Herr Cloaca
Abominable Snowman
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2020
- Messages
- 673
Perhaps you're a humanist.I don't believe in gods so I'm an atheist by definition but I don't feel I belong in a group or anything.
Perhaps you're a humanist.I don't believe in gods so I'm an atheist by definition but I don't feel I belong in a group or anything.
That's one of the many good things about atheism: there's no pressure to conform or belong.I don't believe in gods so I'm an atheist by definition but I don't feel I belong in a group or anything.
Just means that they are in some sort of afterlife that doesn't require D.I.Y.Had the opportunity to examine my own religious/spiritual/superstitious beliefs last year when a relation of a close friend died, an intestate recluse, and I was asked to help clear the house for sale afterwards.
There was some frantic rifling of the place for personal papers, valuables, heirlooms etc in which I assisted.
At some point it turned into 'Take whatever you want as it's all going to the tip!' so I stocked up on free expensive kitchen implements and power tools.
Have slept well since, with no sign of an aggrieved ghost at the foot of the bed asking for his Black and Decker back.
As we don't know what comes next we make it up, consciously or otherwise.Just means that they are in some sort of afterlife that doesn't require D.I.Y.
Yes, the batteries are never flat, the attachments always fit and you never catch your bits in the tool's bits.As we don't know what comes next we make it up, consciously or otherwise.
My late father was known for spending most of the day in his shed-complex, often known by family as the Shanty Town.
After his death we've all dreamed of visiting him in his new Celestial Shed or seeing him up a ladder installing a roof on a sparkling new one.
Yup, you're right. There are shiny new tools in Heaven. Keith has no need of his old ones.
I don't believe in gods so I'm an atheist by definition but I don't feel I belong in a group or anything.
@Rappinghood Try thinking of "atheist" as an adjective: I am atheist, my opinions are atheist.Perhaps you're a humanist.
I just say 'Fuck off with your shite.'However, if you call yourself a vegetarian (vegetarian as a noun) then people immediately start telling you what you "can" and "can't" eat, and they delight in pointing out what they perceive as inconsistencies. You are expected to behave in a certain way, and are challenged if you don't.
No there's us agnostic's whom take neither position (I hold to no single deity). I'm an observer on the fence and really don't care what the masses or individuals believe so long as they are not harming anyone. Plenty of religious and atheistic murders, pograms, and exterminations on both sides. Extremism is the real treat. Just look the atheistic communist: killed 10's of millions, the Arap jahads killed millions and so on crusaders, inquisition, Mid-East wars, Nazis (who temporarily allowed most religions in order not to demoralize the army, they considered it completely unnecessary in the top party level and eventually planned to do away with it ).Is there an elemental dilemma with athiesm?
Either a God exists, or it doesn't.
You are a believer, or an atheist.
Die and as a believer and if there's no God, will never know you were wrong.
Die and as a believer and if there is a God, then happy days.
It's a win-win situation.
Die and as an atheist and if there's no God, you will never have the satisfaction of knowing you were right.
Die and as an atheist and if there is a God, then 'up sh*t creek without a paddle'.
It's a lose-lose situation.
Quite.I do not believe in god(s). That does not mean that I automatically buy into one complete set of Humanist philosophical beliefs or ethics.
Some database theorists attempt to further subdivide 'unknown' in a disturbingly similar wayThat is interesting: apatheism rather than atheism.
Agnostic: technically, someone who believes that it is impossible to prove or disprove the existence of god(s).
Agnostic: loosely, someone who has not formed an strong view on the existence or otherwise of god(s) but is willing to be convinced by evidence.
Atheist: someone who rejects the existence of god(s)
Apotheist: a word I have learned today: someone who honestly doesn't give a monkeys about whether or not gods exist.
Apotheism is a useful word. Thank you.
My dream is of a world full of apothexuals: people who just aren't interested in whether or not someone else is straight, gay, etc. Of course, the newspapers would be thinner.
We have a few apothecaries in our town, but that has a very different etymology!
It is a lack of belief, is that a belief system? Many (most) religious people insist that the existence of a deity is a "fact", but it is only a belief.Is Atheism A Belief System... or Fact?
It just struck me - many people who are atheists seem to regard it as a fact, irrefutable. But isn't it a belief system, exactly the same as monotheism, polytheism, or agnosticism? Or is it scientific "fact"? I'm not sure how it's calssified, but it might be scientific fact to a believer in atheism, but just a belief to anybody else....
I'd say atheism, in itself, is a perfectly reasonable assertion, not a belief system. You don't have to 'believe' in the absence of something for which there is no observable or repeatable evidence. Otherwise you'd have to argue that insisting the moon is not populated by giant octopi is a belief system.It is a lack of belief, is that a belief system? Many (most) religious people insist that the existence of a deity is a "fact", but is is only a belief.
Quite.
We get on to the difference between faith in a God (or gods) and religion. Humanism is a religion with a fairly fixed set of beliefs / principles /
guidelines - call them what you will.
Buddhism is similar in a way - at least in my limited understanding thereof.
Anyway, there are three possible states, theism, agnosticism, and atheism. Strangely this has a direct link to relational database theory, where results of querys can be true, false or unknown.
That is interesting: apatheism rather than atheism.
Agnostic: technically, someone who believes that it is impossible to prove or disprove the existence of god(s).
Agnostic: loosely, someone who has not formed an strong view on the existence or otherwise of god(s) but is willing to be convinced by evidence.
Atheist: someone who rejects the existence of god(s)
Apotheist: a word I have learned today: someone who honestly doesn't give a monkeys about whether or not gods exist.
Apotheism is a useful word. Thank you.
My dream is of a world full of apothexuals: people who just aren't interested in whether or not someone else is straight, gay, etc. Of course, the newspapers would be thinner.
We have a few apothecaries in our town, but that has a very different etymology!
It was a typo on my part, but I stand corrected and have learned something additional. ThanksJust a note ... I'm not sure why you shifted spellings in midstream, but those two words aren't synonyms.
Apatheism is the formal term for an attitude of disinterest or dismissal toward the question of god(s).
Apotheism isn't a formally recognized theological position, but it appears (in various forms) here and there on the 'Net. In one place it seems to be used to label or characterize an orientation toward somehow seeking out god(s) so as to advance or re-establish deities' relevance to human affairs - an entirely distinct theme.
I've conceived a '-theism' of my own, based on various science fiction concepts and exobiology; if you google the word, the first example that comes up was written by me.
Subtheism. The possibility that a sufficiently advanced civilisation could have godlike characteristics and powers.
Interesting questions. I suppose each individual has their own take. My own is that all the various, incompatible religions and beliefs in deity past and future contain utterly ridiculous claims and are outside the experiences of both the common person and the scientist. Clearly, the religious interpret strange phenomena in terms of their faiths, but taken on their own those phenomena rarely seem to suggest deity.This is a Forteana Forum, the atheism thread is 78 pages long so I assume there are atheists here with Fortean interests. IMO religion arose in response to age-old questions such as 'why am I here' and 'what happens to me when I'm no longer here ?' (I heard the argument several times in my youth: 'If God didn't exist, we'd have to invent him). So I'm interested in atheists who believe in ghosts and the supernatural - whatever the definition of 'believe' and 'ghosts' is taken to be. Not interested enough to read all 78 pages mind, as it's a sunny Saturday in May outside.
Is religion without a Godhead simply a series of Minor strangeness and IHTM ie do the questions get an answer ?
... IMO religion arose in response to age-old questions such as 'why am I here' and 'what happens to me when I'm no longer here ?' (I heard the argument several times in my youth: 'If God didn't exist, we'd have to invent him). ...
Aye, which is why early families of pantheistic gods mirrored ruling families. The former justified the latter. In conclusion, fairies are real but God's are oppressive nonsense.I tend to think animism and other early belief structures arose as a folkloric means for explain phenomena, create lore to pass on to newer generations, and attempt magical influence on the environment. The concept of other beings that influenced or controlled things dates all the way back to this phase. I'm not confident the sort of individual existential questions we associate with religion today (and you quoted) were significant motivators in this folkloric era.
I'm pretty sure what we know now as "organized religion" arose later as a power structure to codify and enforce social order as settled populations grew larger and the hierarchical levels of authority grew more prominent. The concept of only one or a few "Master God(s)" to whom one owed allegiance emerged during this later phase. "Atheism" arose as a pejorative concept formulated by stakeholders in organized religion that could be used to smear those who weren't "with the program".
In other words, I believe some measure of belief in supernatural or paranormal forces / entities / etc. pre-dated organized religion.
I like to solve the mysteryThis is a Forteana Forum, the atheism thread is 78 pages long so I assume there are atheists here with Fortean interests. IMO religion arose in response to age-old questions such as 'why am I here' and 'what happens to me when I'm no longer here ?' (I heard the argument several times in my youth: 'If God didn't exist, we'd have to invent him). So I'm interested in atheists who believe in ghosts and the supernatural - whatever the definition of 'believe' and 'ghosts' is taken to be. Not interested enough to read all 78 pages mind, as it's a sunny Saturday in May outside.
Is religion without a Godhead simply a series of Minor strangeness and IHTM ie do the questions get an answer ?
Yes, this.I tend to think animism and other early belief structures arose as a folkloric means for explain phenomena, create lore to pass on to newer generations, and attempt magical influence on the environment. The concept of other beings that influenced or controlled things dates all the way back to this phase. I'm not confident the sort of individual existential questions we associate with religion today (and you quoted) were significant motivators in this folkloric era.
I'm pretty sure what we know now as "organized religion" arose later as a power structure to codify and enforce social order as settled populations grew larger and the hierarchical levels of authority grew more prominent. The concept of only one or a few "Master God(s)" to whom one owed allegiance emerged during this later phase. "Atheism" arose as a pejorative concept formulated by stakeholders in organized religion that could be used to smear those who weren't "with the program".
In other words, I believe some measure of belief in supernatural or paranormal forces / entities / etc. pre-dated organized religion.
Whisky number two.Beer number four.
Scotch?I like to solve the mystery
For example: I don't deny people see ghosts, I believe in the phenomenon. I'd like to know what's going on there. But I don't think ghosts are some kind of independent thing.
Yes, this.
I believe that our brains are so conditioned/evolved to seek faces and hominids amongst the background and interpret their pre-language communications, that we have a 'circuit' in the brain that detects a faint 'persona' signal whatever we look at. So we see faces in toast and 'see' naiads and dryads and great beings in the sky.
I can easily feel as if a dark deep pond is watching me (been there) but I know it's an echo and enjoy the feeling anyway.
Whisky number two.
The problem as I see it with atheism is it's not based on anything. Instead of a person simply stating that if there is a God then I'm not interested or I don't want to even think about it or even that I couldn't careless, or even that science hasn't proved it so it can't be. Many people instead try to justify themselves as atheists with 'there is no God' as if that is some type of logic.I tend to think animism and other early belief structures arose as a folkloric means for explain phenomena, create lore to pass on to newer generations, and attempt magical influence on the environment. The concept of other beings that influenced or controlled things dates all the way back to this phase. I'm not confident the sort of individual existential questions we associate with religion today (and you quoted) were significant motivators in this folkloric era.
I'm pretty sure what we know now as "organized religion" arose later as a power structure to codify and enforce social order as settled populations grew larger and the hierarchical levels of authority grew more prominent. The concept of only one or a few "Master God(s)" to whom one owed allegiance emerged during this later phase. "Atheism" arose as a pejorative concept formulated by stakeholders in organized religion that could be used to smear those who weren't "with the program".
In other words, I believe some measure of belief in supernatural or paranormal forces / entities / etc. pre-dated organized religion.