isn't always going to be very likely that you keep hold of items such as receipts.

 

[Carl Grove]

Interesting. I do wonder if the currency ever raised eyebrows, paying for stationery with money that w


I chased down Mr. Squirrel's story. Odd that his currency didn't cause problems. Even a receipt might prove interesting.

Plastic envelopes (1920s) and a store clerk in an Edwardian dress. Well, amazing if it did happen.

Plastic has been around a lot longer than we think. Although we tend to assume that all ladies switched from Edwardian styles in 1920, I suspect that it took a while longer than that for dresses to shorten, so a date in the early 20s wouldn't be impossible. No mention of a receipt. Although we all agree that Joan Forman could have done a better job investigating this case, the impression I get is of a wholly sincere, bewildered old gentleman, totally floored by his experience.

 

[Carl Grove]

I know that this seems to have reached almost meme status on here (mostly on the back of the Transdimensional Gas Station thread, and the elusive receipt the poster claimed to have kept for years but never posted proof of) but I think it is worth noting that very, very few people do keep receipts of purchase unless it's for an item which is vastly expensive or is plausible to require returning.

Electrical equipment, for example.

Unless you think to yourself 'I need to keep this, in case it breaks down' generally that receipt goes straight in the bin.

I can understand the logic that 'if something weird happened to you don't you think you'd keep a memento from it?' But having sifted through a number of examples of supposed timeslips in the main Time and Dimensional Slips thread one thing which seems to be a recurring detail is that quite often people who *have* had these kind of experiences don't realise that what they have been through is odd until much later.

For example the Avignon Hotel case, which once appeared on ITVs Strange But True? In which the concept that the two couples had stayed overnight in a hotel from the past did not occur to them until long after they had tried to find the same hotel on the return leg of their journey, been unable, and returned home to the UK.

Unless you happen to be a compulsive hoarder it isn't always going to be very likely that you keep hold of items such as receipts.

Even when I want to retain receipts I generally end up losing them!

 

[Carl Grove]

It's interesting trying to view that area on Google Streetview.

As I posted in Time and Dimensional Slips thread the Regent Palace hotel exist only in frontage now, with a large commercial complex behind it. Parts of it are now shops others parts office space.

The building work was completed at some point on 2008, but if you try and progress through the area on Sreetview you'll switch between images from different years.

October 2008:

View attachment 7668
View attachment 7669

With construction work still underway. To August 2016:

View attachment 7670
View attachment 7671

In which we can see the UGG logo on the frontage of the former hotel.

And the other side of that archway (Regent Street side) September this year (2017):

View attachment 7672

I suppose it depends on how good a set of images the Google Car picks up.

But one thing of note from those.

Check out the door NumberNine mentioned, between the 2008 and 2016 images. Not just different paint jobs. Those look like different doors. So it certainly looks like that door has seen some use in the decade. Hard to say if belongs to the luggage store next door or belongs to part of the underground network though.

Here's a possibly relevant source of information:

 

[Mythopoeika]

Plastic has been around a lot longer than we think.

Not only that, but cellophane has been used for a long time (since 1912). It looks like plastic and has many of the same uses (well, OK, I suppose it is a kind of plastic).

 

[Carl Grove]

Not only that, but cellophane has been used for a long time (since 1912). It looks like plastic and has many of the same uses (well, OK, I suppose it is a kind of plastic).

I actually had a book on the history of plastics but it was a bit technical for me. However, the basic breakthrough came in the 1890s, if I recall.

 

[Mythopoeika]

I actually had a book on the history of plastics but it was a bit technical for me. However, the basic breakthrough came in the 1890s, if I recall.

That's probably nitrocellulose (Parkesine) that you're thinking of, or Bakelite (1907).

 

[XBergMann]

I know that this seems to have reached almost meme status on here (mostly on the back of the Transdimensional Gas Station thread, and the elusive receipt the poster claimed to have kept for years but never posted proof of) but I think it is worth noting that very, very few people do keep receipts of purchase unless it's for an item which is vastly expensive or is plausible to require returning.

Electrical equipment, for example.

Unless you think to yourself 'I need to keep this, in case it breaks down' generally that receipt goes straight in the bin.

I can understand the logic that 'if something weird happened to you don't you think you'd keep a memento from it?' But having sifted through a number of examples of supposed timeslips in the main Time and Dimensional Slips thread one thing which seems to be a recurring detail is that quite often people who *have* had these kind of experiences don't realise that what they have been through is odd until much later.

For example the Avignon Hotel case, which once appeared on ITVs Strange But True? In which the concept that the two couples had stayed overnight in a hotel from the past did not occur to them until long after they had tried to find the same hotel on the return leg of their journey, been unable, and returned home to the UK.

Unless you happen to be a compulsive hoarder it isn't always going to be very likely that you keep hold of items such as receipts.

So the thing to do if you believe you have suddenly entered a timeslip and gone back in time is go to the nearest shop and buy the biggest most expensive thing they have, a valve radiogram, a round black and white television or a triple expansion steam powered traction engine for example. As these are big purchases you will be more inclined to put the receipt somewhere safe and will then be able to scan it and post it here.

That was the mistake made by the transdimensional gas station bloke - he only bought something small.

 

[Dr_Baltar]

Plastic has been around a lot longer than we think.

That's certainly true. However, what's of relevance here is how long coin collectors have been using those small plastic wallets. I don't know for sure but suspect this is an innovation that doesn't date back that far. Vintage coin collecting albums I've seen are pages made of thick board with holes cut for the coins top be placed in. In the alleged case of Mr Squirrel, the more pertinent question would not have been when the company stopped manufacturing these envelopes, but rather when they started.

 

[NumberNine]

That's certainly true. However, what's of relevance here is how long coin collectors have been using those small plastic wallets. I don't know for sure but suspect this is an innovation that doesn't date back that far. Vintage coin collecting albums I've seen are pages made of thick board with holes cut for the coins top be placed in. In the alleged case of Mr Squirrel, the more pertinent question would not have been when the company stopped manufacturing these envelopes, but rather when they started.

That's a good point. A quick browse of a couple of coin collecting forums would suggest that paper envelopes were used for coins until Mylar/BoPET was invented in the mid-1950's. According to this guy;

"...it was in the late '30s when the popularity exploded. And at that time paper envelopes and coin folders were about all there were for coin storage. I cannot give you an exact date range, but I believe it was in the late '50s that coin flips were invented, might have been the early '60s though. Probably around the same time 2x2s came along. I can tell you that well into the '70s coin folders/albums and paper envelopes were far and away the most popular storage methods. And as time and technology went on plastic, and its benefits began to make its inroads. The US Mint issued its first hard plastic coin holders in 1968. And that was really the beginning of modern coin holders.
(Cited from: https://www.cointalk.com/threads/discussion-of-old-storage-supplies.208549/)

Edited to add from the same forum;

"In a 1945 issue they are selling 2X2 paper envelopes, one seller has some with a cellophane window, but apparently just on one side. A 1949 issue is also mostly 2X2 paper envelopes. There is one seller of a 2X2 holder which is a card you put the coin in which then slides into a 2X2 outer holder with acetate windows. I've flipped through bound volumes of the 1957 and 58 issues and found nothing, but most of the ads were removed from those before binding. I'll have to wait until I have a chance to go through my unbound copies. Maybe check as see what I can find in the old back issues of The Numismatist as well. Oh and that two piece holder I mentioned with the acetate windows. They were called Hollander holders and the windows were tradenamed "Kodapak". That may be what longnine was thinking of." (Cited from: https://www.cointalk.com/threads/discussion-of-old-storage-supplies.208549/page-2)

This guy might be worth asking;

"David Lange of NGC has quite a collection of the coin boards from the 30's & 40's. I believe he wrote a book about them." (Cited from: https://www.cointalk.com/threads/discussion-of-old-storage-supplies.208549/page-2)

 

[Carl Grove]

Worth noting what Joan Forman says about this issue:

"Like many amateur numismatists, he [Mr Squirrel] uses small plastic envelopes in which to keep individual coins, and his local village shop is not always able to supply these.... he went to a certain shop he had heard of [in Great Yarmouth] which sold this type of goods. The place was a general stationers, and old-established..." [Forman emphasizes that the witness had never been there before.]

Maybe in 1973 UK coin collectors were more likely to use plastic coin envelopes than US (which I suspect the quote comes from).

The shop assistant told Squirrel that the plastic envelopes she sold him were used by fishermen to keep hooks in.

 

[Dr_Baltar]

Maybe in 1973 UK coin collectors were more likely to use plastic coin envelopes than US (which I suspect the quote comes from).

We aren't concerned with what coin collectors used in 1973 are we, but rather what they used in Edwardian times? I'd hazard they didn't use plastic envelopes, either in the UK or the US. Nor would I expect fishermen of that time to use them.

 

[MorningAngel]

Where did you get your account of Mr S? All the ones I’ve read said he went to buy envelopes, not that they were coin envelopes.

 

[Carl Grove]

We aren't concerned with what coin collectors used in 1973 are we, but rather what they used in Edwardian times? I'd hazard they didn't use plastic envelopes, either in the UK or the US. Nor would I expect fishermen of that time to use them.

If the slip was to ca 1920 they might well have had plastic envelopes. The remark about fishermen does seem odd, but that is what the witness said the assistant said. To be precise, "He remarked on the number [of envelopes] and the assistant replied, 'We sell a lot of these to men on the sailing-ships to put fish-hooks in.'"

 

[Carl Grove]

Where did you get your account of Mr S? All the ones I’ve read said he went to buy envelopes, not that they were coin envelopes.

The original source is:
Joan Forman, The Mask of Time, McDonald and Jane, 1978. Mine is the Corgi edition of 1981, pp.54-9.

 

[Mythopoeika]

What about waxed paper? It looks a bit like plastic and has been around for donkey's years.

 

[NumberNine]

If the slip was to ca 1920 they might well have had plastic envelopes. The remark about fishermen does seem odd, but that is what the witness said the assistant said. To be precise, "He remarked on the number [of envelopes] and the assistant replied, 'We sell a lot of these to men on the sailing-ships to put fish-hooks in.'"

Interesting detail that. So despite the fact that he purchased them for the purpose of storing coins, the date plastic filps became available for coin collectors could be irrelevant if the envelopes she sold him were intended for a different purpose.

 

[Cochise]

Stations, ahh, stations. During various lonely and frustrated periods of my childhood, starting about 12, I used to bunk off school and hang about on stations. Usually buying an off peak ticket that would take me as far as I could go on my dinner money, or sometimes, having successfully flogged off some singles (vinyl) I'd get to the London stations for a day. Eventually I learned that various trips could be undertaken without tickets at all, e.g. Prittlewell to Paddington or Finsbury Park, changing on to the underground at Stratford. Once you got down on the underground you could go where you liked if you didn't actually want to leave the system, though it wasn't wise to go too far out of the centrer in case you were noticed on a relatively empty train. I'd head back for about normal getting home from school time. The parents never knew. Nor did the school, they were used to me having time off for my eye condition so I guess weren't as concerned as if anyone else had gone missing for a day - or maybe they were glad to be rid of me

In the 70's no-one took the slightest notice of a kid on a busy station, and I delved into all sorts of odd corners that could well spark off thoughts of timeslips - platform 17 at Kings Cross for example, now long gone - it was a wooden excursion platform by the headshunt for the loco yard. There was a signalbox under St Pancras station too, and various odd semi-disused parts of Paddington - the latter all now in full use. Blackfriars was another station virtually moribund outside of rush hours back then .

For whatever reason I used to feel very secure and consoled on those excursions, I think because stations are part of another world with much more clearly defined rules than the real world with which I was struggling. But maybe because of that 'thin' feeling mentioned above - that you were near to something that told you something about the universe. Whatever, such a trip would build me up for another few days of school.

Then about 16 I discovered pubs.

Sorry to ramble on - I'm trying to describe something I always felt was special about stations, especially the big London ones that retained a lot of their Victorian identity, and I realise I haven't got the words.

 

[henry]

well thats the first time ive felt the allure of trainspotting ...

 

[CuriousIdent]

Stations, ahh, stations. During various lonely and frustrated periods of my childhood, starting about 12, I used to bunk off school and hang about on stations. Usually buying an off peak ticket that would take me as far as I could go on my dinner money, or sometimes, having successfully flogged off some singles (vinyl) I'd get to the London stations for a day. Eventually I learned that various trips could be undertaken without tickets at all, e.g. Prittlewell to Paddington or Finsbury Park, changing on to the underground at Stratford. Once you got down on the underground you could go where you liked if you didn't actually want to leave the system, though it wasn't wise to go too far out of the centrer in case you were noticed on a relatively empty train. I'd head back for about normal getting home from school time. The parents never knew. Nor did the school, they were used to me having time off for my eye condition so I guess weren't as concerned as if anyone else had gone missing for a day - or maybe they were glad to be rid of me

In the 70's no-one took the slightest notice of a kid on a busy station, and I delved into all sorts of odd corners that could well spark off thoughts of timeslips - platform 17 at Kings Cross for example, now long gone - it was a wooden excursion platform by the headshunt for the loco yard. There was a signalbox under St Pancras station too, and various odd semi-disused parts of Paddington - the latter all now in full use. Blackfriars was another station virtually moribund outside of rush hours back then .

For whatever reason I used to feel very secure and consoled on those excursions, I think because stations are part of another world with much more clearly defined rules than the real world with which I was struggling. But maybe because of that 'thin' feeling mentioned above - that you were near to something that told you something about the universe. Whatever, such a trip would build me up for another few days of school.

Then about 16 I discovered pubs.

Sorry to ramble on - I'm trying to describe something I always felt was special about stations, especially the big London ones that retained a lot of their Victorian identity, and I realise I haven't got the words.

Nothing to be sorry about. I'm almost certain that some of us have talked about this subject similarly on other threads. Transport hubs of any kind have a certain... something to them. The energy of hundreds of people passing through them as part of their lives.

Sudden silences at stations can seem very eerie.

Entire sections of stations can be closed for decades before being reopened or demolished.

Some station houses go back centuries. A lot of history based through these kind of routes.

 

[AlchoPwn]

If the slip was to ca 1920 they might well have had plastic envelopes. The remark about fishermen does seem odd, but that is what the witness said the assistant said. To be precise, "He remarked on the number [of envelopes] and the assistant replied, 'We sell a lot of these to men on the sailing-ships to put fish-hooks in.'"

The issue here is plastic. In fact, the invention of cellophane was considerably earlier than most plastics and was in industrial production back in 1912 as opposed to the rest of the plastics industry which was essentially post WW2.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellophane

I hope that clears up this matter to your satisfaction. For a real surprise, have a look at when linoleum was invented:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linoleum

 

[Gambeir]

Am I helping now or not? Would really have been wonderful if they had some cell phone images to look at. Better still a newspaper.

They could have been anywhere in an alternative light cone. The troops are captured at Dunkirk instead of rescued, the Queen flees to Canada, Churchill prepares to fly to Berlin to surrender. Any possibility is possible. That history is just unknowable but it wasn't evidently the same one they came from.

 

[Dr_Baltar]

So....the timeslip at Waterloo Station?

 

[CuriousIdent]

So....the timeslip at Waterloo Station?

Yeah. Damndest thing!

I think it's a shame that the original poster doesn't appear to be around here these days, to talk more about it. For one I'd like to ask them more about the string or rope lines they described seeing during their experience.

Some folks mentioned the plausibility of them being part of some kind of installation art (and if so we would hope that there might be some kind of record of that). Others considered that if we were to go back a couple of centuries ropes suspended across tight spaces were rented out for the poor to sleep across. The ‘Two Penny Hangover’ – a Victorian Doss House concept.

Things which are visually seen or physically touched are what I personally find most interesting about these kind of experiences. Because those are more tangible. Far less open to interpretation.

For example, the original poster mentioned:

...the shift in atmosphere. From the normally bustling energy of Waterloo on a Saturday, it segued into a heavier depressing gloom.

Something which also seemed to echo in the behavior of other passengers:

Sitting across from us was a man who looked close to tears, red faced, breathing frantically, a really scared expression on his face. My boyfriend gave a surreptitious nod in his direction – the first clue I had that I wasn’t actually the only one experiencing something disquieting. Then my boyfriend whispered, "Look, him too," and there was another man further down the carriage who looked in fear of his life.

These kind of details are far more open to interpretation.

I'm sure we've all had points in our life where we think or feel 'I've got a really bad feeling about this'. But it doesn't necessarily mean anything unusual is going on. Likewise viewing the behavior and body language of others can also be subjective - Like how a seemingly neutral facial expression will always a be read as smile to some people, or sadness to others.

I'm not writing of the original poster, btw. I genuinely believe that is what she felt. But as to whether it relates directly to evidence of a potential timeslip is less likely in my opinion. Whereas other parts of her story possibly do.

 

[Gambeir]

Here CuriousIdent says;
"Things which are visually seen or physically touched are what I personally find most interesting about these kind of experiences. Because those are more tangible."

Touching things as a sensory validation to disbelief is almost innate. Now the ultimate would be to take something back with you like say a newpaper, but in dreams we never seem to think about taking something, or am I wrong here about this? Has anyone here ever tried to take something back from a dream? I do agree that touching is a greater validation.

I'm not sure you could bring something back with you, because it may just disintegrate in to thin air, but if you can get there and get back it stands to reason that you should also be able to take things back.

Another thing is this fog business and again CuriousIdent notes the original posters words which dovetail with this fog business; "it segued into a heavier depressing gloom." For some reason this ticks with my senses and I think it's because of the relationship here with fog.

Fog being so interestingly a descriptor to similar reports. However can we subscribe this to dreams or delusions? I'm not sure we can. Thoughts?

Thanks Carl for saying I'm right; which would be surprising if true. Quantum Physics isn't complete bunk but I also doubt it's all that it's been made out to be. If the half of it showed up on this forum it wouldn't last a half dozen pages with invisible holes popping in and out of existence. So it's kind of like people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Words influence the process of the mind, and quantum is such a word, as is skeptical and pseudo; Using critical as a descriptor of personal review avoids the closed door implied by skeptical, and quantum is mystical bordering on magical. Pseudo is automatically recognized as false. Good science doesn't employ slander to win converts.

 

[Carl Grove]

Here CuriousIdent says;
"Things which are visually seen or physically touched are what I personally find most interesting about these kind of experiences. Because those are more tangible."

Touching things as a sensory validation to disbelief is almost innate. Now the ultimate would be to take something back with you like say a newpaper, but in dreams we never seem to think about taking something, or am I wrong here about this? Has anyone here ever tried to take something back from a dream? I do agree that touching is a greater validation.

I'm not sure you could bring something back with you, because it may just disintegrate in to thin air, but if you can get there and get back it stands to reason that you should also be able to take things back.

Another thing is this fog business and again CuriousIdent notes the original posters words which dovetail with this fog business; "it segued into a heavier depressing gloom." For some reason this ticks with my senses and I think it's because of the relationship here with fog.

Fog being so interestingly a descriptor to similar reports. However can we subscribe this to dreams or delusions? I'm not sure we can. Thoughts?

Thanks Carl for saying I'm right; which would be surprising if true. Quantum Physics isn't complete bunk but I also doubt it's all that it's been made out to be. If the half of it showed up on this forum it wouldn't last a half dozen pages with invisible holes popping in and out of existence. So it's kind of like people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Words influence the process of the mind, and quantum is such a word, as is skeptical and pseudo; Using critical as a descriptor of personal review avoids the closed door implied by skeptical, and quantum is mystical bordering on magical. Pseudo is automatically recognized as false. Good science doesn't employ slander to win converts.

In fact I don't think science should be trying to "win converts"! That makes it seem all too much like any other sect/cult/religion/ideology/belief system, which in many ways, unfortunately, is what it seems to be.

 

[Carl Grove]

Yeah. Damndest thing!

I think it's a shame that the original poster doesn't appear to be around here these days, to talk more about it. For one I'd like to ask them more about the string or rope lines they described seeing during their experience.

Some folks mentioned the plausibility of them being part of some kind of installation art (and if so we would hope that there might be some kind of record of that). Others considered that if we were to go back a couple of centuries ropes suspended across tight spaces were rented out for the poor to sleep across. The ‘Two Penny Hangover’ – a Victorian Doss House concept.

Things which are visually seen or physically touched are what I personally find most interesting about these kind of experiences. Because those are more tangible. Far less open to interpretation.

For example, the original poster mentioned:

...the shift in atmosphere. From the normally bustling energy of Waterloo on a Saturday, it segued into a heavier depressing gloom.

Something which also seemed to echo in the behavior of other passengers:

Sitting across from us was a man who looked close to tears, red faced, breathing frantically, a really scared expression on his face. My boyfriend gave a surreptitious nod in his direction – the first clue I had that I wasn’t actually the only one experiencing something disquieting. Then my boyfriend whispered, "Look, him too," and there was another man further down the carriage who looked in fear of his life.

These kind of details are far more open to interpretation.

I'm sure we've all had points in our life where we think or feel 'I've got a really bad feeling about this'. But it doesn't necessarily mean anything unusual is going on. Likewise viewing the behavior and body language of others can also be subjective - Like how a seemingly neutral facial expression will always a be read as smile to some people, or sadness to others.

I'm not writing of the original poster, btw. I genuinely believe that is what she felt. But as to whether it relates directly to evidence of a potential timeslip is less likely in my opinion. Whereas other parts of her story possibly do.

Yes, seeing and touch are the most significant factors in the type 4 extreme time slips. But regarding trying to bring something back to this time -- WHAT could you bring back to the present that would provide solid evidence?