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Odd Sayings

Does anyone know the origin of the (I think) Cockney slang term "rozzer" for police officer? - or "rhino" for money? As in the immortal words of some unknown poet, "It's crackers to bend a rozzer with duff rhino."

Meaning "It's unwise to attempt to bribe a police officer with counterfeit money."

To bend, in this sense, means to bribe or to pay off; as in "a bent brief", meaning a career criminal's tame lawyer.

Then there's the other use of the word "bent", as in "bent out of shape", meaning annoyed or indignant, usually over some minor matter. For example, " 'E'd get bent out of shape if 'is shoelace wuz untied."

In Cheshire, and probably elsewhere, "keggled" means physically bent out of shape, as in "Keggled like a sheet o' corrugated iron that a lorry's driven ower." And then there's "gibbled", which I've only ever heard in use in Western Canada but is most likely more widespread, meaning fairly seriously damaged, or damaged beyond repair, or when applied to a person, "A few boards shy of a load."

Vernacular English is wonderful.
It the UK the usual application for someone not quite right in the head dept is 'a sandwich short of a picnic' :p
As to your question about 'rozzers' it comes from a colloquial name form Robert, as in Robert Peel.

You might be surprised to learn that this slang term for the police goes back to at least the late 19th Century. The most accepted explanation is that it’s a punny play on the name of Sir Robert Peel, founder of London’s Metropolitan Police.

https://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2013/jan/16/straight-rozzers/
 
RE: "Rozzer"

There doesn't seem to be any consensus on its origin ...

NOUN informal British
A police officer.
Origin Late 19th century of unknown origin.

https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/rozzer
==========

You might be surprised to learn that this slang term for the police goes back to at least the late 19th Century. The most accepted explanation is that it’s a punny play on the name of Sir Robert Peel, founder of London’s Metropolitan Police. Similar UK slang terms such as “bobbies” and “peelers” are more direct vamps on his name. To American ears, “rozzer” for “Robert” sounds like an awfully long stretch. But, it’s always good to remember that British people came up with “Jez” as a nickname for “Jeremy,” so there’s some precedent for inserting random z’s into people’s names.

Even with the connection to Peel, the origin of “rozzer” isn’t 100 percent certain. Some people have pointed out that it might be tied to “roosher,” which is another popular slang term from the 19th Century, but that doesn’t really help because the roots of “roosher” are even more obscure.

https://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2013/jan/16/straight-rozzers/
==========

ROZZERS means "Police". ROZZERS is a long-standing slang term for the police, which derives from the late 1800s. The term is highly likely to have been coined in the time of Sir Robert Peel, who established the first police force in the area of Rossendale, Lancashire (hence ROZZERS).

https://www.cyberdefinitions.com/definitions/ROZZERS.html
===============

rozzer n.1
also rawser, razzer, rosser, roz
[? Rom. roozlo, strong or roast, a villain; B&L suggest rousse, roussin, a policeman (from Medieval. Fr. roussin, a warhorse or hunter)]

https://greensdictofslang.com/entry/5axtqti
================

An early suggestion held it was a variation on Robert, again from Sir Robert Peel. Others have unsatisfactorily found a connection to French criminal slang for a policeman, roussin or rousse, literally a redhead (from roux), considered to be a despised or marginalised individual. A common supposition is that it comes from Hebrew khazeer or Yiddish chazer, a pig, but this is almost certainly a guess derived from the 1960s slang term. Yet another candidate is the Romany ruzalō, strong. Some point to roosher, contemporary with rozzer, which is listed in Farmer and Henley’s Slang and its Analogues of 1903, but that merely transfers the problem to another word of which we know nothing.

http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-roz1.htm
 
Does anyone know the origin of the (I think) Cockney slang term "rozzer" for police officer? - or "rhino" for money? As in the immortal words of some unknown poet, "It's crackers to bend a rozzer with duff rhino."

Meaning "It's unwise to attempt to bribe a police officer with counterfeit money."

To bend, in this sense, means to bribe or to pay off; as in "a bent brief", meaning a career criminal's tame lawyer.

Then there's the other use of the word "bent", as in "bent out of shape", meaning annoyed or indignant, usually over some minor matter. For example, " 'E'd get bent out of shape if 'is shoelace wuz untied."

In Cheshire, and probably elsewhere, "keggled" means physically bent out of shape, as in "Keggled like a sheet o' corrugated iron that a lorry's driven ower." And then there's "gibbled", which I've only ever heard in use in Western Canada but is most likely more widespread, meaning fairly seriously damaged, or damaged beyond repair, or when applied to a person, "A few boards shy of a load."

Vernacular English is wonderful.

I think im right in saying anything described as 'bent' refers to the fact they are not straight, as in cosher, trust worthy, honest, people use the phrase 'i'll be straight with you' when trying to come across as truthful, so bent is a natural opposite. 'Bent as a nine bob note' is also an old British phrase, a bob being predecimal denomination of money, of which there was never a nine bob note, so therefore being fake, dishonest or bent :)
 
I think im right in saying anything described as 'bent' refers to the fact they are not straight, as in cosher, trust worthy, honest, people use the phrase 'i'll be straight with you' when trying to come across as truthful, so bent is a natural opposite. 'Bent as a nine bob note' is also an old British phrase, a bob being predecimal denomination of money, of which there was never a nine bob note, so therefore being fake, dishonest or bent :)
Or 'bent as a dog's hind leg'.
 
OK we've got "rozzer" and "bent"; what about "rhino"?
To be honest ive never heard this term for money until you mentioned it however,
this is something i found:

"Rhino – No one knows for sure where this 400-year-old term for money comes from. Some people link it to the value of rhino horn or the idea of paying through the nose (rhinoceros is from the Greek for “nose-horn”). Perhaps the arrival of the first rhino in Britain suggested the sense of something valuable."

https://www.independent.co.uk/money...-terms-money-slang-nomenclature-a8870441.html
 
OK we've got "rozzer" and "bent"; what about "rhino"?

No one seems to have demonstrated a credible etymology for the British slang "rhino" used to mean "money" or "cash."

https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/69013/why-is-money-called-rhino
https://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-rhi1.htm

The slang usage dates back at least 4 centuries, to a time when a rhinoceros was a fabled foreign creature which hadn't yet been exhibited in England at all. To complicate the issue, the abbreviated term "rhino" (for rhinoceros) isn't known to have been in use until at least one or two centuries after "rhino" is attested to have been used to connote money.
 
I've brought this up on here before and there doesn't seem to be a conclusive theory of its origin, "I'm standing here like pithy (piffy?) on a rock bun."

I've spent some time reading about this over the last day or two.

Apparently it is a north west of England/Lancashire expression which is no longer in common use. I have certainly never heard it in everyday conversation.

It's usually "Piffy", sometimes spelled "Piffey".

The meaning is similar to "Like a spare prick at a wedding." You would use it to describe someone who is present but not involved, who is irritated that they are wasting their time in attendance at an event where they are not really needed.

Some writers have compared it to "Like Patience on a monument," but I think that this expression implies that the person "present but irrelevant" is behaving in a restrained or patient manner rather than being bored or irritated with their predicament.

A rock bun is a sort of bun/cake/scone characterised by an unevenly-finished and crusty exterior that makes it look just a little but like a rock.

The origin of "Piffy" has not been established. There may be a link to "piffle" which is a dismissive expression or exclamation meaning something like "nonsense".

Piffle may have been the name of a stock character referenced by a music hall performer, much as Jim Davidson used to refer to "My mate, Chalky."

It seems unlikely that "piffy" is meant to refer to something like a cherry on top of the rock cake. It sounds like it is meant to take the place of a personal name.

Why would a person be sitting on a rock bun? Partly because it is a deliberately absurd idiom, and partly because sitting on a rock is an image similar to "Patience on a monument" or Rodin's Thinker, or even the Mermaid of Copenhagen: someone sitting there inactive. It is a small step from "rock" to "rock bun" or "rock cake".

I think any attempt to find an original source or etymology for "Piffy" is doomed to failure because it is likely to have started out as nonsense.

English idiom is often creative. "Well, I'll go to the foot of our stairs," as an ironic expression of surprise. "I'm going to turn my bike round," as a euphemism for going to the toilet. "Going to see a man about a dog," (going to place a bet on the greyhounds/whippets) as a catch all for an unspecified errand.
 
I've spent some time reading about this over the last day or two.

Apparently it is a north west of England/Lancashire expression which is no longer in common use. I have certainly never heard it in everyday conversation.

It's usually "Piffy", sometimes spelled "Piffey".

The meaning is similar to "Like a spare prick at a wedding." You would use it to describe someone who is present but not involved, who is irritated that they are wasting their time in attendance at an event where they are not really needed.

Some writers have compared it to "Like Patience on a monument," but I think that this expression implies that the person "present but irrelevant" is behaving in a restrained or patient manner rather than being bored or irritated with their predicament.

A rock bun is a sort of bun/cake/scone characterised by an unevenly-finished and crusty exterior that makes it look just a little but like a rock.

The origin of "Piffy" has not been established. There may be a link to "piffle" which is a dismissive expression or exclamation meaning something like "nonsense".

Piffle may have been the name of a stock character referenced by a music hall performer, much as Jim Davidson used to refer to "My mate, Chalky."

It seems unlikely that "piffy" is meant to refer to something like a cherry on top of the rock cake. It sounds like it is meant to take the place of a personal name.

Why would a person be sitting on a rock bun? Partly because it is a deliberately absurd idiom, and partly because sitting on a rock is an image similar to "Patience on a monument" or Rodin's Thinker, or even the Mermaid of Copenhagen: someone sitting there inactive. It is a small step from "rock" to "rock bun" or "rock cake".

I think any attempt to find an original source or etymology for "Piffy" is doomed to failure because it is likely to have started out as nonsense.

English idiom is often creative. "Well, I'll go to the foot of our stairs," as an ironic expression of surprise. "I'm going to turn my bike round," as a euphemism for going to the toilet. "Going to see a man about a dog," (going to place a bet on the greyhounds/whippets) as a catch all for an unspecified errand.
My mom makes the best rock cakes :dinner:
For those that still cant picture what a rock cake/bun is here's a pic (not moms btw)

rock_cakes_03094_16x9.jpg
 
Another word used for a busty woman is "stacked. Perhaps it was stack rather than stag.
 
Souleater, did you have to put that pic on? Those buns look scrummy! I've just had lunch but I couldn't arf scoff down a couple of those. But I do think we need a pic of your mum's buns. Rock buns, I mean. Obvs.
 
Souleater, did you have to put that pic on? Those buns look scrummy! I've just had lunch but I couldn't arf scoff down a couple of those. But I do think we need a pic of your mum's buns. Rock buns, I mean. Obvs.
Next time she makes some ill post a pic on the 'what are you eating/drinking' thread :D
 
Next time she makes some ill post a pic on the 'what are you eating/drinking' thread :D
She baked 6 dozen fairy cakes and decorated them for easter, giving them out to every house in her street again this year. As i have said before she's a bakoholic so no doubt she'll be baking rock cakes again in the near future.
 
It seems unlikely that "piffy" is meant to refer to something like a cherry on top of the rock cake. It sounds like it is meant to take the place of a personal name.

Unless.... and don't shoot me here - it's related to pith, in the guise of candied peel? I've never seen a rock bun recipe with candied peel in it, but they used to lay a slice of citron across the top of grander cakes - for example, Madeira cake - as a garnish. Since rock buns are so craggy, the inclusion of such an extra would seem superfluous.
 
I found this while nosing around....

My Dad, who was from the Manchester area, told us that in this phrase "piffy" just means icing sugar, as Wandle and others have said. It is saying that the person is just like a light dusting of icing sugar on a rock bun (i.e. 'Decorative' in a sarcastic manner, but not of much, if any, practical use. In other words the person is just sitting/standing there not doing anything.)

https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/to-sit-around-like-piffey-on-a-rock-bun-idiom.197157/page-2
 
Piffy: Well, there’s a rabbit hole down which l’ve just wasted ten minutes...

The site phrases.org kicks it about but gets nowhere.

There’s a vague hint on a “grow your own fruit and veg” site that it’s referred to in an old newspaper ( Guardian?) as being related to a Saint “Epipheus”?

A search on that name reveals only Epiphaneuses (Epiphani?); and of the lengthy list on Google, only two are recorded as actual saints, neither of them - as far as l can determine - having the remotest connection to bakery, rock cakes, solitude, rejection etc.

You’re welcome, and who do l speak to about having those ten minutes (now fifteen...) credited to me?

maximus otter
 
If I do a loud burp I usually announce (even if I'm on my own, which I usually am) "I beg my pudding".

I think it stems from watching Basil Brush when I was a kid.
 
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Where I was born, the expression was more blunt...It was 'You're a useless bloody object - neither use, nor bloody ornament.
I heard the same expression, growing up. It only strikes me now that it's a blunt paraphrase of William Morris's famous dictum: "Have nothing in your house that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful." Convergent evolution, or is there a more direct link?
 
Piffy - and all variants - has been going the rounds of fora such as this for decades!

At least as far back as the "Old Codgers" of ancient Daily Mirror Days, which is, I think, where I first heard of it.

The most Classical derivation was "Patience on a Monument," which works, if you are willing to substitute both specific terms for the general one of Patience - or lack of it. :thought:
 
I heard the same expression, growing up. It only strikes me now that it's a blunt paraphrase of William Morris's famous dictum: "Have nothing in your house that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful." Convergent evolution, or is there a more direct link?
I was born and raised in The Potteries until I was 4, and Night School, Mechanics Institute, and other self education centres were much appreciated by the average worker down there.

Their choice of reading - for they were great readers - seemed to me to be rather cerebral for the majority who left the hallowed halls of education at the age of eleven.

I'm talking about children who were born in the late 1880's and 1890's, who went on to work in the coal, or the pottery industries, but these fellows could and would critique the newest novel, poetry, or schools of philosophy while they took the air over 'The Jollies' - often walking arm in arm, or pushing the youngest 'our kid' in the pram during the long shadows.

They also worked (white country) in a field where inventiveness, gentility, an admiration for a thing of beauty was the norm, but worm drives, transfer boxes and the slump factors of sesquioxide clays went hand in hand...all the while, their women folk would work alongside of them, and where their Sister or Aunt would design or plan the latest in ceramic or bone china or come up with an idea to make a tedious procedure shorter...It made me wonder later on as a teenager, if this was why the gap between the genders was so minimal

They were all mechanicaly minded, and could turn their hand at, it seems, many things and so, to go and visit Uncle Enoch or Uncle Jeb would be an hour or so of discovery and delight for us kids who would tag along while Jebediah Washington would explain to Dad, why he cut timber like this and where it all fitted together in a self bracing arrangement with no screws or nails, just oak dowel, so that even Mrs Gantry could sit on it without fear of embarrasment.

I actually think Krepostnoi, that Mr Morris would've been well at home with these Midlanders.
 
Here's a lovely saying I overheard last week in Nottingham UK. Someone was expressing their intention not to accept an unwelcome invitation to a social event.

"I'm stopping in that night, with tight shoes on."

(Stopping in, rather than staying in, seems to be Nottingham thing.)
 
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