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Dying Alone & Loners' Unnoticed Deaths

Naughty_Felid said:
this and I get it. But...
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Perhaps it might be useful to have a national helpline which could be used by people who want to voluntarily disappear. (possibly there is one already) They could identify themselves and confirm they are Ok. This could be accessed by the Police only, and thereby avoid wasting a lot of Police time and avoid some of the anxiety caused to family and friends.
 
PeteS said:
Perhaps it might be useful to have a national helpline which could be used by people who want to voluntarily disappear. (possibly there is one already) They could identify themselves and confirm they are Ok. This could be accessed by the Police only, and thereby avoid wasting a lot of Police time and avoid some of the anxiety caused to family and friends.
Click to expand...

Not sure the Police are always going to be the best and most trusted people to do this: their focus is ensuring vulnerable people are not put at further risk.
I know the Salvation Army have traced estranged families for many years: https://www.salvationarmy.org.uk/family-tracing and there's this charity https://www.missingpeople.org.uk/ dedicated to missing people. I'm sure these organisations talk to each other.

oxo
 

France appalled by ‘death by indifference’ of photographer René Robert on a Paris street​


The death of 84-year-old René Robert, a Swiss photographer who captured the biggest flamenco stars of today, could be considered a statistic, just another of the more than 500 people who die every year on the streets of France. What makes Robert stand out from the rest of these homeless and solitary victims is that firstly, he wasn’t homeless, and secondly, he was a renowned professional photographer. Indeed, it was because of this that his friends shared the circumstances of his death.

Rene-Robert-696x522.jpg


On January 19, sometime after 9pm, Robert was taking his nightly walk through the Paris neighborhood of Place de la République, a bustling hub of the French capital that is nearly always filled with people. But at 89 Rue de Turbigo, he fell to the ground. It’s not known whether this was because he slipped or if he had a dizzy spell.

And that’s where he remained: lying on the sidewalk between a bottle shop and an optometrist, unable to move and in clear view of the Parisians rushing home after work, the passersby coming in and out of the restaurants and cafés and the tourists.

Hours passed. The streets emptied. Robert was still there. It’s easy to imagine that to passersby he was just one of the many people in Paris, and in so many cities in rich countries, who are living on the street. In these cases, one often does not know if they are sleeping or in trouble.

At 6am on January 20, someone saw him and called the Paris Fire Brigade, which is one of the city’s providers of emergency medical services. But it was too late. Nine hours had passed since his fall. An ambulance arrived. When René Robert, the photographer of flamenco icons such as Camarón de la Isla and Paco de Lucía, was admitted to Cochin Hospital, the doctors couldn’t revive him. The cause of death was “extreme hypothermia,” according to the Fire Brigade. In other words, he died from the cold.

https://english.elpais.com/usa/2022...rt-freezes-to-death-on-busy-paris-street.html

maximus otter
 
maximus otter said:
On January 19, sometime after 9pm, Robert was taking his nightly walk through the Paris neighborhood of Place de la République, a bustling hub of the French capital that is nearly always filled with people. But at 89 Rue de Turbigo, he fell to the ground. It’s not known whether this was because he slipped or if he had a dizzy spell.
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Interestingly, there is still a bottle shop and an optometrist at that very location today.
 
maximus otter said:
Unsurprising, as M. Robert only died ten days ago.

;)

maximus otter
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D'oh! I didn't read the article - I just looked at the photo and thought 'late 19th/early 20th century'.
[facepalm]
 
A hoarder may have been dead for years, he even collected a grenade.

Workers who discovered a hand grenade at a house in south Co Dublin on Wednesday morning discovered decomposed human remains after the property was made safe and they were allowed to return there.

The remains discovered are believed to be those of an elderly man who lived at the house in Sallynoggin but who had not be heard from for a prolonged period. Gardaí are trying to establish if he died during a period of lockdown last year and has remains lay undiscovered for a year or more, as they suspect.

The man who lived in the house has been described as a hoarder who did not mix with others in the community.

Gardaí were called to the property on Sallynoggin Road on Wednesday morning when staff from Dublin City Council carrying out clearing works at the house discovered a hand grenade.

The area was sealed off and when Army bomb disposal experts were called in they took the device, which dated from the War of Independence and was viable, to nearby park and destroyed it.

Once the house and surrounding scene was declared safe, the council workers went back into the property and resumed their work. However, not long after they had resumed clearing the property, which was in a state of disrepair, they found decomposed human remains .

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/cri...enade-may-have-died-during-lockdown-1.4793168
 
ramonmercado said:
A hoarder may have been dead for years, he even collected a grenade.

Workers who discovered a hand grenade at a house in south Co Dublin on Wednesday morning discovered decomposed human remains after the property was made safe and they were allowed to return there.

The remains discovered are believed to be those of an elderly man who lived at the house in Sallynoggin but who had not be heard from for a prolonged period. Gardaí are trying to establish if he died during a period of lockdown last year and has remains lay undiscovered for a year or more, as they suspect.

The man who lived in the house has been described as a hoarder who did not mix with others in the community.

Gardaí were called to the property on Sallynoggin Road on Wednesday morning when staff from Dublin City Council carrying out clearing works at the house discovered a hand grenade.

The area was sealed off and when Army bomb disposal experts were called in they took the device, which dated from the War of Independence and was viable, to nearby park and destroyed it.

Once the house and surrounding scene was declared safe, the council workers went back into the property and resumed their work. However, not long after they had resumed clearing the property, which was in a state of disrepair, they found decomposed human remains .

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/cri...enade-may-have-died-during-lockdown-1.4793168
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I have hardly any family, in this country anyway, don't socialise- pubs/ restaurants etc and the friends I would have time for now live abroad, but this is terrible. Not that he wanted to be alone- that's fine if that's what you want, but that no one - neighbours/postperson etc thought to investigate a bit sooner. He must have had to go out relatively often to buy food at least.
 
Floyd1 said:
I have hardly any family, in this country anyway, don't socialise- pubs/ restaurants etc and the friends I would have time for now live abroad, but this is terrible. Not that he wanted to be alone- that's fine if that's what you want, but that no one - neighbours/postperson etc thought to investigate a bit sooner. He must have had to go out relatively often to buy food at least.
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Not if he got online delivery...

I've told on here before about my friend John (who's edging into his eighties), ringing me one day because I hadn't replied to an email he sent me for several days and he thought I may have 'had a fall'. Leaving aside that I'm fitter now than I was in my thirties, I said that if I didn't turn up at work for my shift, someone would come by to see where I was, and my kids tend to panic if I'm not online at least once a day, I'd be missed very quickly. Then I realised that John was putting his own anxieties about himself onto me. He lives alone, has no family and it could be a while before anyone thought that they'd not seen him about.

A lot of people, even those who shop, go out, have friends etc, could be dead for quite a while before anyone really missed them.
 
catseye said:
Not if he got online delivery...

I've told on here before about my friend John (who's edging into his eighties), ringing me one day because I hadn't replied to an email he sent me for several days and he thought I may have 'had a fall'. Leaving aside that I'm fitter now than I was in my thirties, I said that if I didn't turn up at work for my shift, someone would come by to see where I was, and my kids tend to panic if I'm not online at least once a day, I'd be missed very quickly. Then I realised that John was putting his own anxieties about himself onto me. He lives alone, has no family and it could be a while before anyone thought that they'd not seen him about.

A lot of people, even those who shop, go out, have friends etc, could be dead for quite a while before anyone really missed them.
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But 'for years' seems a tad strange even for such a recluse.
 
catseye said:
Not if he got online delivery...

I've told on here before about my friend John (who's edging into his eighties), ringing me one day because I hadn't replied to an email he sent me for several days and he thought I may have 'had a fall'. Leaving aside that I'm fitter now than I was in my thirties, I said that if I didn't turn up at work for my shift, someone would come by to see where I was, and my kids tend to panic if I'm not online at least once a day, I'd be missed very quickly. Then I realised that John was putting his own anxieties about himself onto me. He lives alone, has no family and it could be a while before anyone thought that they'd not seen him about.

A lot of people, even those who shop, go out, have friends etc, could be dead for quite a while before anyone really missed them.
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"A lot of people, even those who shop, go out, have friends etc, could be dead for quite a while before anyone really missed them."
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Plus, the addition of one or more lockdowns adds to this.
 
Floyd1 said:
But 'for years' seems a tad strange even for such a recluse.
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It's only been two years since the first lockdown, when they are saying he may have died. I know some people who are still so scared of Covid (or so frail in health that catching it could kill them) who haven't been outside since March 2020.
 
Floyd1 said:
I have hardly any family, in this country anyway, don't socialise- pubs/ restaurants etc and the friends I would have time for now live abroad, but this is terrible. Not that he wanted to be alone- that's fine if that's what you want, but that no one - neighbours/postperson etc thought to investigate a bit sooner. He must have had to go out relatively often to buy food at least.
Click to expand...
I remember my Grandmother was placed into a nice garden apartment complex when she got older (your government apparently has those type of services) and she was very happy there, living alone - but a nurse or medical service would pop in on all the elderly every single day to check on them all, according to her.
Would be wonderful if we had that here.
 
Interesting thing about my Grandmother's apartment was that there was a cemetery across the road. From her window, she could see her HUSBAND's grave, he died when he was young.
Gave me the creeps!!
 
PeteS said:
Perhaps it might be useful to have a national helpline which could be used by people who want to voluntarily disappear. (possibly there is one already) They could identify themselves and confirm they are Ok.
Click to expand...

- Because that couldn’t be abused by serial killers…

;)

maximus otter
 
Ronnie Jersey said:
Interesting thing about my Grandmother's apartment was that there was a cemetery across the road. From her window, she could see her HUSBAND's grave, he died when he was young.
Gave me the creeps!!
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They built an old folks' home in Crewe, Cheshire directly across the road from the graveyard.
 
Floyd1 said:
They built an old folks' home in Crewe, Cheshire directly across the road from the graveyard.
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I believe she was in Beaconsfield or that area. Think it was a small graveyard, and it was a group of garden apartments, brick buildings. And they had a boy cat who wandered from building to building, all the tenants used to feed him!
 
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Floyd1 said:
They built an old folks' home in Crewe, Cheshire directly across the road from the graveyard.
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Nah, it was round the corner from the cemetery and was named 'Ashlands' after the owners' son Ashley.

Someone decided that the name and vague proximity to the municipal crematorium constituted an OUTRAGE and there were at least three heated letters about it in the local rag.
 
PeteS said:
Perhaps it might be useful to have a national helpline which could be used by people who want to voluntarily disappear. (possibly there is one already) They could identify themselves and confirm they are Ok. This could be accessed by the Police only, and thereby avoid wasting a lot of Police time and avoid some of the anxiety caused to family and friends.
Click to expand...
There was/is an advertising campaign by several Missing Persons charities to get runaways to do just that - phone a friend to say they were still alive but without any pressure to reveal their location or return home. Sometimes the runaway doesn't realises just how much heartbreak and concern their disappearance has caused.
 
Ronnie Jersey said:
I remember my Grandmother was placed into a nice garden apartment complex when she got older (your government apparently has those type of services) and she was very happy there, living alone - but a nurse or medical service would pop in on all the elderly every single day to check on them all, according to her.
Would be wonderful if we had that here.
Click to expand...
I was a Working Carer and had some home help, but was grateful for the Postman and the Milkman who would drop stuff on the kitchen table and call out to my Mum in her chair in the sitting room. No reply and they would stick their head around the door to check if she was on the floor.
 
Bad Bungle said:
I was a Working Carer and had some home help, but was grateful for the Postman and the Milkman who would drop stuff on the kitchen table and call out to my Mum in her chair in the sitting room. No reply and they would stick their head around the door to check if she was on the floor.
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Wow - I have never heard of anything like that here, how lovely people are there!!
 
catseye said:
It's only been two years since the first lockdown, when they are saying he may have died. I know some people who are still so scared of Covid (or so frail in health that catching it could kill them) who haven't been outside since March 2020.
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I live in a tower block and the old lady who lives opposite hasn't been out her flat since the lock down began. She used to be very active and went to various OAP clubs for lunch each week as well as using the council run community bus service that did weekly trips to different places. Her mind was all there as well.

I phone her up every few days just to check up on her and it's obvious her whole world has ground to a halt. Her voice sounds decrepit, slow and lifeless and has done for a long time. She has nothing to talk about except covid. Her daily routines all rotate around her making herself 'covid safe' as she calls it. A charity delivers her food and leaves it outside her door. They knock and then 5 minutes later her door opens and she take the food inside, washes all the tins in bleach, disinfects all the packaging and then leaves it all on her balcony for three days to make it 'covid safe'.

Social Services have being trying but she won't open her door to anyone.

The council estimate there's 16 people, all old, in the two tower blocks where I live (160 flats) that have not been out their flats since the lockdown began.
 
kesavaross said:
I live in a tower block and the old lady who lives opposite hasn't been out her flat since the lock down began. She used to be very active and went to various OAP clubs for lunch each week as well as using the council run community bus service that did weekly trips to different places. Her mind was all there as well.

I phone her up every few days just to check up on her and it's obvious her whole world has ground to a halt. Her voice sounds decrepit, slow and lifeless and has done for a long time. She has nothing to talk about except covid. Her daily routines all rotate around her making herself 'covid safe' as she calls it. A charity delivers her food and leaves it outside her door. They knock and then 5 minutes later her door opens and she take the food inside, washes all the tins in bleach, disinfects all the packaging and then leaves it all on her balcony for three days to make it 'covid safe'.

Social Services have being trying but she won't open her door to anyone.

The council estimate there's 16 people, all old, in the two tower blocks where I live (160 flats) that have not been out their flats since the lockdown began.
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Oh those poor people, this virus has been a nightmare, and more for them than a lot of us. The elderly need to get out in the fresh air taking walks and getting sunshine and exercise, solitude is the worst thing for them. Hope this virus is fading away, seems to be losing its' strength, perhaps this spring they can all get out and get some sun!
 
kesavaross said:
I live in a tower block and the old lady who lives opposite hasn't been out her flat since the lock down began. She used to be very active and went to various OAP clubs for lunch each week as well as using the council run community bus service that did weekly trips to different places. Her mind was all there as well.

I phone her up every few days just to check up on her and it's obvious her whole world has ground to a halt. Her voice sounds decrepit, slow and lifeless and has done for a long time. She has nothing to talk about except covid. Her daily routines all rotate around her making herself 'covid safe' as she calls it. A charity delivers her food and leaves it outside her door. They knock and then 5 minutes later her door opens and she take the food inside, washes all the tins in bleach, disinfects all the packaging and then leaves it all on her balcony for three days to make it 'covid safe'.

Social Services have being trying but she won't open her door to anyone.

The council estimate there's 16 people, all old, in the two tower blocks where I live (160 flats) that have not been out their flats since the lockdown began.
Click to expand...
They were previously coping and have now learned helplessness.
When governments adopt a ‘nudge’ approach to adapting society’s expectations, ethics and mode of behaviour, this is the sort of thing that will result.
 
Analogue Boy said:
They were previously coping and have now learned helplessness.
When governments adopt a ‘nudge’ approach to adapting society’s expectations, ethics and mode of behaviour, this is the sort of thing that will result.
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So true. So sad. Governments through the ages and around the world have often taken this approach.
 
At the peak of the covid, thousands died alone in nursing homes and in hospitals on a ventilator because these institutions would not let family in to see their dying family member.

Women would give birth to their babies alone in the hospitals because again family were not allowed.
 
maximus otter said:

France appalled by ‘death by indifference’ of photographer René Robert on a Paris street​


The death of 84-year-old René Robert, a Swiss photographer who captured the biggest flamenco stars of today, could be considered a statistic, just another of the more than 500 people who die every year on the streets of France. What makes Robert stand out from the rest of these homeless and solitary victims is that firstly, he wasn’t homeless, and secondly, he was a renowned professional photographer. Indeed, it was because of this that his friends shared the circumstances of his death.

Rene-Robert-696x522.jpg


On January 19, sometime after 9pm, Robert was taking his nightly walk through the Paris neighborhood of Place de la République, a bustling hub of the French capital that is nearly always filled with people. But at 89 Rue de Turbigo, he fell to the ground. It’s not known whether this was because he slipped or if he had a dizzy spell.

And that’s where he remained: lying on the sidewalk between a bottle shop and an optometrist, unable to move and in clear view of the Parisians rushing home after work, the passersby coming in and out of the restaurants and cafés and the tourists.

Hours passed. The streets emptied. Robert was still there. It’s easy to imagine that to passersby he was just one of the many people in Paris, and in so many cities in rich countries, who are living on the street. In these cases, one often does not know if they are sleeping or in trouble.

At 6am on January 20, someone saw him and called the Paris Fire Brigade, which is one of the city’s providers of emergency medical services. But it was too late. Nine hours had passed since his fall. An ambulance arrived. When René Robert, the photographer of flamenco icons such as Camarón de la Isla and Paco de Lucía, was admitted to Cochin Hospital, the doctors couldn’t revive him. The cause of death was “extreme hypothermia,” according to the Fire Brigade. In other words, he died from the cold.

https://english.elpais.com/usa/2022...rt-freezes-to-death-on-busy-paris-street.html

maximus otter
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I didn't realise Parisians were like that. Unlikely to have happened in London. What makes them behave like that I wonder.
 
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