• We have updated the guidelines regarding posting political content: please see the stickied thread on Website Issues.

Swastikas & Disputes About The Swastika Symbol

This is absolutely correct as Hitler and the SS believed in the worship of the state and party as supreme. He eventually planed on doing away with organized religion and persecuted -executed numerous priest and ministers.
I thought Hitler was happy to entertain the notion of a teutonic-nordic paganism?
Replacing Christianity and Judaism with a Germanic pagan religion, perhaps?
 
That was really more of a Himmler-thing.
 
I thought Hitler was happy to entertain the notion of a teutonic-nordic paganism?
Replacing Christianity and Judaism with a Germanic pagan religion, perhaps?
He did include a lot of pageantry and symbolism but this was really used to whip up support for the state - party, not to form a new pagan religion.
 
Jim: What is your source for Hitler planning some kind of coup against religion?
 
I've studied WW2 Europe in detail. I don't have a references off hand. I'd prefer not to make a detailed study of it this time of year (as the weather improve start a detailed study). I don't know if coup would be the right word (perhaps as good as any) but he most definitely did desire a Godless state in the end. He was also willing to go on letting the German people have hold to Christian beliefs as long as they didn't interfere with the state. He was sensitive to public opinion. However take the case of the Hitler youth it was a Godless organization.
 
My first post - although I've been a lurker/reader for some time!

My husband is from Nepal and the Svas~tika (swastika) is a universal symbol for good luck. 'Tika' or 'Tiki' simply means a thing, a bit, a piece and Svas means happy or lucky.

In Hindu culture it can be formed in either direction but sometimes also has little dots in the square space in each of the legs. It is a not uncommon female first name in Nepal.

I've often seen it inside or alongside what we would call 'a star of David' symbol, which seems to be an alternative shorthand symbol for Hinduism in general, which is disconcerting given the recent history of these symbols in European Judaeo-Christian culture! [not my photo, but the general twinning of the symbols in Nepal]
juxtaposition.jpg


It took me a little while to get to get used to seeing it in the homes of Hindu family & friends in the UK and out & about when visiting Nepal but I think it's probably a lucky symbol to as many people (1.5 billion ish?) as it is a symbol of atrocity and war.
 
My first post - although I've been a lurker/reader for some time!

My husband is from Nepal and the Svas~tika (swastika) is a universal symbol for good luck. 'Tika' or 'Tiki' simply means a thing, a bit, a piece and Svas means happy or lucky.

In Hindu culture it can be formed in either direction but sometimes also has little dots in the square space in each of the legs. It is a not uncommon female first name in Nepal.

I've often seen it inside or alongside what we would call 'a star of David' symbol, which seems to be an alternative shorthand symbol for Hinduism in general, which is disconcerting given the recent history of these symbols in European Judaeo-Christian culture! [not my photo, but the general twinning of the symbols in Nepal]
juxtaposition.jpg


It took me a little while to get to get used to seeing it in the homes of Hindu family & friends in the UK and out & about when visiting Nepal but I think it's probably a lucky symbol to as many people (1.5 billion ish?) as it is a symbol of atrocity and war.


What a fantastic first post Joolz - educatiopnal and fascinating! Welcome and keep coming!
 
My first post - although I've been a lurker/reader for some time!

My husband is from Nepal and the Svas~tika (swastika) is a universal symbol for good luck. 'Tika' or 'Tiki' simply means a thing, a bit, a piece and Svas means happy or lucky.

In Hindu culture it can be formed in either direction but sometimes also has little dots in the square space in each of the legs. It is a not uncommon female first name in Nepal.

I've often seen it inside or alongside what we would call 'a star of David' symbol, which seems to be an alternative shorthand symbol for Hinduism in general, which is disconcerting given the recent history of these symbols in European Judaeo-Christian culture! [not my photo, but the general twinning of the symbols in Nepal]
juxtaposition.jpg


It took me a little while to get to get used to seeing it in the homes of Hindu family & friends in the UK and out & about when visiting Nepal but I think it's probably a lucky symbol to as many people (1.5 billion ish?) as it is a symbol of atrocity and war.

Welcome & long may you post.
 
What a fantastic first post Joolz - educatiopnal and fascinating! Welcome and keep coming!

Welcome & long may you post.

Thank you! I'm a natural sceptic and rationalist about most things 'Fortean' but love the subjects and ways we interpret the world around us.

Plus - I adore Rev. Lionel Fanthorpe, he's still occasionally repeated on Radio 4 Extra!
 
The Indian head logo displayed by American pilots in the Lafayette Escadrille featured a swastika symbol on the figure's war bonnet. This adoption of the Native American version of the symbol was prominent enough that some Escadrille aircraft were emblazoned with the swastika alone.

640px-LAFAYETTE_ESCADRILLE_banner.jpg


b3a6d7e17634dc2bc378a11da77c99b1.jpg
 
The Indian head logo displayed by American pilots in the Lafayette Escadrille featured a swastika symbol on the figure's war bonnet. This adoption of the Native American version of the symbol was prominent enough that some Escadrille aircraft were emblazoned with the swastika alone.

640px-LAFAYETTE_ESCADRILLE_banner.jpg
Danged if we didn't see a variation of this design Monday evening on a woman's family relic, a panel from a plane, on the U.S. version of Antiques Roadshow. We weren't surprised by the symbol because we have 19-teens-era buildings in our town with swastika ornamentation. It was the pointy fangs on the chief--they were even longer and more pronounced than this guy's. (Need cross reference to "Coincidences"?)
 
Danged if we didn't see a variation of this design Monday evening on a woman's family relic, a panel from a plane, on the U.S. version of Antiques Roadshow. We weren't surprised by the symbol because we have 19-teens-era buildings in our town with swastika ornamentation. It was the pointy fangs on the chief--they were even longer and more pronounced than this guy's. (Need cross reference to "Coincidences"?)

Yep - I saw that same AR episode, and that's what motivated me to post about the Escadrille insignia. If you run a Google (etc.) image search you'll find a number of examples of the same basic 'Howling Indian Chief' figure. More than a few of them sport the snake-like fangs.

I chose the banner photo as an illustration because it clearly depicted the Lafayette Escadrille affiliation.

The big surprise (to me, at least ... ) was the photo showing the prominent standalone swastika emblem.

I can't get over the fact that the first time American pilots came to fight German pilots they were volunteers using French aircraft proudly sporting swastikas, whereas a quarter century later their Yank flyboy successors brought their own planes and attacked anything displaying the same swastika.
 
Somebody mad at native Americans??
 
If the Svas-tika is meant to be a good luck symbol, imagine what might have happened if the Nazi's hadn't turned it around :eek:
 
The curtains behind the stage for the 2002 World Cup Korea/Japan final draw had a very obvious swastika pattern as did a quickly scrapped Fiorentina away shirt in the early 90s.

When I last worked in the UK there was a nice suburban house set back off the road near my office which one day I noticed had a small swastika above the front door. I assumed it was a family with Far East connections rather than a family with far right connections.
 
LOL An Excellent point. Figure Hitler's ghost is still kicking himself.
 
20170310_134415.jpg


I know the point about East Asian swastikas has been made several times, but I still did a double take when I found this neatly tucked into my front door today.
 
20170310_134415.jpg


I know the point about East Asian swastikas has been made several times, but I still did a double take when I found this neatly tucked into my front door today.
What is that, a 'party' invitation ;) (I know reverse/original swastikas aren't Nazi) ..
 
It's an advertisement for a fortune teller.
 
York Cathedral has them tiled into the floor.
 
Keep in mind that before the little dictator wrecked the symbol it was highly respected. Most people just don't realize the way it faces is significant. I think I said before that my wife's mother made her a bedspread designed with the symbol for girl scouts. Suppose to be very lucky. I guess Hitler turning a good luck symbol backwards would indicate bad luck. Served him right. It is a shame the symbol is so hated today. Turned properly it is NOT a hate symbol. But people are people, I guess.
 
Well he/she got your attention.

Quite: I kept the card as it's a pretty little thing.

Vaguely Fortean point: the central line of text on the card alludes to a superstition that when a fresh concern enters your mind, a fresh adviser will offer thr best advice. Great when touting for new clients; terrible for customer retention!
 
I never use to put any faith in fortune telling. My religion frowns on the practice
They don't say it can't be done, just that it shouldn't be done. My parents told me that fortune tellers were just really good at reading "human nature" and would pick up cues from gestures and mannerisms that the client showed. So, when I discovered that my wife's mother was very good at reading cards I had to put her to the test. She was so correct it was scary. She predicted things in my immediate future that she could not possibly have known beforeforehand. Things that I had no knowledge of. Events that were totally out of her context and unknown to me at the time. When she told me of these events, they made no sense to me until they happened. My wife can also read cards, but quit several years ago because too many people were thinking she made the events happen in some way. For example she told one young lady that she would be pregnant in the following year. She thought that was funny as she didn't even have a boyfriend and was a virgin. It happened. So I kinda agree with the church. A true fortune teller can predict the future but they shouldn't. And we all know there are a lot of charlatans out there. A true fortune teller does NOT charge for their services.
 
Between my wife and I we have kept the local hospital quite profitable. But I have been posting. Just not much on swastikas. Doctor says I'm prone to sudden death. I said, What's the downside to that?" At my age that would far preferable to laying comatose in a hospital bed or rest home. Perhaps I sound morbid by I had to watch my mother die slowly and my Dad fade away. Rather not put my few remaining relatives through that. I've been posting along on hometown ghosts and Cryptids (Tas Wolf).
 
Hair raising.

A hairdressers in Taiwan has covered up its street signs, after it was criticised for having a logo similar to the Nazi swastika, it's reported.

According to the Taiwan News website, the Berlin Hair Salon in the northern city of Hsinchu has covered its logos with a magic marker, so that only the name of the hair salon can be seen, after a week of angry comments.

The salon has also changed the logo on its Facebook page, after it received hundreds of negative comments online. It has been criticised by the region's German and Jewish communities.

The Liberty Times newspaper said that owner Hsu Chen-yang had originally defended his business, claiming the design was merely four razor blades. He said that the salon's design was created by an external designer, and denied there was any relationship between the shop's logo and historical events.

But he told the EBC broadcaster on 19 September that he had had people urinating and defecating outside the premises, and that he had taken steps to protect his business. He also said that he will speak to a designer about a new logo.

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-45589722
 
A fascinating and difficult subject, made more complex by some deeply embedded inaccurate assumptions and entrenched attitudes.

The Nazis used only one version of the swastika. It was not, as many people have said, "reversed".

In various cultures, the swastika has been used right handed, and in other cultures, left handed. The Wikipedia article shows one illustration of two mirrored swastikas, one being associated with Buddhism, the other with Hinduism and Jainism. Apart from their direction, they are otherwise identical.

One unusual aspect of the Nazi swastika was that it was diagonal. Almost all swastikas from traditional cultures are displayed with the arms horizontal and vertical.

However, even the diagonal alignment was not unique to the Nazis: the Latvian airforce also used a diagonal swastika until 1940.

Most variants of the swastika have 4 arms, each of which has one bend or corner in it, like the well-known Nazi symbol. However, there are many variants. Some have eight arms. Some have two bends in each arm. In some cases, the arms are forked. At what point these stop being "swastikas" and become something else with similar characteristics is entirely subjective.

"Swastika" comes from a Sanskrit word and originally referred to the shape in one very specific cultural context. It has now come to be used unthinkingly for many symbols from around the world, simply because they share some geometrical features.

The Isle of Man flag, with its 3-legged symbol has some of the characteristics of a swastika.

The old Cyclists Touring Club logo, a wheel with three wings radiating from the centre, has the same characteristics.

We now have an insane situation in which an ancient symbol with generally positive meanings has been ruined by its abuse by one political party in one country for one terrible but very short period of time. As someone said upthread, we don't ban crosses because the KKK use them.

However, just as "the meaning of a word is its use", the meaning of a symbol is inextricably linked with how it is generally perceived. Anyone who tries to justify using the swastika in western Europe or Israel on the basis that it is an "ancient symbol of good luck" is courting trouble unless they can show that they have a genuine, direct and personal cultural link to a religion in which the swastika is a symbol of good luck.

That said, banning it is not the way forward. Ban a symbol and it goes underground, or is replaced by something else less obvious. Far right groups use "18" (as in Combat 18) because Hitler's initials were the 1st and 8th letters of the alphabet. The Valknut has also become a symbol of the far right, but its superficial similarity to Celtic knots means that the ordinary person in the street may not realise what they are seeing.

Society and the media are also hypocritical about Hitler, Nazi symbolism and uniforms. It is wrong to go to a fancy dress party in a Nazi uniform, but perfectly acceptable to dress as Julius Caesar, or Attila the Hun, or Napoleon. In many countries you can no longer call your child Adolf (a once respectable name) but you can call your child Joe, Joseph, or Josef (as in Stalin).

(For the avoidance of doubt or misunderstanding: I am not in any way advocating the far right. Hitler and the Nazis were evil.)
 
Back
Top