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Hacking For UFO Secrets

Kondoru said:
And how do they describe him as `seriously ill?`

This case has dragged on far too long, especialy as he claims to be guilty of `something`

Do we have laws against hacking in this country?

Two Home Office psychiatrists found that apart from Aspergers he has psychiatric problems which would likely grow worse if he was extradited and could result in him attempting suicide. Several psychiatrists for the defence reached similar conclusions.

Indeed the case has dragged on for too long, he could have been tried in the UK from the beginning. There are laws against hacking in the UK.

From what Ms May has said a lot more such cases will now be tried in the UK.
 
Indeed the case has dragged on for too long, he could have been tried in the UK from the beginning. There are laws against hacking in the UK.

As with Babar Ahmad, this case has dragged on so long because McKinnon and his legal team have fought the extradition at every turn. This is understandable, but it's a bit hypocritical to turn around and then complain about the delays.

I wish McKinnon no ill, but as I pointed out earlier on the thread he was offered a deal of a short period in a US jail, followed by repatriation to a UK prison, which he turned down. His lawyers' claims of "60 years in a supermax" were pure hyperbole but were eaten up by a gullible media.

I also find the medical grounds somewhat surprising. Who wouldn't be depressed and possibly suicidal at the thought of a prison sentence in a foreign jail? It seems to set a curious precedent if criminals can escape sanction because they are anxious or depressed about the consequences.
 
But the whole hacking thing was blown out of all proportion, it doesn't take much hacking when their passwords are set as password, I mean how stupid was that?
 
But the whole hacking thing was blown out of all proportion, it doesn't take much hacking when their passwords are set as password, I mean how stupid was that?

No indeed. But because you have a crap lock on your door doesn't make it okay for someone to burgle you. Similarly, you don't normally decide not to call the police but instead t hire said burglar as you security consultant.

Clearly the US military security was shockingly bad, but far from being the hacking genius people seem to be making McKinnon out to be, he was a script kiddie who got a bit cocky and got himself intao very serious trouble.

As I say I don't wish him any ill will but the biased way this story has been repored by almost the entire British media is quite jaw dropping and probably belongs in the pisspoor journalism thread.
 
Quake42 said:
you don't normally decide not to call the police but instead t hire said burglar as you security consultant.
I believe there have been cases where that did indeed happen, as they say " the best gamekeeper is a poacher".
 
I believe there have been cases where that did indeed happen, as they say " the best gamekeeper is a poacher".

Yes, but it's not very common, and it's not the typical immediate reaction. And McKinnon wasn't a top hacker at all. As you say the "security" he breached was pretty much non-existent. He wasn't doing anything that a lot of nerdy 13 year olds couldn't do from their bedrooms. So the all too frequent calls for the US to hire him as an IT secuity consultant are rather silly on more than one level.

this will only encourage others.

I don't actually think it will particularly and in reality McKinnon has suffered enough, even if much of that suffering was self-inflicted. My gripe is less with him and more with the ludicrous reporting of this case.
 
It wouldn't surprise me if there was a some collusion between May and the US in the decision not to extradite him, how bad would it have looked if the US media had reported how lax was the security of their defence headquarters?
 
The whole business of 'hacking' - should be cracking - is grossly misreported in the media. Every time I hear of phone 'hacking' I cringe - because its just evidence of the media latching on to a catchy phrase without actually understanding what means or doesn't mean. And the fact that 'hacking' is a criminal offence is an example of official illiteracy driven by the media - you want to imprison good programmers is what it translates as.

A hacker is just a programmer who can do things other programmers can't. She/he can 'hack it' - in the sense of 'is able to get the required job done, quickly, but possibly by unorthodox or unnecessarily clever means'.

A cracker is someone who breaks into other people's systems without their permission. I used to have a job that involved (occasionally) breaking into other people's systems _with_ their permission to test their security. This was after I left the civil service, you may or may not be glad to hear. And I was pretty good at it, if I say so myself - once cracked an 'unbreakable' password protection product for PC's in 8 hours. Never got the promised holiday the manufacturers (who shall be nameless) promised to anyone who broke it.

What this guy did is more akin to walking into a field with an open gate than burglary. Which might be trespass, but you have to prove harm came of it.

Arguably here the benefit - presumably the US _have_ tightened their security measures - outweighs the harm. In any case, we used to have a principle in law that in order to commit a crime you had criminal intent as well as actually breaking a law. Most crackers have no criminal intent, they treat it the same way someone else would treat a crossword puzzle.
 
Maybe the US Court got a bit scared of what 'someone with Asperger's Syndrome' would testify on oath to what data he found and decided to firefight it before it happened.
 
jimv1 said:
Maybe the US Court got a bit scared of what 'someone with Asperger's Syndrome' would testify on oath to what data he found and decided to firefight it before it happened.

Yep...they may have left him alone if he hadn't said that he'd found some interesting UFO/aliens stuff.
 
The whole business of 'hacking' - should be cracking - is grossly misreported in the media. Every time I hear of phone 'hacking' I cringe - because its just evidence of the media latching on to a catchy phrase without actually understanding what means or doesn't mean.

[...]

What this guy did is more akin to walking into a field with an open gate than burglary. Which might be trespass, but you have to prove harm came of it.

I don't doubt that the media is quite illiterate about this area (it is, after all, about most other things). Unless I'm very much mistaken though, McKinnon has admitted to actions which would amount to a criminal offence in both the US and UK. So I don't thing the trespass analogy really works.

Yep...they may have left him alone if he hadn't said that he'd found some interesting UFO/aliens stuff.

Again, I'm pretty sure the "looking for evidence of UFOs" claim only came some time after McKinnon was arrested. When Jon Ronson (in a very sympathetic interview) asked him what this interesting stuff was, he got a vague reference to "extra-territorial officers" but nothing else.
 
Hacker Gary McKinnon will not face UK charges

Computer hacker Gary McKinnon, whose extradition to the US was blocked, will not face charges in the UK, bringing to an end a 10-year legal battle.
Director of Public Prosecutions Keir Starmer QC said the chances of a successful conviction were "not high".

Janis Sharp, Mr McKinnon's mother, said the news was "amazing" and she was grateful the case was "all over now".
Mr McKinnon, 46, admits accessing US government computers but says he was looking for evidence of UFOs.

The US Department of Justice said it would continue to collaborate with the UK government on a "wide range of shared concerns".

Mr Starmer announced the decision not to prosecute some three months after Home Secretary Theresa May stopped Mr McKinnon's extradition.

The US authorities tried to extradite Mr McKinnon to face charges of causing $800,000 (£487,000) worth of damage to military computer systems and he would have faced up to 60 years in prison if convicted.

Gary McKinnon's mother: ''It's been life destroying, it's difficult to explain how bad it's been, and to have this over is amazing''
Mr McKinnon, who had been fighting extradition since 2002, suffers from Asperger's syndrome.
In October, the Briton was permitted to stay in the UK on human rights grounds after medical reports showed he was very likely to try to kill himself if extradited.

In a statement, Mr Starmer said: "The potential difficulties in bringing a case in England and Wales now should not be underestimated, not least the passage of time, the logistics of transferring sensitive evidence prepared for a court in the US to London for trial, the participation of US government witnesses in the trial and the need fully to comply with the duties of disclosure imposed on the CPS.
"The prospects of a conviction against Mr McKinnon which reflects the full extent of his alleged criminality are not high."

He concluded: "Against this background, the joint CPS/police panel recommended to the Assistant Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police that he should not commence a new criminal investigation into Mr McKinnon. The Assistant Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police has accepted that advice."

Following the decision not to bring charges in the UK, Mr McKinnon's mother said: "I'm very pleased and glad Gary's not going to have to go through another long term of trauma.
"I would love more than anything now for Mr Obama to give Gary a Christmas pardon."

She told BBC News: "Gary admitted to the intrusion, he always denied the damage. I feel the 10 years have been gruelling, it's been life-destroying. It's difficult to explain how bad it's been.
"To have this over is amazing. Gary's gone through enough. Other people have been accused of more serious hacking in this country and they've been given a £1,000 fine and a very short community sentence.

"Gary regrets what he's done. He wishes he hadn't done it. He wishes he hadn't upset the Americans. We all regret it. But I'm grateful to Theresa May that this is all over now."

Mr McKinnon's lawyer Karen Todner said she had "mixed feelings" about the decision.
She said: "I am pleased he is not going to be prosecuted because I wouldn't want to think he would ever spend any time in prison given his mental situation.

"But I am disappointed because the extradition warrant is still outstanding because he can't travel anywhere outside of the UK and will have this hanging over him until it's resolved.
"We have discussed approaching president Obama and asking for a pardon."

The US Department of Justice said its "law enforcement relationship between the United States and the United Kingdom has always been predicated on trust, respect, and the common goals of protecting our nations and eliminating safe havens for criminals".

It added: "Notwithstanding the home secretary's decision in the McKinnon case, our extradition treaty serves the interests of both our nations, and the United States values our continuing collaboration with the CPS and British law enforcement authorities on a wide range of shared concerns."

US authorities have described Glasgow-born Mr McKinnon's actions as the "biggest military computer hack of all time" that was "calculated to influence and affect the US government by intimidation and coercion".
Mr McKinnon lost appeals in the High Court and the House of Lords against his extradition, but two years ago a High Court judge ruled Mr McKinnon would be at risk of suicide if sent away.

Earlier this year Mrs May put the decision on hold, in order that Home Office appointed psychiatrists could conduct an assessment of Mr McKinnon's mental state.

The psychiatrists concluded Mr McKinnon would be likely to take his own life if he was sent to face trial in the US.
Mr McKinnon was arrested in 2002 and again in 2005 before an order for his extradition was made in July 2006 under the 2003 Extradition Act.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20730627

So, is that it? All Over? Close the thread..? ;)
 
Kondoru said:
Um, has he commited a crime, or not??

Proving that he actually committed a crime would be difficult under English law. If the CPS consider that there is little chance of a conviction then they will not proceed with a prosecution. Also there is a good chance that a trial would turn into a circus about whether or not the US military were hiding UFO secrets or even aliens.

If that were the case then a trial could drag out over weeks at huge expense to the taxpayer.

Best to let things lie.
 
ramonmercado said:
Best to let things lie.

Yeah. They don't want the truth about UFOs to come out.
 
Im just worried that some members of society might construe this as an OK to Hack, thats all.
 
Kondoru said:
Im just worried that some members of society might construe this as an OK to Hack, thats all.

I don't think so. Gary was caught up in a legal quagmire for years and faced the very real prospect of extradition. It was only because he suffered from several disabilities that he managed to evade extradition.

It doesn't make hacking appear very attractive imho.
 
An eminently sensible view and one not held by many aspies, Im afraid.
 
Interesting interview with Gary McKinnon. The UFO thing is not the only interesting item... right at the end, Gary mentions something that is just downright weird. Freaky-deaky.
 
...The UFO thing is not the only interesting item... right at the end, Gary mentions something that is just downright weird. Freaky-deaky. ...

What, specifically, are you referring to?
 
What, specifically, are you referring to?
Gary recounts an incident where he awoke to a sharp pain in his foot to find one (or maybe it was two) circular hole punch(es) of skin removed.

He said he woke at once from the sharp pain then instantly fell asleep again [or became unconscious] & that when he woke in the morning, from one of the holes was hanging a perfectly circular flap of skin. The holes were 5mm diameter. He didn't get a photo.

It does seem extraordinary the lengths the US government went to to extradite in an effort to put him on trial etc. He says he didn't do any 'hacking' whatsoever. He found ways into databases simply by searching for ones where the password was 'password' or had been left blank. Nothing sophisticated. This was in the days of dial-up as well, nearly 20 years ago.
 
Gary recounts an incident where he awoke to a sharp pain in his foot to find one (or maybe it was two) circular hole punch(es) of skin removed.
Yup, that's it - that's what I meant.
It's at 51:45 onwards in that video.
 
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