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Maybe they'd had their wallets nicked too.

Congrats mate, that was almost funny, keep the theories coming, this thread is donkey's years old and could do with an injection of exciting new up-to-the-minute cutting edge speculations by FT's finest!
Same goes for all other FT members, post your sensational theories here about what you think might have befell the Dyatlovs..:)
 
WHOA Jack! We don't know for sure that he was drunk, the Dyatlov group might simply have told the police that to discredit him when he alleged they'd pinched his wallet!
The book mentions that there was at least one other hiking group waiting for a train connection in Serov station, so perhaps he was a member of that group, therefore all fully equipped with the gear to go with him to track the Dyatlovs and get his wallet back.
Hang on a tick - your original quotation from page 20 of the McCloskey book didn't simply say that the accuser was drunk, that individual was described as "a young alcoholic". Now I've got some experience of Russian society, and the stereotype of Russians as hard drinkers has quite a substantial basis in truth: there are plenty of people who might merit the label "functioning alcoholic" who are not considered to be anything of the sort, at least by their compatriots. So if a Russian is described as alcoholic, I'd stake a reasonable amount of money on them being effectively derelict, or at any rate far from functioning. At which point Max's list of traits comes into play, and then some. (@maximus otter - the only thing I'd take slight issue with is your fifth point: last I looked the average life expectancy for a Russian male was 56 years old. I'd imagine it's significantly less than that for alcoholics. So I have a nasty feeling that decades don't enter into it...)

Now, even assuming that our hapless drunk could have a whip-round and raise sufficient money to buy train tickets to follow Dyatlov's group, what do you think he would actually spend the money on? And I am sure his mates who ponied up would have been, uh, persuasive in encouraging him.

Without seeing the sources that McCloskey based this passage on, though, we're effectively whistling in the wind.
 
Hang on a tick - your original quotation from page 20 of the McCloskey book didn't simply say that the accuser was drunk, that individual was described as "a young alcoholic"...

Yes, all we've got to go on is the single brief sentence-
p 20- "A young alcoholic accused someone in the group of stealing his wallet, with the result that the police were called.Luckily nothing came of it and the group were allowed to proceed without any further restrictions, much to their relief"
So we shouldn't read too much into it, perhaps he was just a little bit tipsy.

In fact if he was roaring drunk the Serov police would probably have arrested him (this was hardline 1959 Russia), and they'd already told off one of the Dyatlov group for singing!-

p 18- "George Krivochenko...started singing, which was enough for the policeman to grab him and haul him away.
The police told the group that Section 3 (of local railway regulations) forbade all activity that would 'disturb the peace of passengers'."
Eventually he was released.
 
Congrats mate, that was almost funny, keep the theories coming, this thread is donkey's years old and could do with an injection of exciting new up-to-the-minute cutting edge speculations by FT's finest!
Same goes for all other FT members, post your sensational theories here about what you think might have befell the Dyatlovs..:)

For what it's worth the most elegant theory seems to me to be that put forward by Donny Eichar in Dead Mountain. Elegant - but certainly not conclusive.

It is of course possible to be interested without holding to a theory, having to come up with your own, or agree with anyone else's. I've been involved in this thread since page 1 - at which time there was virtually no information available anywhere on the subject (if I recall right - it all started with articles in two Russian newspapers, which referenced each other). In the intervening years a lot more information has emerged - but, speaking for myself, nothing to convince me that any one theory is anything like watertight.
 
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WHOA Jack! We don't know for sure that he was drunk, the Dyatlov group might simply have told the police that to discredit him when he alleged they'd pinched his wallet!
The book mentions that there was at least one other hiking group waiting for a train connection in Serov station, so perhaps he was a member of that group, therefore all fully equipped with the gear to go with him to track the Dyatlovs and get his wallet back.
What did Yuri Yudin make of the incident? He was on the train and was the only surviving member of the expedition.
 
For what it's worth the most elegant theory seems to me to be that put forward by Donny Eichar in Dead Mountain. Elegant - but certainly not conclusive...
In the intervening years a lot more information has emerged - but, speaking for myself, nothing to convince me that any one theory is anything like watertight.

I haven't got Eichar's book so please tell us what his "elegant" theory is..;)
As for all the other theories out there, some are more watertight than others, and for the record here's a list of them covered in detail in McCloskeys book 'Mountain of the Dead' on pages 83-116:-

Avalanche
Military accident (weapon testing gone wrong)
Murder by local Mansi tribesmen
Murder by escaped prisoners
Murder by Russian Special Forces (after witnessing top-secret experiments)
Murder by American Special Forces (after seeing a U.S. squad that was spying in the area)
Fire in the tent
The Dyatlovs fought among themselves and killed each other
Bears or wolves killed them
UFO's were involved
Yetis and Trolls got them
The supernatural 'Golden Woman of the Urals' emerged from her lair to kill them.


Compared to some of those theories, my "Wallet" theory sounds slightly more credible..:)
 
...The book mentions that there was at least one other hiking group waiting for a train connection in Serov station, so perhaps he was a member of that group, therefore all fully equipped with the gear to go with him to track the Dyatlovs and get his wallet back.

I suspect that this could be a reference to the Blinov party. Although their meeting up on he train was apparently coincidental both groups were known to each other - in fact, part of the same hiking club. If this was the case then the alcoholic (or not alcoholic - depending on your point of view) theft victim would have been known to the party. This doesn't discount the theory - but, if known to each other, it would put a bit of a different spin on things. And, if a known quantity, you'd maybe have to ask why the information in regard to the incident is so sparse.
 
What did Yuri Yudin make of the incident? He was on the train and was the only surviving member of the expedition.

Yes he'd have been aware of the earlier "drunk" incident at Serov station but as far as I know he never mentioned it afterwards (but i'll google around).
Incidentally when he left the group later it was because of the pain of "radiculitis"
WIKI- "A common form of radiculitis is sciatica – radicular pain that radiates along the sciatic nerve from the lower spine to the lower back, gluteal muscles, back of the upper thigh, calf, and foot"

(PS- Shackleton the Antarctic explorer also suffered from it to some degree)
 
I haven't got Eichar's book so please tell us what his "elegant" theory is..;)

The effects on the human mind and body of extreme environmental conditions caused by vortex shedding.

See posts 510 to 530...ish
 
Waymarker quote-..The book mentions that there was at least one other hiking group waiting for a train connection in Serov station..
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I suspect that this could be a reference to the Blinov party. Although their meeting up on he train was apparently coincidental both groups were known to each other - in fact, part of the same hiking club. If this was the case then the alcoholic (or not alcoholic - depending on your point of view) theft victim would have been known to the party. This doesn't discount the theory - but, if known to each other, it would put a bit of a different spin on things. And, if a known quantity, you'd maybe have to ask why the information in regard to the incident is so sparse.

Yes the Dyatlov's bumped into the Yuri Blinov hiking group on the train to Serov (page 18) who they all knew and were on friendly terms with, (Igor Dyatlov gave a radio set to them as a gift) but whether the "drunk" was in the Blinov group or another group we don't know.
But if he WAS in the Blinov group, they'd have all certainly been well equipped to hike after the Dyatlovs to help him get his wallet back.
 
Waymarker quote- "I haven't got Eichar's book so please tell us what his "elegant" theory is"..;)
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The effects on the human mind and body of extreme environmental conditions caused by vortex shedding.
See posts 510 to 530...ish

Thanks, CoastalJames defined it thus in his post #520 in Feb 2016-
"..as I recall it the author outlined how the area created whats known as a "Karman vortex street" which, in a nutshell, generated loads of weird infrasound waves that would have both terrified and disorientated those poor folk. Effectively, he claimed, they lost their minds and panicked to a degree that had horrible results."

Hmm interesting, McCloskey mentions the "infrasound" theory too but rather than suggesting it was a natural phenomenon, he postulates that it might have been produced by secret military weapon tests. (pages 94-96).
 
...Here are some facts that may also support the murder theory, this first one suggests the Dyatlov group suspected they were being followed, so deliberately diverted to try to shake them-
p 31/32 "..they appear to have lost their way and ended up on the eastern slope of Kholat Syakhl ('Mountain of the Dead') rather tham Mount Otorten..as they had originally intended...Mount Otorten lay 9 miles (15km) directly to the north of where they were." ...


This characterization of their location is dead wrong. They weren't lost. Mount Otorten was the targeted objective and turn-around point for the ski trip as planned. Their path over Dyatlov Pass was part of the route planning all along.

They weren't off their intended path at all. They were, however, falling behind schedule.

They'd arrived at the expected transition point (where they'd turn away from the river valley and proceed up over the pass), began to ascend the pass, but turned back and camped in the river valley the night before the last known (and presumably fatal) night. Dyatlov's diary indicates they'd aborted the pass ascent because of the deteriorating weather. In addition, they may well have been running late and simply decided there wasn't enough time to make the pass (and valley beyond) before night fell, so they left the next planned section of the route to the following day.

The original plan was to cross the pass, descend into the hollow / valley on the other side (where all their bodies were found), establish a cache, and then proceed onward toward Mount Ortoten. This was still the plan as of that penultimate night in the river valley, as documented in one of the party's journals.

After turning back from their first attempt at ascending the pass they camped back down in the river valley through which they'd approached. They established the planned cache there (in the river valley rather than the planned valley on the other side of the pass) the following day before setting out to ascend the pass.

I've long suspected this change of plan (night before = cache on other side of the pass; morning = set up cache where they were) was the first in the chain of events that doomed them. This delayed their starting out to ascend the pass and contributed to their finding themselves atop the pass in worsening weather conditions.

When the party didn't reappear as expected, the searchers started at the farthest objective and turn-around point (Mount Ortoten). When the searchers found no evidence the Dyatlov party had made it to Ortoten, they dispatched parties back along the known / planned route by which Dyatlov's party was supposed to have gotten to Ortoten. One of these backtracking parties checked the Kholat Syakhl area and readily discovered the tent site.
 
It seems clear that paradoxical undressing played a major part in the group's end. Coincidentally I've just finished rereading a book which touches on that very issue: Co. Aytch, by Samuel R. Watkins.

Watkins was a private soldier in the Confederate States Army during the American Civil War, and his very readable war autobiography contains several incidents of interest to Forteans.

One night in January 1862, near the town of Romney, West Virginia, Watkins was tasked to stand picket near a bridge during a period of intensely cold weather. Here is his brief account:

"...the most blinding snow storm fell that I ever saw. It fell so thick and fast that I got hot. I felt like pulling off my coat. I was freezing. The winds sounded like sweet music. I felt grand, glorious, peculiar; beautiful things began to play and dance around my head, and I supposed I must have dropped to sleep or something, when I felt Schwartz grab me, and give me a shake, and at the same time raised his gun and fired..."

Co. Aytch, Ch.1, Romney

maximus otter
 
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,,They weren't lost. Mount Otorten was the targeted objective and turn-around point for the ski trip as planned. Their path over Dyatlov Pass was part of the route planning all along...They were, however, falling behind schedule..
Agreed, I can't understand why McCloskey says in his book 'Mountain of the Dead' that-
p 31/32 "..they appear to have lost their way and ended up on the eastern slope of Kholat Syakhl ('Mountain of the Dead') rather tham Mount Otorten..as they had originally intended.."


Perhaps he should have said they were delayed, not lost.
In fact his own map in his book (below) doesn't indicate they were "lost"; I've added coloured arrows for clarity.
The yellow is their route by truck and horse-drawn wagon to the Geologist's settlement, and the red is their route on foot and skis to Kholat Syakhl ('Mountain of the Dead') where they died, which I estimate was around 25 miles from the settlement and took them several days hiking to cover.
The black dotted line (McCloskey's work) was their intended route onwards to Otorten and then looping back southwards to Vizhay at bottom right.
However, regardless of routing, the fact remains they died mysteriously and inexplicably.
dyatlov-route_zpsdpaiaqks.jpg~original

 
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It seems clear that paradoxical undressing played a major part in the group's end..

Yes, amazingly when somebody is in the final stages of hypothermia they feel hot and take off all their clothes, it's something to do with the body's metabolism going haywire and releasing warm blood from the internal organs to the rest of the body in a sudden hot flush.
It may well have partially played a part in the Dyatlov's demise, but it still leaves puzzling questions like why did they leave the tent and get hypothermia in the first place?
 
It may well have partially played a part in the Dyatlov's demise, but it still leaves puzzling questions like why did they leave the tent and get hypothermia in the first place?
They could well have succumbed to hypothermia in the tent, and left it in a deluded attempt to "cool off".
 
They could well have succumbed to hypothermia in the tent, and left it in a deluded attempt to "cool off".

They were all very experienced hikers in warm sleeping bags in a warm tent, so if hypothermia got them I can't really see how.
 
It can happen - that part of Siberia can experience sudden drops in (already) freezing temperature, and whilst tents do obviate wind-chill, the ambient temperature outside will eventually bring the temperature inside the tent down to similar levels (think if a fridge breaks down in a warm kitchen, how quickly the milk inside will go off - same principle in reverse, and fridges are better insulated than tents.) Sleeping bags in turn will only stave off that degree of cold for a limited time, and if they were already on the verge of it when they got into the tents, perhaps having been caught unawares, it may have been too late anyway.
 
Okay, but suppose hypothermia made them run out of the tent, how did they get broken bones and other injuries?
 
Okay, but suppose hypothermia made them run out of the tent, how did they get broken bones and other injuries?
No idea. That's a bit of a mystery, that.

(The hypothermia thing is all supposition of course. Nobody - as far as we're aware - actually knows what happened. So we have to piece together possibilities: hypothermia may explain the behaviour, but the results are not necessarily a direct result of it.)
 
Speaking of hypothermia, two of the members of the infamous 'Bravo-Two-Zero' SAS patrol died of it in the desert in the Gulf War because they never took any warm clothing with them, so if even highly-trained people like them make such botch-ups, it's possible that perhaps the Dyatlov group mistakenly took clothing and sleeping bags that were too lightweight to keep them warm in the tent.
PS- and of course let's not forget that the astronauts in Apollo 13 were shivering in the wrecked spacecraft because it never crossed the minds of themselves or NASA to take some warm clothing along in case of emergency..
 
Okay, but suppose hypothermia made them run out of the tent, how did they get broken bones and other injuries?

The only members of the party whose bodies exhibited fractures were the four found at the 'den' / 'ravine' site.
 
It can happen - that part of Siberia can experience sudden drops in (already) freezing temperature ...

I believe we've sufficiently established that a blast of Arctic air hit the area during the critical time period (dig back through this thread). This change in weather drove the recorded temperatures down to circa -50 C at the recording sites, and the combination of plummeting temperatures and fierce winds forced the Shumkov party on Chistop (35 km to the east / southeast) to flee their mountain encampment in fear of their very lives.

(Check this thread, starting around post #288, for details.)
 
The only members of the party whose bodies exhibited fractures were the four found at the 'den' / 'ravine' site.

And my understanding is that the bone injuries sustained by the bodies discovered at this site could be entirely consistent with falling into that ravine - is that right?

There was also mention of a missing tongue. If I recall rightly there was a suggestion that this might have been eaten by small animals, or by microfauna in meltwater later in the year. (I also wonder if it might have been bitten off as a result of the fall - which I believe is not uncommon in sudden impact situations.)
 
And my understanding is that the bone injuries sustained by the bodies discovered at this site could be entirely consistent with falling into that ravine - is that right?

Yes. The medical examiner who autopsied the bodies concluded that even the most severe set of fractures (Dubinina's ribs) could have been caused by falling from a height of as little as 2 - 3 meters onto a hard surface. The 'ravine' (stream bed) was rocky, and the likely distance fallen at the location was at least 2 - 3 meters, as I recall.

NOTE: The so-called 'ravine' wasn't anything as dramatic as a mini-canyon. It was simply a defile at the bottom of which flowed a small creek or brook, the relevant bank of which (toward the 'den' mere steps away) was pretty steep.

Dubinina's heart was lacerated - most probably by one of her broken ribs. It's unlikely she'd traveled any distance with that injury, strongly suggesting her fall had occurred where her body was found. The other 3 bodies were found piled atop hers, so her most severe internal injuries could have resulted from others falling onto her in the stream bed.


There was also mention of a missing tongue. If I recall rightly there was a suggestion that this might have been eaten by small animals, or by microfauna in meltwater later in the year. (I also wonder if it might have been bitten off as a result of the fall - which I believe is not uncommon in sudden impact situations.)

The missing tongue is commonly cited for Dubinina's body - one which lay in the stream bed (underneath the snow pack, but accessible to any critters crawling beneath to get at the liquid water). Hers was among the last of the bodies to be discovered, and missing tongues are a common loss due to post mortem scavenging.

I believe the biting-off interpretation had been mentioned or considered as well, but it was eventually dismissed mainly because the severed tongue hadn't been found and there were other, less dramatic, signs of scavenger nibbling.
 
... so if even highly-trained people like them make such botch-ups, it's possible that perhaps the Dyatlov group mistakenly took clothing and sleeping bags that were too lightweight to keep them warm in the tent. ...

The Dyatlov party consisted of experienced winter ski-trekkers who'd undertaken similar backcountry trips during the dead of winter in preceding years.

There were no sleeping bags ever mentioned among the original documentation. The party was using blankets and tarps for bedding. This wasn't unusual in backcountry camping as of the 1950's, even here in the USA where WW2-era military surplus bags were available and mass market bags were beginning to proliferate.

This suggests they were given to sleeping almost fully clothed, and the bodies' attire (mostly clothed, save for their feet) further suggests they abandoned the tent in the state of dress they used for sleeping.
 
... As for all the other theories out there, some are more watertight than others, and for the record here's a list of them covered in detail in McCloskeys book 'Mountain of the Dead' on pages 83-116:-

Avalanche
Military accident (weapon testing gone wrong)
Murder by local Mansi tribesmen
Murder by escaped prisoners
Murder by Russian Special Forces (after witnessing top-secret experiments)
Murder by American Special Forces (after seeing a U.S. squad that was spying in the area)
Fire in the tent
The Dyatlovs fought among themselves and killed each other
Bears or wolves killed them
UFO's were involved
Yetis and Trolls got them
The supernatural 'Golden Woman of the Urals' emerged from her lair to kill them.

...

This isn't a complete list of all the speculations that have emerged over the years, and it's somewhat misleading in its emphasis on 'murder / killed by someone or something else' spins.

The #1 fact opposing the murder (etc.) theories is the lack of any autopsy results indicating fatal blows, stab wounds, bites, etc. The sole obviously non-accidental damage noted for any of the bodies were signs of animal scavenging on one or more of the last 4 bodies found (at the 'den' / 'ravine' site).

The #2 fact opposing the murder (etc.) theories is that no tracks un-attributable to the Dyatlov party themselves were noted or reported by the searchers who discovered the last campsite. The initial searchers readily located the set of tracks (variously estimated to represent no fewer than 6 and no more than 9 walkers) leading for circa 500 meters down-slope from the tent in the direction of the wooded vale where all the bodies were discovered.

Neither were any 'non-Dyatlov-party' tracks noted or reported at the 3 locations where the party's bodies were eventually found.
 
Continuing with respect to the listing mentioned above ...

The avalanche angle is often mentioned as motivating their abandoning the tent - not the proximate cause of their deaths. This angle is typically encountered in one of two forms:

(1) An actual avalanche, or fear of an imminent avalanche prompted by noise, from the mountain's peak up-slope from their tent; or

(2) A more modest 'snow-slip' that collapsed or buried the tent during the night.

The searchers mentioned no evidence of a major avalanche. The tent's collapsed state is consistent with the snow-slip version, which is entirely plausible given the deep snow within which they'd pitched the tent (as demonstrated in one of the final photographs).

It's also noteworthy that the snow depth in the photos of the tent-as-discovered seems far less than the snow depth indicated in the tent-pitching photo (suggesting any obvious remains of a snow slip had melted or blown away during the 2(?) weeks before the tent site was discovered).

It's also important to bear in mind that the photos of searchers at the tent were taken after the partially-buried tent had been dug out and searched.
 
And finally ...

The primary motivation for UFO-related speculations relates to reports of strange lights in the sky apparently near their location, seen from considerable distances away, and occurring around the time of the apparently fatal timeframe. If you dig back through this thread you'll find there's substantial evidence and rationale for attributing these reports to known missile launches in their ascent phase.

I strongly suspect there could have been some sort of social / interpersonal stress that was a significant factor. One obvious source for such stress was the situation in which they found themselves - a situation resulting from a plan that was unraveling and leaving them stuck in a final camping location that was so ill-advised one must wonder if it was chosen out of desperation.

There was no fire in the tent. The searchers reported no sign of fire, or even an attempt at fire, in or around the tent. The party's portable stove was intact. They had at least 1 substantial chunk of dry firewood with them, and some accounts state the searchers found an additional bundle or bag of smaller wood bits as well.

The party's journal entries confirm they hadn't used the stove the preceding evening, either. This means that as of the fatal whatever-it-was, they were in the midst of at least their second consecutive night without employing their heat source. This is a key reason I suspect hypothermia played a substantial role in their demise.
 
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