Jack The Ripper (Compendium Thread)

[Cochise]

I’m a bit (very) late to this thread. But wonder what are people favourite idea why he got away with it and why the killings stopped?

Did he die? Wouldn’t it be great if his next intended victim did for him. If I was a prostitute of the time and had to work to survive I’d make sure I was armed with something.

Did he end up in one institution or another. Prison or the loony bin. The asylum idea scares me as my town had three asylums of London’s mentally ill.

Did he have a quota and finished? (Yeah right!)

Was he someone high up and well protected?

I’ve been trying for a while about a story where Jack is a demonic possession and therefor each murder is a different person he’s taken over. Finishing maybe with an exorcism.

My trouble is every time I hear a theory I think ‘yes that could be it’ but then another theory rides into town. I did rather like the from hell explanation.

In my opinion he was never caught due to the lack of evidence.

1) None of the witness reports are certainly of the murderer.

2) There is no common agreement as to which murders were the work of the murderer. Corollary - we don't know how many murderers there were.

3) The crimes pre-date fingerprints, DNA, indeed most forms of forensics.

4) The crimes covered two police areas and they did not collaborate well

5) The investigation became confused by conflicting theories before the murder series had even ended. (Leather Apron, Doctors, City Gents slumming, etc.)

There would probably be other reasons if I thought longer! Unless some new incontrovertible evidence comes to light all the words written about the case only lead to dead ends.

I do find some suspects more interesting than others but in the end its just too frustrating to keep thinking about.

As to why he stopped - well we now know that some serial killers do stop, although I think it unlikely in this case, therefore I assume he became incapacitated in some way. The 'loony bins' have been pretty thoroughly researched without coming up with any really likely candidates Kosminski, David Cohen and Cutbush are possibles but hardly convincing. Certainly nowhere near enough to have actually been prosecuted.

Having gone on at such length my favourite candidates so far raised are William Bury, James Kelly, and as a long shot Francis Thompson.

 

[Yossarian]

The most compelling argument I've seen is Bruce Robinson's Michael Maybrick theory - though whether that's just because it's a pleasing narrative, I'm not really sure. It ties up the Masonic connections in a more plausible manner than the usual conspiracies - "Jack" using Masonic imagery to taunt the police, rather than to act out some grand Masonic plot, seems more in keeping with the character of Jack that comes across in the letters.

He also makes an impressive effort at verifying many of the discredited letters - some that were written off as frauds yet seem to have knowledge of future killings, in particular, and how the different postal locations match up rather well with Maybrick's tour dates. It's convincing in part, and he does at least make an effort to consider and debunk alternative theories, so it seems less like he is lying by omission than many writers who have claimed to have "found the truth".


I rather suspect the truth to be far more mundane, though. With no consensus on the "canonical" killings, or even firm evidence than the most widely agreed murders were committed by one man, I lean towards thinking that there may never have been a single "Jack The Ripper", but rather a combination of grisly murders - not necessarily unheard of at the time - coinciding with a particular kind of press hysteria and titillation; a real series of (potentially unrelated) murders given the mythic aspect of the likes of Spring Heeled Jack in the penny dreadfuls, essentially.

 

[Yithian]

The most compelling argument I've seen is Bruce Robinson's Michael Maybrick theory - though whether that's just because it's a pleasing narrative, I'm not really sure. It ties up the Masonic connections in a more plausible manner than the usual conspiracies - "Jack" using Masonic imagery to taunt the police, rather than to act out some grand Masonic plot, seems more in keeping with the character of Jack that comes across in the letters.

He also makes an impressive effort at verifying many of the discredited letters - some that were written off as frauds yet seem to have knowledge of future killings, in particular, and how the different postal locations match up rather well with Maybrick's tour dates. It's convincing in part, and he does at least make an effort to consider and debunk alternative theories, so it seems less like he is lying by omission than many writers who have claimed to have "found the truth".


I rather suspect the truth to be far more mundane, though. With no consensus on the "canonical" killings, or even firm evidence than the most widely agreed murders were committed by one man, I lean towards thinking that there may never have been a single "Jack The Ripper", but rather a combination of grisly murders - not necessarily unheard of at the time - coinciding with a particular kind of press hysteria and titillation; a real series of (potentially unrelated) murders given the mythic aspect of the likes of Spring Heeled Jack in the penny dreadfuls, essentially.

I was strongly considering buying the Robinson book, but I was put off by a number of reviewers that said (I paraphrase) that the Victorian society he portrays never existed and is a projection of his own anti-authoritarian philosophy. I wouldn't have even minded that so much, but again I read that there were digressionary rants in such direction that derailed the narrative.

As I admit, I haven't read it, but as you have: does any of this ring true? Ripperology is a cuthroat business and disingenous summaries all too common.

 

[Cochise]

There are many arguments some more interesting than others but unfortunately there is no way of proving them. As I mentioned I have my own 'favourites' but its at the point that options largely depend on how good a writer a particular author is.

I do know it was neither Dr. Barnado, nor Prince Eddy, nor Lewis Carroll.

There are so many suspects, but even them not being in London at the time seems not good enough to eliminate them in some peoples' minds - see Walter Sickert and Dr Neill Cream. And don't even get me started on H.H. Holmes.

I think the most likely thing is that we will never know the names of the actual murderer or murderers.

 

[Victory]

Postcard in possession of widow of police officer is purported to be from "Jack", where he signals intent to murder.
Is it me or does the handwriting looks very "precise", pretty much how I would imagine a psychopath to write?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ostcard-sent-police-gloating-Jack-Ripper.html

 

[EnolaGaia]

... Is it me or does the handwriting looks very "precise", pretty much how I would imagine a psychopath to write? ...

Compared with the obsessively stylized handwriting of other (later) serial killers, the writing on this postcard seems a bit chaotic. The florid elaborations on the capital letters clash with the multiple and oddly basic orthographic, spelling, and grammar glitches.

My first overall impression was that it was penned in haste, but this is another factor that seems to clash with the care given the florid capital letters.

 

[Yithian]

Jack the Ripper: The Definitive History by Paul Begg is available to read online here:

https://issuu.com/mindspaceapocalypse/docs/jack_the_ripper_-_the_definitive_hi

Paul Begg is one of the best ripperologists working today, in my opinion.

 

[Spudrick68]

Thank you for the link.

 

[Lodin]

I was strongly considering buying the Robinson book, but I was put off by a number of reviewers that said (I paraphrase) that the Victorian society he portrays never existed and is a projection of his own anti-authoritarian philosophy. I wouldn't have even minded that so much, but again I read that there were digressionary rants in such direction that derailed the narrative.

As I admit, I haven't read it, but as you have: does any of this ring true? Ripperology is a cuthroat business and disingenous summaries all too common.

I bought Bruce Robinson's book for a long plane flight, and failed to get past the first fifty pages, simply because it is painfully bad, a juvenile, badly-written, badly-edited rant which ought to be unpublishable. Take the first paragraph:

Reactionary nostalgia for the proprieties of Victorian England is unfortunate, like a whore looking under the bed for her virginity. Thatcher was perhaps confused because there were no drugs busts in nineteenth-century England, few prosecutions for cruelty to children, and little recorded sex crime.

That's not a fair representation of the quality of writing, in so far as it's better than most of the book. Of course, there's little factual support for any of Robinson's assertions, mostly because evidence is clearly some dubious bourgeois value that he's rejected. Few prosecutions for cruelty to children? Given us some numbers, or some context, or some reason to believe the claims being made. But no, if we had that, most of Robinson's arguments would have been unsustainable...

 

[maximus otter]

I was strongly considering buying the Robinson book, but I was put off by a number of reviewers that said (I paraphrase) that the Victorian society he portrays never existed and is a projection of his own anti-authoritarian philosophy.

I bought and read it, and agree wholeheartedly with the above summary.

If you altered the author’s name to A. Scargill and changed every reference to JTR/Maybrick to M. Thatcher, the book would make almost as much sense.

The review plastered across the cover states “A bloody good read”. The review is from the Guardian.

Shocker.

maximus otter

 

[ramonmercado]

I bought and read it, and agree wholeheartedly with the above summary.

If you altered the author’s name to A. Scargill and changed every reference to JTR/Maybrick to M. Thatcher, the book would make almost as much sense.

The review plastered across the cover states “A bloody good read”. The review is from the Guardian. Shocker.

maximus otter

I am presently co-authoring a book with Arthur Scargill, we are pursuing evidence which points to both Thatcher and Tebbit being chrononauts who were responsible for the JTR murders.

 

[Spookdaddy]

I was strongly considering buying the Robinson book, but I was put off by a number of reviewers that said (I paraphrase) that the Victorian society he portrays never existed and is a projection of his own anti-authoritarian philosophy. I wouldn't have even minded that so much, but again I read that there were digressionary rants in such direction that derailed the narrative...

All of that.

However, I'll admit I quite enjoyed reading it - which is not synonymous with agreeing with the hypothesis, or thinking the style entirely appropriate to the subject matter. (And I was in fact one of the earlier observers on this thread that Robinson's view of Victorian society seemed to have been based largely on horseshit).

He is certainly not a Begg or a Sugden - but, to be fair to the author, neither are the majority; setting aside the swivel-eyed rants and salty language, 95% of stuff written about the Ripper is much worse hogwash than this, and at least Robinson can raise a smile occasionally.

(Incidentally - I've been away from home for a few months, and now suffering bookshelf withdrawals that kindle-methadone and the odd rare purchase of the real stuff can no longer allay. Tom Wescott's The Bank Holiday Murders is on my list for June.)

 

[OrsonSwells]

I am actually staying in the area of the murders, around Spitalfields/Shoreditch, in a couple of weeks. I plan a traditional visit to the Ten Bells but wondered how many of the actual murder sites are still in existence and locatable. I know that Mitre Square is basically still there, but what about the others?

 

[Yithian]

I am actually staying in the area of the murders, around Spitalfields/Shoreditch, in a couple of weeks. I plan a traditional visit to the Ten Bells but wondered how many of the actual murder sites are still in existence and locatable. I know that Mitre Square is basically still there, but what about the others?

Yes, the issue is that the street layout has changed extensively. See here:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/embed?mid=1eGoANVIXFFhu1fLjRWuBatZxT-A&source=embed&hl=en&geocode&ie=UTF8&msa=0&ll=51.51136022621981,-0.0750590000000102&spn=0.00908,0.033023&output=embed&z=15

Some of the shops around the area sell a tiny pocket guide with map, but with preparation you can do much better.

Please, please take photographs and upload them. I never tire of night-time shots of the East End.

Think I've posted this before:

 

[maximus otter]

I am actually staying in the area of the murders, around Spitalfields/Shoreditch, in a couple of weeks. I plan a traditional visit to the Ten Bells but wondered how many of the actual murder sites are still in existence and locatable. I know that Mitre Square is basically still there, but what about the others?

Try and access a copy of the excellent The East End: Then and Now. It details the murder scenes to the inch, with excellent then & now (geddit?) photos.

IIRC one site is now in a school playground, another inside a warehouse.

maximus otter

 

[Ascalon]

Did it a few years ago, when I had a few hours on my own.

Surprisingly easy to get around the sites, and then back to the Ten Bells, for a quiet contemplation.

As far as I remember, the entrance to what was Flower and Dean Street is still there, the site where the Geo profiling said the killer lived.

 

[Dick Turpin]

Did it a few years ago, when I had a few hours on my own.

Surprisingly easy to get around the sites, and then back to the Ten Bells, for a quiet contemplation.

As far as I remember, the entrance to what was Flower and Dean Street is still there, the site where the Geo profiling said the killer lived.

I was born and raised on the borders of Shoreditch and Bethnal Green, and the place has changed considerably in recent years.
The private road of what was Dorset Street (Mary Kelly murder) is no longer a street, just a building site unfortunately – I don’t know what they have got planned, more offices I suppose.
Although, on a positive note, the old Nuns’ convent which stood at the bottom of what was Dorset Street, has been spruced up in recent years, so there’s no plans for demolition there.

 

[Dick Turpin]

I was born and raised on the borders of Shoreditch and Bethnal Green, and the place has changed considerably in recent years.
The private road of what was Dorset Street (Mary Kelly murder) is no longer a street, just a building site unfortunately – I don’t know what they have got planned, more offices I suppose.
Although, on a positive note, the old Nuns’ convent which stood at the bottom of what was Dorset Street, has been spruced up in recent years, so there’s no plans for demolition there.

Also, on my home from work this evening, I made a slight detour and walked through mitre square ( kate eddows ) There has been extensive building work here as well.

It has been kept as a square, however they have taken up all the old cobblestones possibly the very cobblestones the Ripper laid out poor Kate Eddows on......what a shame.

I did take some pics and I’ll see if I can up load them ( I’m not very technical so bear with )

 

[OrsonSwells]

Also, on my home from work this evening, I made a slight detour and walked through mitre square ( kate eddows ) There has been extensive building work here as well.

It has been kept as a square, however they have taken up all the old cobblestones possibly the very cobblestones the Ripper laid out poor Kate Eddows on......what a shame.

I did take some pics and I’ll see if I can up load them ( I’m not very technical so bear with )

Well, I was there the same evening as you then! Due to logistics, I only got to Mitre Square - and the Ten Bells - but, yes, the cobblestones are gone and there is a sculpture there now too which I don't think was in the square before. I was looking for the bench in the Then and Now video but that seemed to have been moved so it was difficult to orientate myself. I did take some pictures but I'll have to work out how to upload iPhone pictures...


Not much to see, I'm afraid!

 

[WanderingFox]

Just started reading The Mammoth Book of Jack the Ripper (2008 reversion). It seemed a good choice, as it first deals with just the facts (Ma'am) and then provides a slew of essays from a range of perspectives. and impressions thus far are quite positive. The timeline alone's provoking questions - for example, how does a dismembered female torso, in a parcel, appear in a cellar of the new Metropolitan Police HQ? This could be quite a ride...

 

[Dick Turpin]

Well, I was there the same evening as you then! Due to logistics, I only got to Mitre Square - and the Ten Bells - but, yes, the cobblestones are gone and there is a sculpture there now too which I don't think was in the square before. I was looking for the bench in the Then and Now video but that seemed to have been moved so it was difficult to orientate myself. I did take some pictures but I'll have to work out how to upload iPhone pictures...
View attachment 10775 View attachment 10776 View attachment 10777

Not much to see, I'm afraid!

Hi Orsan

Thanks for uploading these pics, saves me a job of uploading mine, and yours are much better than mine anyway ha.

The bench which srood on the site where the body was found, would have been in the southwest corner of the sq which ran parallel to mitre street.

Obviously gone now and with the cobble stones taken up there is nothing to see at all as you have said.

Shame.

 

[Yithian]

I swear I read some time ago (or perhaps heard on Rippercast) that despite 'cobblestones' being part of the common parlance, those around Whitechapel aren't technically cobblestones.

Might have to have a search later, but I have the word 'sets' stuck in my mind.

Edit: the old bean isn't too rusty:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sett_(paving)

 

[Spookdaddy]

I occasionally work for my brother (ex Royal Engineers - now runs his own groundworks business) - and he once explained the difference to me.

Setts are worked stone, sit slightly deeper in the ground - and the larger and more regular surface area gives a better seat to your mortar.

I've heard it reported that cobblestones were sacked because they could more easily be dug up from the road to be thrown at policemen's helmets and other strategic targets in times of civil unrest - but I think the reason is probably much more practical than that. (I also suspect that as a naturally occuring product cobbles were effectively harvested, rather than munfactured - and that they simply became harder to source in the large numbers required.)

 

[Dick Turpin]

Well, I was there the same evening as you then! Due to logistics, I only got to Mitre Square - and the Ten Bells - but, yes, the cobblestones are gone and there is a sculpture there now too which I don't think was in the square before. I was looking for the bench in the Then and Now video but that seemed to have been moved so it was difficult to orientate myself. I did take some pictures but I'll have to work out how to upload iPhone pictures...
View attachment 10775 View attachment 10776 View attachment 10777

Not much to see, I'm afraid!

Took a lunchtime stroll around spitalfields today.
The fruit exchange building, which stands on the spot of the Kelly murder, has been completely renovated to the front and looks quite smart.
Alas, the Gun pub has gone. I knew it had of course, but to stand opposite the old corner site, and not see the Gun there, made me feel a bit sad and a little angry to be honest.
The British used to pride themselves on the safeguarding of their heritage, and now it seems we are giving it away by the bucket full.

 

[Yithian]

The British used to pride themselves on the safeguarding of their heritage, and now it seems we are giving it away by the bucket full.

Giving??

I'll have you know we're selling it by the pound!

 

[Dick Turpin]

Giving??

I'll have you know we're selling it by the pound!

All amounts to the same thing at the end of the day Yith

Bastards.

Sorry, I'm a little peeved, even the boss is giving me a wide berth this arvo.

 

[Yithian]

All amounts to the same thing at the end of the day Yith

Bastards.

Sorry, I'm a little peeved, even the boss is giving me a wide berth this arvo.

Joking aside, I know you're right.

More generally, I have heard in the past that any talk of the murder sites themselves being preserved has always met with the local government response that they don't want to commemorate a serial killer.

 

[Dick Turpin]

Joking aside, I know you're right.

More generally, I have heard in the past that any talk of the murder sites themselves being preserved has always met with the local government response that they don't want to commemorate a serial killer.

Yes Yith, this is true.
Tower Hamlets council has always had a hang up with the Ripper case - that’s why they demanded the Jack the Ripper pub name, be reverted to the Ten Bells some years ago ( think very very late 80’s )
I can see where the council’s coming from, but do they have the right, I mean you can’t change or rewrite history….or can you. ..?

 

[Spookdaddy]

It's worth pointing out that some of this heritage was quite horrible to live in - and the people who had to would very likely have gladly seen the back of it.

I mean, I get where people are coming from - but one man's heritage is sometimes another man's damp, mildewed, overcrowded, freezing, rat-infested, cholera-prone, shithole. With outside lavatory and optional roof tiles.

And, to be honest, isn't reverting to the Ten Bells effectively an exercise in heritage - given that this is what it was called at the time of the killings; the Ripper name has clearly been an after the fact attempt to cash-in. (And am I right in thinking that the association is extremely tenuous anyway?)

 

[James_H]

@Spookdaddy is right - additionally a lot of the east end was bombed.