Cases That No Longer Seem As Good As You Once Thought

[BS3]

Everyone likes to discuss their most convincing or favourite UFO cases, but how about those which no longer seem as compelling as you once thought?

My own top two of this type are firstly, Teheran 1976, which increasingly seems like it could be one of those cases where a series of fairly mundane things occurs in an almost improbably coincidental order (see also Manises, 1979).

The other is the 1973 Mansfield, Ohio helicopter case, which now that I've revised my view of just how much witnesses can misperceive stuff, seems like it might have been a bolide.

Any more former personal favourites?

 

[Zeke Newbold]

Two come to mind:

The Warminster UFO flap of 1965.

I read Arthur Shuttlewood's The Warminster Mystery (!967) as a kid and took it all as gospel. With historical perspective the event doesn't look quite so impressive: the George Faulkner photo - which apparently was what got Shuttlewood interested in the first place has since - pretty much - been exposed as yet another fake.

The residents themselves referred to the phenomena as `The thing` rather than specifying UFOs - and indeed it includes such things as odd roaring noises and orbs of light. All of these now would be more likely to be viewed as some sort of localised natural phenomenon - such as plasma balls and the like.

Then there is the fact that there is a military base very close to the town.

Shuttlewood's role seems to account for a lot of the local `hysteria` or `concern` (choose which word you prefer) which arose around this - as being an influential journalist-cum-believer he acted as the conduit for it all much in the way that Alex Campbell did with the Loch Ness Monster in its early days.

The other one is `The Sirius Mystery` as promoted by Robert Temple. I once saw this as the Gold Standard of `paleo-SETI` and something that had to be reckoned with even if you saw through Von Daniken's rash claims. Then I read his 1997 reworking of the book and was niot impressed. It struck me as the work as a clearly highly intelligent and yet self-centered obscurantist crank.

There does seem to be evidence that the Dogon tribe had sufficient contact with the West to be able to know that Sirius B existed (this being the central `Sirius Mystery` around which Temple's whole series of claim revolves). Also - and this is from memory so correct me if I'm wrong - Temple claims that there is a Sirius C too- which the Dogon's also apparently knew about ( a real clinching argument!) - but the existence of a third sun has since been shown to be mistaken - I think I'm right in saying.

Edit to add: Feel free to re-enthuse me about these cases if you think you can. Sometimes one can be wrong about being wrong!

 

[Ronnie Jersey]

I find the 'Ilkley Moor Alien' case highly suspect.
Not sure why, but the photo of the 'alien' seems to be simply something normal, which has been mis-interpreted, which leaves the entire story in doubt.

 

[Coal]

The other one is `The Sirius Mystery` as promoted by Robert Temple. I once saw this as the Gold Standard of `paleo-SETI` and something that had to be reckoned with even if you saw through Von Daniken's rash claims. Then I read his 1997 reworking of the book and was niot impressed. It struck me as the work as a clearly highly intelligent and yet self-centered obscurantist crank.

Agree with you on this.

 

[JamesWhitehead]

Information, way back, dripped or trickled in. It could stop, completely.

Our imaginations went to work.

The relentless ever-present of the Web has rubbed a lot of it out.

So we get a bit irritated, when folk cling to their emotional-support phantoms.

'Tis the story of this board in a nutshell!

 

[Coal]

Tbh nearly everything Fortean around in the early 1980's is still at the same stage as they were then. No progress. I take the Baysian view.

 

[Paul_Exeter]

Rendlesham.

Oh to have been out there on those cold December nights. However, it has been pointed out by Dr David Clarke and others that at no time were the UK's air defences mobilised during the entire Rendlesham affair. This is despite the US base storing nuclear weapons and all the claims of unknown arial craft sending down lights and basically interfering with an extremely important and strategic NATO base at the height of the Cold War.

Dr David Clarke did a very good job in dismantling the whole affair on this podcast:

https://audioboom.com/posts/7883148...th-dr-david-clarke?playlist_direction=forward

I know he is a controversial figure in Ufological circles but it is essential listening as he explodes so many of the myths that have grown up around this case.

 

[BS3]

Rendlesham.

Oh to have been out there on those cold December nights. However, it has been pointed out by Dr David Clarke and others that at no time were the UK's air defences mobilised during the entire Rendlesham affair. This is despite the US base storing nuclear weapons and all the claims of unknown arial craft sending down lights and basically interfering with an extremely important and strategic NATO base at the height of the Cold War.

Dr David Clarke did a very good job in dismantling the whole affair on this podcast:

https://audioboom.com/posts/7883148...th-dr-david-clarke?playlist_direction=forward

I know he is a controversial figure in Ufological circles but it is essential listening as he explodes so many of the myths that have grown up around this case.

I did wonder whether Rendlesham would appear in this thread. As originally presented, the evidence seemed quite remarkable.

Following the work carried out on the case by @Comfortably Numb and others it now seems clear that the witnesses were likely misinterpreting a series of mundane things - as often happens in UFO cases - unless there is an element of truth to the 'spy film drop' theory.

 

[Paul_Exeter]

I did wonder whether Rendlesham would appear in this thread. As originally presented, the evidence seemed quite remarkable.

Following the work carried out on the case by @Comfortably Numb and others it now seems clear that the witnesses were likely misinterpreting a series of mundane things - as often happens in UFO cases - unless there is an element of truth to the 'spy film drop' theory.

Here os a summary of the spy film drop theory, complete with an image of the capsule:

https://www.coasttocoastam.com/article/could-this-capsule-explain-the-rendlesham-ufo-incident/

I must have overlooked this when it first surfaced and it does have some merit

 

[BS3]

Here os a summary of the spy film drop theory, complete with an image of the capsule:

https://www.coasttocoastam.com/article/could-this-capsule-explain-the-rendlesham-ufo-incident/

I must have overlooked this when it first surfaced and it does have some merit

I've seen it referenced by a few people and it does certainly have some convincing aspects. One of the main ones is that the Iran hostage crisis was going on at the time of the 1980 incident, so there is every reason to think there might have been additional espionage activity in the same timeframe.

 

[Paul_Exeter]

I've seen it referenced by a few people and it does certainly have some convincing aspects. One of the main ones is that the Iran hostage crisis was going on at the time of the 1980 incident, so there is every reason to think there might have been additional espionage activity in the same timeframe.

This was the US spy satellite system in use at the time of Rendlesham:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KH-9_Hexagon

There is a schematic of the re-entry capsule used here:

https://www.thespacereview.com/article/3937/1

Looks just like that thing that landed at Kecksburg and it seems I'm not alone in thinking that:

"The unidentified flying object that came down Dec. 9, 1965, they say, was a General Electric Mark 2 Re-entry Vehicle that had been launched by the Air Force as a spy satellite, but fell out of orbit."

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/s...O-is-identified-probably/stories/201512060146

 

[EnolaGaia]

Here os a summary of the spy film drop theory, complete with an image of the capsule ...

That's not an image of a KH-series / HEXAGON film re-entry / recovery capsule. The picture shows a "boilerplate" Apollo Command Module on statis display. "Boilerplate" Apollo capsules were essentially empty shells (no internal equipment) used for testing and evaluation.

An Apollo Command Module was 12 ft. 10 in. (154 inches) in diameter at its base (the wider end).

The KH / HEXAGON re-entry / recovery capsules were of two types - one 33 inches in diameter, and the other 58 inches in diameter. Neither one resembled an Apollo Command Module.

 

[Paul_Exeter]

That's not an image of a KH-series / HEXAGON film re-entry / recovery capsule. The picture shows a "boilerplate" Apollo Command Module on statis display. "Boilerplate" Apollo capsules were essentially empty shells (no internal equipment) used for testing and evaluation.

An Apollo Command Module was 12 ft. 10 in. (154 inches) in diameter at its base (the wider end).

The KH / HEXAGON re-entry / recovery capsules were of two types - one 33 inches in diameter, and the other 58 inches in diameter. Neither one resembled an Apollo Command Module.

Yes, you have a point.

However, the General Electric Mark 2 re-entry vehicle touted as a candidate for Kecksburg measured 5ft x 5ft 2in., 1800lb. (152.4 x 157.48cm, 816.5kg)

 

[EnolaGaia]

Yes, you have a point.
However, the General Electric Mark 2 re-entry vehicle touted as a candidate for Kecksburg measured 5ft x 5ft 2in., 1800lb. (152.4 x 157.48cm, 816.5kg)

Yes, but ... That was Kecksburg (1965). Here we're talking Rendlesham in 1980, when the GE re-entry vehicle used on KH / HEXAGON (for the mapping camera only) was a smaller Mark V recovery vehicle only circa 33 inches in diameter.

In any case, the KH / CORONA / HEXAGON re-entry capsules were supposed to drop and be captured over the Pacific Ocean rather than anywhere near Europe.

 

[Paul_Exeter]

Yes, but ... That was Kecksburg (1965). Here we're talking Rendlesham in 1980, when the GE re-entry vehicle used on KH / HEXAGON (for the mapping camera only) was a smaller Mark V recovery vehicle only circa 33 inches in diameter.

In any case, the KH / CORONA / HEXAGON re-entry capsules were supposed to drop and be captured over the Pacific Ocean rather than anywhere near Europe.

Yes, pretty much rules out this possibility for Rendlesham unless there was a 'boilerplate' involved. There has certainly been a large amount of exaggeration and 'evolving testimony' involved....

 

[Frideswide]

Roswell and Rendlesham.

 

[BS3]

Funny thing about Roswell is that for years it really was seen as nothing at all, before being resurrected in the late 1970s

 

[Coal]

Funny thing about Roswell is that for years it really was seen as nothing at all, before being resurrected in the late 1970s

Shocker.

 

[Ronnie Jersey]

Great thing about Roswell is that Lt. Col. Jesse Marcel decided to report what he experienced 30 years before.

 

[Ascalon]

From what seemed initially like a very compelling story, the Yonaguni Monument, AKA the underwater Japanese pyramid, seems to have faded as a man made structure.

Other cases from my youth, such as the South American crystal skulls, have now been debunked.

Many cryptids have fallen to modern techniques such as environmental DNA sweeps etc, with no sample I've ever heard of standing up to scrutiny.

The Tunguska event seems to have been fairly comprehensively shown to be a metal metorite, probably nickel that exploded in an air burst. So, while interesting, is not very Fortean.

And still, we have no flying cars.

What is the world coming to?

 

[catseye]

The Tunguska event seems to have been fairly comprehensively shown to be a metal metorite, probably nickel that exploded in an air burst. So, while interesting, is not very Fortean.

I would argue that any unusual event is Fortean by its very nature. It doesn't have to be paranormal or supernatural to engage us in a way that I am sure Fort would approve of. Meteorites - indeed anything - falling from space would seem to be right up the great man's street.

 

[Ascalon]

I would argue that any unusual event is Fortean by its very nature. It doesn't have to be paranormal or supernatural to engage us in a way that I am sure Fort would approve of. Meteorites - indeed anything - falling from space would seem to be right up the great man's street.

Indeed, I see what you are saying, but it was just the magnitude of the event in Tunguska suggested something even more exotic than an air burst nickel meteorite.

While still an extraordinary event, it is not a supernatural one

 

[Coal]

Indeed, I see what you are saying, but it was just the magnitude of the event in Tunguska suggested something even more exotic than an air burst nickel meteorite.

e=mc^2

 

[BS3]

Another one is the Trans-en-Provence case, which thanks to the GEPAN study has had a high status in the past as a "scientifically investigated" event.

It turns out the witness may have been a little confused about the time: if the time he gave was correct, the sighting would have been at dusk and visibility would have been very poor. If however the sighting took place slightly earlier, at sunset, it would have coincided with the time an Aerospaciale Alouette II helicopter was established by GEPAN to have been flying over the area at fairly low height. Given that the 'ground traces' in the earliest accounts were simply described as looking like tyre marks, there seems a high possibility of some kind of misperception of the helicopter, coupled with some unrelated ground traces.