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Ancient Marvels: Skillful Humans Or Helpful Aliens?

The thing that bothers me about ancient astronaut-type programming is that there's an assumption that ancient people could not have thought of/designed/created/ whatever it was that so puzzled the researchers. Not on their own, anyway.

yes but the jumping-off point for alot of AAT - and what hooks people in to it - is that it is these very same ancient peoples foundation myths that appear to ascribe the origin of their cultures to mysteriously descending sky people,"gods" & various annunaki-type shennigans in the distant past

:abduct:
 
I read Chariots of the Gods as a teenager in the 70s. Fascinating, but old hat.
I much prefer listening to lectures on YouTube by real archeologists and anthropologists than Cable TV fluff.
As I recently visited the 4 corners region, lately I've been soaking up the Puebloan stuff.
 
"No wiring"

Apart from ancient Egyptian reliefs of what appear to be circuit diagrams:


View attachment 4269


and Crookes' tubes:

View attachment 4270
The first is a depiction of a traditional necklace. I think I even brought it up in this thread before.
The second is a panel from a temple built under Ptolemy, hardly true ancient Egyptian. And the hieroglyphs describe it as depicting part of their creation myth, that is a snake emerging from a lotus blossom.
Which is pretty much part and parcel Ancient Alien theory (and most of fringe Archaeology).
Looking at stuff, make no attempt to understand context, claim something fantastic.
 
I'd draw a parallel with the carving and painting in middle and high medieval european cathedral - some of which is too high ever to be seen once the place is finished, and some of which is hidden by the next piece of construction. i don't mean the next phase of building, I mean that the insides of things were sometimes carved and painted but would not be seen.

Any good?

Edit to add:


isn't human history littered with examples of a small rich powerful elite keeping things to themselves?

wouldn't say I'm part of a small rich and powerful elite... but I spent a good few weeks of leisure time one spring in crafting the interior of a WW2 bomber aircraft (all the Airfix kit gave for the interior was a bare floor and two pilots' seats. I took a look at a picture of the real thing and thought - there's a LOT going on in here" and took on the challenge of crafting it all from scratch.)

upload_2018-1-27_19-36-31.png


What's wrong with this picture? it's just that when I assembled both halves of the fuselage, 80% of the work I'd put in was now lost to view. Invisible.
upload_2018-1-27_19-42-25.png


And with the cockipit lid on, even less of those weeks of work is actually visible.
upload_2018-1-27_19-47-57.png


so why did I do it? Waste of time and energy?

Yes and no... there was the challenge of filling that space where no actual kit parts existed. Other hobby modellers will know this feeling. the techincal and I suppose model engineering challenge of selecting the right materials, the correct tools to craft them, calculating scale sizes, forming, crafting and shaping - seeing it all come together and knowing I'd achieved something and stretched my skills to the limit.

i'm not saying the Nazca lines were Airfix modelling on the grand scale - but just maybe the same sort of motivations were in there. "I don't care if it's a colossal and pointless waste of time - it's a challenge. Let's do it!"
 
Depends what is meant by "believe in Atlantis" .
I believe that the Azores are all that remains of what was a far larger, contiguous land mass back in the neolithic or early bronze age, and which is possibly what Plato referred to as Atlantis.
I don't believe they had any anomalously advanced technology though.

Or it could be a scrambled account of the Santorini/Thera Eruption of around 1500 BCE that took out the Minoan settlement on the island including vaporising the city on an island in the centre of the caldera.
 
the challenge of filling that space where no actual kit parts existed. Other hobby modellers will know this feeling. the techincal and I suppose model engineering challenge of selecting the right materials, the correct tools to craft them, calculating scale sizes, forming, crafting and shaping - seeing it all come together and knowing I'd achieved something and stretched my skills to the limit.

i'm not saying the Nazca lines were Airfix modelling on the grand scale - but just maybe the same sort of motivations were in there. "I don't care if it's a colossal and pointless waste of time - it's a challenge. Let's do it!"

I applaud this!
 
Thank you!

Never discount the power of creative time-wasting as a human motivation... the human urge to create, to solve problems, to get out there and make something, however seemingly useless or pointless.

Of course this raises other questions...

i) If the makers of the Naxca lines had had Airfix kits or the equivalent of model railways available to them, would they have bothered with carving artistic shapes into the landscape?

ii) If by some fluke my collection of completed model kits survives and is found by archaeologists in five thousand years - what the hell would they make of them? "Clear evidence of technology beyond the grasp of these primitive people - representations of extra-terrestrial technological artefacts..." Or else: "a primitive beleif in sympathetic magic... attempting to gather something of the soul of the fighting machines used in the high Nazi dynasty that overtook Europe for a few years and then dissappeared in some un-guessable catclysm... evidently to be used in some arcane ritual to recapture something of the essence of those times..."
 
Human beings are generally weirder and dumber than the foolish stuff they believe. A person with 100 IQ is pretty dumb, and they are statistically average, the bad news is, half the population are dumber than that. In the USA they statistically correct to 3 IQ points lower than the international average. Add to that the anti-intellectualism of American frontier self image and the role of religion as their social welfare network, and things are not good. I predict that the USA will decline on the back of the failure of its educational institutions this century. This attitude to ancient aliens etc is merely symptomatic of that. On the other hand, if anyone has real evidence of the validity of these outrageous claims, please present it.
 
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I'm not saying the Nazca lines were Airfix modelling on the grand scale - but just maybe the same sort of motivations were in there. "I don't care if it's a colossal and pointless waste of time - it's a challenge. Let's do it!"

The Nazca lines at their prime were visible from the nearby hills and mountains despite what Von Daniken said in Chariots of the Gods. They were a network of ritual spaces used by the locals. Is ritual a pointless waste of time? Some would say so. Others might not.
 
Yeah, thats kind of the problem with humans. We do things for weird reasons, and after the groups moved on, it's hard to figure out what they were on about. Especially is they left no written word behind.
Part of the trouble is we tend to look at it with our modern view of things. And its hard to let go of that. Takes a lot of time and practice to do it.
 
Yeah, thats kind of the problem with humans. We do things for weird reasons, and after the groups moved on, it's hard to figure out what they were on about. Especially is they left no written word behind. Part of the trouble is we tend to look at it with our modern view of things. And its hard to let go of that. Takes a lot of time and practice to do it.

Entirely agreed Shadowsot. Simply put, and unfortunately, nobody knows what the ritual figures adorning Nasca were actually for. Anyone who might have known is now long dead. It's a terrible shame. What is worse imo is that long distance truckers on the Panamerican Freeway are cutting across some of the figures in their trucks and destroying them. In a more bitter irony, Greenpeace has recently pulled a stunt that has damages the Nasca lines as well.

Truck damage article:
http://www.semissourian.com/story/130680.html
'Greenpeace article:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/10/peru-legal-action-greenpeace-stunt-nazca-lines
 
The Nazca lines at their prime were visible from the nearby hills and mountains despite what Von Daniken said in Chariots of the Gods. ...

... Part of the trouble is we tend to look at it with our modern view of things. And its hard to let go of that. Takes a lot of time and practice to do it.

The Nazca Lines became an iconic paranormalist / UFO reference because of these issues.

If you read the manner in which they were introduced decades ago in Fortean-type books, you'll see that the narrative is very consistent in claiming:

- no one really noticed the figures (and found them noteworthy) until modern folks saw them from airplanes

- since modern folks could 'read' them only from above, they couldn't have been devised for the visual benefit of anyone on the ground

- the only modern structures and artifacts deliberately designed to be visible from sky are navigational and orientational guides for aviators' reference

- the Nazca Lines only made sense to a modern mind in modern terms as guides / cues for someone in the sky

... and therefore ...

- the ancient Peruvians had reliable knowledge of someone in the sky.

It wasn't until much later (after the lines had become famous) that visitors and archaeologists reported they were quite visible from surrounding hills, etc.

This didn't matter ... By that time the mnemonic concrete had hardened, and the Nazca Lines were doomed to be known as ancient signals to ancient (presumably non-human) flyers.
 
The Nazca Lines became an iconic paranormalist / UFO reference because of these issues.

If you read the manner in which they were introduced decades ago in Fortean-type books, you'll see that the narrative is very consistent in claiming:

- no one really noticed the figures (and found them noteworthy) until modern folks saw them from airplanes

- since modern folks could 'read' them only from above, they couldn't have been devised for the visual benefit of anyone on the ground

- the only modern structures and artifacts deliberately designed to be visible from sky are navigational and orientational guides for aviators' reference

- the Nazca Lines only made sense to a modern mind in modern terms as guides / cues for someone in the sky

... and therefore ...

- the ancient Peruvians had reliable knowledge of someone in the sky.

It wasn't until much later (after the lines had become famous) that visitors and archaeologists reported they were quite visible from surrounding hills, etc.

This didn't matter ... By that time the mnemonic concrete had hardened, and the Nazca Lines were doomed to be known as ancient signals to ancient (presumably non-human) flyers.
Which to me has always raised the question, why interstellar beings need signposts.
It was the tech at the time. In fact, every now and then those old markers show up as alien/secret government markings.
But presumably aliens would have a version of gps, or something far improved but equivalent, to get here in the first place.
But aliens only seem to have technology equivalent to, or slightly improved, to the time.
 
... But aliens only seem to have technology equivalent to, or slightly improved, to the time.

Agreed ... One of the taints affecting paranormal sightings is the manner in which we (humans) tend to frame and contextualize everything in our own historically-grounded preconceptions.

The mystery airships of the late 19th century were projections of the same fanciful technologies artists had applied in speculating about human flying machines.

Fast, sleek, and amazingly maneuverable UFO's didn't become commonly reported until just after WW2 - when air power had demonstrated its dominance, streamlining had become a pop motif, and jet aircraft were widely known.
 
Agreed ... One of the taints affecting paranormal sightings is the manner in which we (humans) tend to frame and contextualize everything in our own historically-grounded preconceptions.

The mystery airships of the late 19th century were projections of the same fanciful technologies artists had applied in speculating about human flying machines.

Fast, sleek, and amazingly maneuverable UFO's didn't become commonly reported until just after WW2 - when air power had demonstrated its dominance, streamlining had become a pop motif, and jet aircraft were widely known.

With the possible exception of the ancient Indian accounts of flying machines called Vimana and of improbably destructive weapons, in some very early Scanskrit texts. These date to the latter stages of Iron Age India and purport to describe far earlier events. Certainly orders of magnitude ahead of the technology of the time.
 
With the possible exception of the ancient Indian accounts of flying machines called Vimana ...

Yes, but ... One must bear in mind that the various references to Vimana, as well as the vision of Ezekiel, characterize the flying object(s) as chariots, wheeled conveyances, or structures having the form of buildings.

Flying was mentioned as a magical feature of something otherwise described as a contemporary terrestrial object. The forms and objects of the known terrestrial world were projected onto the terrestrially-based conceptions of realms that were literally or metaphorically 'higher' (skies, heaven, superior layers or levels of a cosmological model, etc.).

As a result, I'd say the same principle of extrapolating from the mundane to frame the transcendent applies all the way back ...
 
This recent Smithsonian item addresses the manner in which we tend to project the currently known or accepted onto anything unknown observed in the skies ...

How UFO Reports Change With the Technology of the Times
In 1896, newspapers throughout the United States began reporting accounts of mysterious airships flying overhead. Descriptions varied, but witnesses frequently invoked the century’s great technological achievements. Some sources reported dirigibles powered by steam engines. Others saw motorized, winged crafts with screw propellers. Many recalled a flying machine equipped with a powerful searchlight.


As technologies of flight evolve, so do the descriptions of unidentified flying objects. The pattern has held in the 21st century as sightings of drone-like objects are reported, drawing concern from military and intelligence officials about possible security threats.

While puzzling over the appearance of curious things overhead may be a constant, how we have done so has changed over time, as the people doing the puzzling change. In every instance of reporting UFOs, observers have called on their personal experiences and prevailing knowledge of world events to make sense of these nebulous apparitions. In other words, affairs here on earth have consistently colored our perceptions of what is going on over our heads. ...

FULL ARTICLE: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/how-ufo-reports-change-with-technology-times-180968011/
 
With the possible exception of the ancient Indian accounts of flying machines called Vimana and of improbably destructive weapons, in some very early Scanskrit texts. These date to the latter stages of Iron Age India and purport to describe far earlier events. Certainly orders of magnitude ahead of the technology of the time.
The vimana in the texts are described as temple roofs enchanted by demons to fly. The machine descriptions are a much later add on.
 
Ancient Astronauts used in religious feuds.

Christian Ministry Takes Out National Ad to Claim Demons Impersonate Aliens to Deceive Christians Into Worshiping on the Wrong Day of the Week
3/27/2018

Last Christmas, I bought my son some gifts online, and unbeknownst to me, the retailer used the purchase to sign me up for free trial subscriptions to about half a dozen useless magazines, which began showing up unbidden six weeks later, much to my surprise. It took many phone calls to track down where the magazines came from and to make sure I wasn’t being charged for them. The bottom line is that I have an unwanted weekly subscription to People magazine. I was shocked to discover an advertisement in the back of the current week’s edition making use of the ancient astronaut theory to promote an evangelical Christian limited liability corporation registered in Wyoming.

The ad comes to us under the auspices of World’s Last Chance, LLC, a corporation-cum-ministry headed by Galal P. Doss, a former Seventh-Day Adventist from Egypt with a track record of making bizarre prophecies, such as his failed prophecy that the pope to succeed Benedict XVI would be a demon pretending to be the resurrected John Paul II. Doss headed an Egyptian cosmetics company before leaving Adventism in 1999 over concerns that the Adventist church was too “soft” on social issues. His efforts to convince Coptic Christians of the error of their faith earned a reprove from the head of the Coptic church in the early 2000s. Doss remains the head of the Family Cosmetics Sae company, and his business success seems to help him to fund his ministry. ...

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/c...-into-worshiping-on-the-wrong-day-of-the-week
 
Funny how they can't consider the possibility that they might actually be aliens, preferring instead to believe in something even less likely.
 
Ancient Astronauts used in religious feuds.

Christian Ministry Takes Out National Ad to Claim Demons Impersonate Aliens to Deceive Christians Into Worshiping on the Wrong Day of the Week
3/27/2018

Last Christmas, I bought my son some gifts online, and unbeknownst to me, the retailer used the purchase to sign me up for free trial subscriptions to about half a dozen useless magazines, which began showing up unbidden six weeks later, much to my surprise. It took many phone calls to track down where the magazines came from and to make sure I wasn’t being charged for them. The bottom line is that I have an unwanted weekly subscription to People magazine. I was shocked to discover an advertisement in the back of the current week’s edition making use of the ancient astronaut theory to promote an evangelical Christian limited liability corporation registered in Wyoming.

The ad comes to us under the auspices of World’s Last Chance, LLC, a corporation-cum-ministry headed by Galal P. Doss, a former Seventh-Day Adventist from Egypt with a track record of making bizarre prophecies, such as his failed prophecy that the pope to succeed Benedict XVI would be a demon pretending to be the resurrected John Paul II. Doss headed an Egyptian cosmetics company before leaving Adventism in 1999 over concerns that the Adventist church was too “soft” on social issues. His efforts to convince Coptic Christians of the error of their faith earned a reprove from the head of the Coptic church in the early 2000s. Doss remains the head of the Family Cosmetics Sae company, and his business success seems to help him to fund his ministry. ...

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/c...-into-worshiping-on-the-wrong-day-of-the-week

I saw their ad in a magazine recently and they are quite the extreme group... at least to me, the ad seemed to make the claim that the biggest thing wrong in today's society is that Pope Francis will advocate for peace with the demon aliens who are imminently to appear during his reign, and then after being declared the leader of the world, Francis will impose a world-wide sabbath on Sunday, which as it's the wrong day (according to World's Last Chance) the end times will be upon us.

https://www.worldslastchance.com/
 
It's pretty much cherry picking:The paper.
They picked the one pillar at the site that gave them the alignment they wanted (there are many pillars at the site) and used a zodiac system of a much more later culture and picked out the symbols that resembled those.
Even though cultures esperate by a few miles and concurrent with each other would develop unique astrology signs.
And they ignore other symbols that were carved and more common but didn't fit their claim. The engineers didn't consult with anyone at the site, they basically call y went in with their conclusion and fit the data to it.
 
It's pretty much cherry picking:The paper.
They picked the one pillar at the site that gave them the alignment they wanted (there are many pillars at the site) and used a zodiac system of a much more later culture and picked out the symbols that resembled those.
Even though cultures esperate by a few miles and concurrent with each other would develop unique astrology signs.
And they ignore other symbols that were carved and more common but didn't fit their claim. The engineers didn't consult with anyone at the site, they basically call y went in with their conclusion and fit the data to it.

Not arguing with a word of that. But it s a fine old tradition, is it not? ;)
 
Hi All,

Due to an abnormal life experience, I actually happened to research into the history to find if a highly advanced technology existed since way back in the past and following are the list of things that I managed to find in my research. Perhaps you all might have an interest in knowing these information. In my research I had to conclude that this technology still exist on Earth.

According to Randall Carlson, the location of Parthenon(a temple in Greece) on Earth has a correlation to it’s dimensions, therefore, he claims that someone has managed to measure the Earth for such an accuracy.

To [...] prove this view, we could analyse the distance between Kaaba in Mecca and the Western Wall:

For example the distance between Kaaba in Mecca and the Western Wall in Jerusalem is precisely 666.6 nautical miles. These two are the most sacred sites on Earth. Again, this implies that someone in the past knew how to measure great distances with such an accuracy. This doesn’t mean people who built it was able to measure these distances but our thoughts are being influenced when selecting these sites. http://www.secretsinplainsight.com/location-location-location/

[Moderator edit]
 
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Review of Ancient Aliens S13E04 "Earth's Black Holes"

As Ancient Aliens has aged, it has grown repetitive, but more importantly, it has moved farther and farther from its original concept. What began as a straightforward adaptation of Erich von Däniken’s Chariots of the Gods and the ancient astronaut theory that spun out of it has evolved into an all-purpose grab-bag of unusual claims, encompassing modern UFOs, cryptid sightings, psychic powers, and everything else that fills the New Age section of what few bookstores still remain. I can’t say I am terribly interested in mysterious disappearances, vortexes, or any of the sundry similar topics in this week’s episode. I didn’t care for them back in Season 3 when they talked about similar material in “Aliens and Evil Places,” or in Season 7 with “Aliens and Star Gates,” and I don’t care much for it now. You will forgive me if I don’t spend too much time on material that is largely unrelated to either ancient history or space aliens. ...

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/review-of-ancient-aliens-s13e04-earths-black-holes
 
By the way, at the end of the day I had to conclude that there has been a highly advanced society existed in the past and then after a global catastrophe a group of families (these are the Pharaoh's) has managed to keep the technology within their family members only and started ruling the Earth and their still ruling the Earth with their extremely advanced technology. This why we always talk about Illuminati and this is why we see the "all seeing eye" and the pyramid sign in the dollar bill and this is why we see the Great Pyramid at the centre of the land mass on Earth. Today based on certain clues I had to conclude that these families, their descendants are ruling the Earth from Switzerland.
 
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