• We have updated the guidelines regarding posting political content: please see the stickied thread on Website Issues.

Who Ya Gonna Call? Ghost Hunters & Hunting

Sharon Hill said:
Do you realize there are thousands of groups made up of individuals that take this very seriously? They spend quite a pretty sum buying equipment, traveling, and gaining access to "prime" sites. It's now part of their identity, how they define themselves - as "paranormal investigators" (which are different than "ghost hunters". There is some research on this including my own. Here are just the books that have documented the trend that begins in earnest around 2000:

Hill, S. (2017). Scientifical Americans: The Culture of Amateur Paranormal Investigation.
Hanks, M. (2016). Haunted heritage: the cultural politics of ghost tourism, populism, and the past.
Hill, A. (2010). Paranormal Media: Audiences, Spirits and Magic in Popular Culture.
Click to expand...

What's the difference between that and the spiritualism craze of over a hundred years ago, with all the photos with cotton wool on them as "proof"? It's a result of some social malaise, a seeking after something science or organised religion cannot satisfy, but then you could say that about any fad or cult. It may lead to something, there's still a Spiritualist Church after all, or it may peter out like many other aspects of interest in the paranormal. These things go in waves. As Frank Zappa said about going to church, "It's just an excuse to hang out with your friends".
 
GNC said:
It's a result of some social malaise, a seeking after something science or organised religion cannot satisfy
Click to expand...
You might well be right. Probably be why I'm reading the fortean forums as well :)

It's interesting that there's a 'sciencey' element in that all that equipment costs lots of money, so it "must" be doing something and proving something? More hi-tech than just sitting in a circle in the dark waiting for the Other Side to communicate. But then if things and noises from other realms are by their nature supernatural, how can we hope to monitor them with our sciencey equipment? hmm it's a tricky one.
 
Eponastill said:
You might well be right. Probably be why I'm reading the fortean forums as well
Click to expand...

All the Fortean stuff is like a hobby or an interest, not something to live one's life by. You don't walk round wondering if there's a portal to hell opening up round the corner or a flying saucer landing on the playing field. Not unless you're really stuck for guidance in life.
 
GNC said:
What's the difference between that and the spiritualism craze of over a hundred years ago, with all the photos with cotton wool on them as "proof"? It's a result of some social malaise, a seeking after something science or organised religion cannot satisfy, but then you could say that about any fad or cult. It may lead to something, there's still a Spiritualist Church after all, or it may peter out like many other aspects of interest in the paranormal. These things go in waves. As Frank Zappa said about going to church, "It's just an excuse to hang out with your friends".
Click to expand...

I think it's more complex than you suggest. Many of the people involved in American ghost hunting, at least, are underemployed or unemployed. They are seeking a place of importance in society that their daily life and job can't provide - a sense of being respected. All paranormal investigation (ghosts, cryptids, UFOs) allow for a low bar of entry - you have to read a bit or watch TV or have an encounter. No heavy lifting required. Yet, the media and now a substantial amount of the public treats you as some expert or at least an authority. They want to interview you, you may get on TV, you may get invited to the local college or community center to give a talk. They use jargon that sets them apart from the non-specialists. It's all made to seem very high tech and precise. But it's playing pretend scientist. In some cases, it's like LARPing Ghostbusters. I'd argue there were legitimate scientists involved in investigating spiritualism. At the inception of the SPR and even long after, top scientific figures were involved. You can't say that about today's paranormal culture. Not comparable. (In the UK, there is a strong thread of reclaiming history as one's own by reconstructing a "haunted" narrative that you can fill in.)

Most of my book is on why these groups invoke sciencey sounding jargon, imagery, behaviors and equipment. They know that science is valued in our society as providing a credible source of knowledge. They haven't any formal training, so they do what they have seen scientists do on TV and in fiction. And much of those who are interesting in these claims actually buy that display as legit.

I'm all for following your passion and seeking personal answers and enlightenment but when you represent in public skills and credentials that you do not actually have (like conducting "scientific" research and investigation), then you deserve to be called out on it.
 
Sharon Hill said:
I think it's more complex than you suggest. Many of the people involved in American ghost hunting, at least, are underemployed or unemployed. They are seeking a place of importance in society that their daily life and job can't provide - a sense of being respected. All paranormal investigation (ghosts, cryptids, UFOs) allow for a low bar of entry - you have to read a bit or watch TV or have an encounter. No heavy lifting required. Yet, the media and now a substantial amount of the public treats you as some expert or at least an authority. They want to interview you, you may get on TV, you may get invited to the local college or community center to give a talk. They use jargon that sets them apart from the non-specialists. It's all made to seem very high tech and precise. But it's playing pretend scientist. In some cases, it's like LARPing Ghostbusters. I'd argue there were legitimate scientists involved in investigating spiritualism. At the inception of the SPR and even long after, top scientific figures were involved. You can't say that about today's paranormal culture. Not comparable. (In the UK, there is a strong thread of reclaiming history as one's own by reconstructing a "haunted" narrative that you can fill in.)

Most of my book is on why these groups invoke sciencey sounding jargon, imagery, behaviors and equipment. They know that science is valued in our society as providing a credible source of knowledge. They haven't any formal training, so they do what they have seen scientists do on TV and in fiction. And much of those who are interesting in these claims actually buy that display as legit.

I'm all for following your passion and seeking personal answers and enlightenment but when you represent in public skills and credentials that you do not actually have (like conducting "scientific" research and investigation), then you deserve to be called out on it.
Click to expand...

Great points made there, I see you're on our side!
 
Sharon Hill said:
I think it's more complex than you suggest. Many of the people involved in American ghost hunting, at least, are underemployed or unemployed. They are seeking a place of importance in society that their daily life and job can't provide - a sense of being respected. All paranormal investigation (ghosts, cryptids, UFOs) allow for a low bar of entry - you have to read a bit or watch TV or have an encounter. No heavy lifting required. Yet, the media and now a substantial amount of the public treats you as some expert or at least an authority. They want to interview you, you may get on TV, you may get invited to the local college or community center to give a talk. They use jargon that sets them apart from the non-specialists. It's all made to seem very high tech and precise. But it's playing pretend scientist.

I'd argue there were legitimate scientists involved in investigating spiritualism. At the inception of the SPR and even long after, top scientific figures were involved. You can't say that about today's paranormal culture. Not comparable.
Click to expand...

You're quite right, but the spiritualist 'mediums' themselves quite often came from the middle and lower-middle classes, and the motivations for them to enter the spirit industry often matched those you outline while discussing contemporary 'ghostbusters'. Indeed, the very transgressive nature of these investigations that crossed boundaries of age, class and gender while maintaining a veneer of respectability were part of the attraction for the gentlemen of the SPR and other less august bodies. One's mind here turns to W.T. Stead and Gladstone combing the city streets after dark for trafficked children and fallen women.

I'm not prepared to say that there were invariably sinister motives, but desires (sexual and otherwise) have a habit of becoming unconsciously diverted, displaced and channeled, and soon, without knowing quite why, a man of station quickly starts to find it really important to get to the bottom of this or that mystery or ensure that these poor girls have roofs over their heads.

The consensus when it comes to the SPR is not that it was pseudo-science, but rather a failed science--an attempt to stake out a scientific framework in a field that appeared promising yet failed to deliver. Anybody who has read the journals of the time cannot fail to be impressed by how earnest the speculation is, with cross-disciplinary references and rigorous refinement of method throughout (although a few of the chaps suffered excessive credulity off the page for their own psychological reasons).
 
Dropship said:
Topic title: Who Ya Gonna Call? Ghost Hunters & Hunting.

Well we could try a little self-help first to get rid of ghosts, for example I read an account by one guy who kept waking up in the night sensing a "dark presence" and started reciting the Lord's Prayer- "Our father in heaven..." and the sense of oppression vamoosed.
Click to expand...
This is not necessarily an indication of the existence of God or efficacy of prayer. It may just mean that spirits don't want to hang around someone who is Bible-thumpingly religious.
 
Sharon Hill said:
... Many of the people involved in American ghost hunting, at least, are underemployed or unemployed. They are seeking a place of importance in society that their daily life and job can't provide - a sense of being respected. All paranormal investigation (ghosts, cryptids, UFOs) allow for a low bar of entry - you have to read a bit or watch TV or have an encounter. No heavy lifting required. Yet, the media and now a substantial amount of the public treats you as some expert or at least an authority. ...
Click to expand...

This summary overview reflects some of the personal backgrounds, motivations and aspirations I've sensed (or even heard explicitly cited) in encounters with people who've become avid metal detectorists.
 
There are a lot of tropes in that industry: For some reason they like to research in the dark, while most people report seeing apparitions when the light is on. They see something in the corner of their eye which of course was not recorded on camera. They use an electromagnetic sensor with blinking lights to communicate with the apparitions.
 
Sharon Hill said:
I think it's more complex than you suggest. Many of the people involved in American ghost hunting, at least, are underemployed or unemployed. They are seeking a place of importance in society that their daily life and job can't provide - a sense of being respected. All paranormal investigation (ghosts, cryptids, UFOs) allow for a low bar of entry - you have to read a bit or watch TV or have an encounter. No heavy lifting required. Yet, the media and now a substantial amount of the public treats you as some expert or at least an authority. They want to interview you, you may get on TV, you may get invited to the local college or community center to give a talk. They use jargon that sets them apart from the non-specialists. It's all made to seem very high tech and precise. But it's playing pretend scientist. In some cases, it's like LARPing Ghostbusters. I'd argue there were legitimate scientists involved in investigating spiritualism. At the inception of the SPR and even long after, top scientific figures were involved. You can't say that about today's paranormal culture. Not comparable. (In the UK, there is a strong thread of reclaiming history as one's own by reconstructing a "haunted" narrative that you can fill in.)

Most of my book is on why these groups invoke sciencey sounding jargon, imagery, behaviors and equipment. They know that science is valued in our society as providing a credible source of knowledge. They haven't any formal training, so they do what they have seen scientists do on TV and in fiction. And much of those who are interesting in these claims actually buy that display as legit.

I'm all for following your passion and seeking personal answers and enlightenment but when you represent in public skills and credentials that you do not actually have (like conducting "scientific" research and investigation), then you deserve to be called out on it.
Click to expand...

As Escargot says, all good points, but another fact is there's always going to be a lot of people who believe, indeed, put their faith in, absolute bullshit. No matter how often the flaws are pointed out, they will always find something to boost their false beliefs, because they want to believe (to coin a phrase).

They'll even get angry with you when you highlight these flaws - how often do you see someone have their faith in something exposed as a sham say, "My goodness, you were absolutely correct, I've been a fool!" It does happen, but the pattern of falsehoods will more probably persist - take the example of the televangelists, they often land in scandal but they're not going away any time soon.

We like to think we live in broadly reasonable times, but we don't really. So there will enablers and suckers, just as there always have been, and sometimes that's dangerous, and sometimes it's just because we like telling entertaining stories. And don't dismiss the element of doubt!
 
Sharon Hill said:
I'm all for following your passion and seeking personal answers and enlightenment but when you represent in public skills and credentials that you do not actually have (like conducting "scientific" research and investigation), then you deserve to be called out on it.
Click to expand...
Yep.
 
Yithian said:
The consensus when it comes to the SPR is not that it was pseudo-science, but rather a failed science--an attempt to stake out a scientific framework in a field that appeared promising yet failed to deliver. Anybody who has read the journals of the time cannot fail to be impressed by how earnest the speculation is, with cross-disciplinary references and rigorous refinement of method throughout (although a few of the chaps suffered excessive credulity off the page for their own psychological reasons).
Click to expand...

It's amazing how many serious paranormal investigators insist that the study of hauntings is a "proto" or new science, as if no one but they have ever thought about it and hypothesized explanations before. Though they rarely seem to actually test hypotheses. I might have said it before here but my favorite way to reveal ghost hunting wankers is to ask them about the SPR. In the U.S., most of these weekend "warriors" (this actual term was used by Paranormal State guys and gals) have never even heard of them.

To point out about diversity, it still exists as a significant quality for ghost investigators. While mostly white, diversity is quite high and females are considered equal on the team. Well, the men still are the ones who usually fiddle with the gadgets while, generally, the women are considered sensitives but that's not across the board. A remnant of the history of the field?
 
Sharon Hill said:
... In the U.S., most of these weekend "warriors" (this actual term was used by Paranormal State guys and gals) have never even heard of them. ...
Click to expand...

"Weekend warrior" is a longstanding American colloquial phrase denoting someone who pursues a vocation / avocation on the weekend or otherwise outside normal working hours.

Musicians who had day jobs and performed on weekends were called weekend warriors 50 years ago.

The phrase was also widely applied even farther back to the part-time civilian members of the National Guard and Reserves. To the best of my knowledge this usage wasn't necessarily considered pejorative, and it appears to be the origin of the phrase ...

1956: First known usage

Title: Military Public Works Construction. Author(s) United States. Congress. Senate. Committee on Armed Services. Subcommittee on Real Estate and Military Construction Publisher U. S. Govt. Print. Page 290: "At Anacostia, the training that is done to naval aviators who are in the Reserve Services, weekend warrior(s) as it were, and they come to Anacostia to get their refresher training."
Click to expand...

SOURCE: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/weekend_warrior
 
*looks round in surprise * I remember when this thread was just me posting reports with nobody making comments or showing much interest
 
Got an email from the ghost club about Saturdays investigation. Where would we be without the sensitives, if your home wasn't haunted before it will be when they are finished.
Hi all,

Hope you enjoyed Saturday night. At the first look it doesn't seem too much was experienced physically or audibly but looks like a fair bit of information gathered by the sensitives. So if you can get any clips over in the next couple of weeks that would be much appreciated and any clips to include times and which room plus most importantly the equipment used to record on?
 
titch said:
Got an email from the ghost club about Saturdays investigation. Where would we be without the sensitives, if your home wasn't haunted before it will be when they are finished.
Hi all,

Hope you enjoyed Saturday night. At the first look it doesn't seem too much was experienced physically or audibly but looks like a fair bit of information gathered by the sensitives. So if you can get any clips over in the next couple of weeks that would be much appreciated and any clips to include times and which room plus most importantly the equipment used to record on?
Click to expand...

Have you ever personally experienced spookiness on any of your excursions?
 
titch said:
Got an email from the ghost club about Saturdays investigation. Where would we be without the sensitives, if your home wasn't haunted before it will be when they are finished.
Hi all,

Hope you enjoyed Saturday night. At the first look it doesn't seem too much was experienced physically or audibly but looks like a fair bit of information gathered by the sensitives. So if you can get any clips over in the next couple of weeks that would be much appreciated and any clips to include times and which room plus most importantly the equipment used to record on?
Click to expand...

What you need is this dog.

1548885871686.jpeg
 
Back at the debate, I note @Sharon Hill has been complained about in the Letters page of the latest FT magazine for being "elitist" because she and a few others have the temerity to suggest a more rigorous approach is needed if science is applied to the paranormal. The author even brings class into it (as in she's anti-working class because they all believe in ghosts and she doesn't, apparently).
 
GNC said:
Back at the debate, I note @Sharon Hill has been complained about in the Letters page of the latest FT magazine for being "elitist" because she and a few others have the temerity to suggest a more rigorous approach is needed if science is applied to the paranormal. The author even brings class into it (as in she's anti-working class because they all believe in ghosts and she doesn't, apparently).
Click to expand...

It's nice to be noticed! But it would be nicer if this guy didn't make such outrageous assumptions about me (and other things). (He might be a ghost hunter.) He seems to be a Zak Bagans fan boy. So, I don't really value his opinion very highly. But to say that "entrepreneurial efforts of such TV investigators manage to fund far more investigations than academic parapsychology" is pretty bizarre. Does that mean we all should just skip with the scientific experiments and peer review and just do reality TV?

Me, elitist? Naw. But I am damn cynical about the future when so many people accept dramatic drivel as legit.
 
Last edited:
Sharon Hill said:
Me, elitist? Naw. But I am damn cynical about the future when so many people accept dramatic drivel as legit.
Click to expand...
Yep.

And...

Bly's Second Law

High public interest in science without growing public understanding of science is worse than low public interest in science.
 
titch said:
On my second hunt, at Newsham hospital, December 2014,my phone seemed to take two pictures on its own, that's the best thing that's happened in hundreds of hours of silently waiting...
Click to expand...

Yay, something like that happened when I was testing my new digital camera at home, the automatic focus bars locked onto pieces of furniture etc quite normally as I panned slowly around the room, but when I stopped panning they locked onto something invisible and followed it across the frame as if it was moving, but like an idiot I forgot to press the shutter release or I might have captured something, duh..
 
Here's an interesting thing we could all try (although experienced ghost/UFO hunters will already know)-
Pick up your TV remote and press a few buttons and the light will always stay jet black as if it's not lit.
But if we look at the light through our digital cam's viewfinder we'll see the light is on, like in this pic of my own remote-

remote-flash.jpg


So obviously gadgets can see things that our eyes can't, and it might therefore be a good idea for us to scan around a haunted location while looking through the viewfinder, or scan around the night sky from a hilltop..
 
Sharon Hill said:
Me, elitist? Naw. But I am damn cynical about the future when so many people accept dramatic drivel as legit.
Click to expand...

Yes, until ghosthunters produce clear evidence of the paranormal we have to remain cynical, but as far as I know it hasn't happened yet.
At least ghosthunters have got the nerve to go into spooky locations in the first place, so full credit to them for that..:)

PS- This vid is interesting as they seem to have captured a human-like shape crawling across the floor on all fours from right to left (1:45) before dropping onto its belly and slithering off like a lizard, but it could be a trick of the light or whatever-


It's very faint but I've outlined it in this screenshot-

Clipboard01mm.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top