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Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19): Conspiracy Theories & Claims

I don't see how you can claim that the Guardian implies that when it was written in 2018, before COVID and the vaccines.
My error. I find it odd I came across the same article in quite a few places the other week in relationship to athletes having a heart attack of dying whilst playing. I was searching for current statistics in the MSM as a friend disputed that it is worse now than before the vaccine roll out.

As he will only accept what the MSM comes out with, I was looking there. Of course, I couldn't find anything of use except that very same article or ones very similar to it.
 
Another piece of information relating to younger people dying from heart attack is, that many, if not most people who have a heart attack at a young age (30’s or younger) die as a result of the heart attack. I do wonder why it seems that a person with an older heart has a better survival rate. Perhaps it is because the heart disease is not as severe as that in someone with problems earlier. Or symptoms are not recognized in younger people and therefore they are not treated quickly enough. Genetic defects that may lead to a heart attack would not be recognized only for the same reason genetic defects are not recognized for other health issues (unless the health issue is mainly caused by a genetic defect) - until it happens, you don’t know to look for it.
 
My error. I find it odd I came across the same article in quite a few places the other week in relationship to athletes having a heart attack of dying whilst playing. I was searching for current statistics in the MSM as a friend disputed that it is worse now than before the vaccine roll out.

As he will only accept what the MSM comes out with, I was looking there. Of course, I couldn't find anything of use except that very same article or ones very similar to it.
I find that MSM seems to be like the Readers D. of the online world. It posts whatever it finds that it thinks people will spend time reading. To me it is close to clickbait. It is not interested in providing an all rounded source of information.
 
Or symptoms are not recognized in younger people and therefore they are not treated quickly enough.
That, I think. Older people are already on some medication and are told to 'take it easy'.
Young people just think, 'heck, I can run 2 marathons today and then lift weights for 3 hours - that twinge in my chest will just go away'.
 
Sorry, I'm a bit short tempered today. Please forgive me, but please also take the time to watch the video.
I did not take your response as short tempered. Sorry I won’t watch the video as I can’t even understand the research information, so watching the video will not work for me.

Like you, I have my own views on vaccination in general. This is a conspiracy thread and thus the back and forth of differing ideas.

Unfortunately, the disease we know as Covid has been politicized and people are having difficulty deciphering what is real and useful information. I do believe that initially, every party (governments and medical researchers) were trying to get out information as quickly as possible to people. Covid was unknown and the possibility of it being deadly was high. Other SARS virus outbreaks have been very lethal, just not good with transmission. They have killed medical professionals who have treated the patients. To let something similar like this to be loosed on the world with no warning would have been unconscionable.
 
That, I think. Older people are already on some medication and are told to 'take it easy'.
Young people just think, 'heck, I can run 2 marathons today and then lift weights for 3 hours - that twinge in my chest will just go away'.
Also, that medical professionals don’t recognize the symptoms, if any. It is very like the fact that heart attacks in many women are not identified because the symptoms differ from men. Research is still skewed to studies of the disease in men.
 
I find that MSM seems to be like the Readers D. of the online world. It posts whatever it finds that it thinks people will spend time reading. To me it is close to clickbait. It is not interested in providing an all rounded source of information.
I've only just realised or found out the truth of what you posted. I typed in to google 'heart attacks deaths athletes footballers statistics 2022' or very similar. I had assumed all the results would be from 2022. They weren't. They were from differing years and most were pro vaccine results and nothing to do with what I was searching for.
 
I've only just realised or found out the truth of what you posted. I typed in to google 'heart attacks deaths athletes footballers statistics 2022' or very similar. I had assumed all the results would be from 2022. They weren't. They were from differing years and most were pro vaccine results and nothing to do with what I was searching for.
I really find goggle search engine irritating. People can pay to put their sites on top of the search results list. I can spend too much time trying to word my requests to actually get an answer relating to my search. And it also irritates me that when I click on a site either unintentionally (usually when I forget to see the "ad" logo with the link) or because I think it might relate to what I'm asking for, that my click adds to the algorithms that pick out the supposed correct link only because of numbers of clicks:comphit:. It's difficult and sometimes almost impossible to get any different sources of information. Many individual suggestions are the same source, referenced differently. And I try to find a date of article written, as some don't have these, so that I can see how current the information is.

This problem is not new. I've had a home computer for more than 10 years (not long compared to some) and ran into this almost immediately. For someone who likes to learn new things, the search engines almost make it impossible for discovery.
 
Brownmane I know what you mean by having to ask the exact question to get the answer you want. Sometimes I need help to complete a puzzle and was gobsmacked the other day when I asked for a word to go after blow. I ended up on an x rated page.
 
So how does a person get an accurate answer to the actual question asked?

I typed in a question to google fully expecting the results to reflect the question I asked. It didn't do that at all. I trusted the search results and was horrified to realise the answers were designed to give the results wanted by who ever controls this horrible new something we now have. I don't even know what to call it. Is google now useless and yet another cog in the disinformation syndrome that now plagues society designed to push everyone down a particular path according to who ever decides such things?

Maybe I'm too trusting. I trusted google. I feel stupid now.
 
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I really find goggle search engine irritating. People can pay to put their sites on top of the search results list. I can spend too much time trying to word my requests to actually get an answer relating to my search. And it also irritates me that when I click on a site either unintentionally (usually when I forget to see the "ad" logo with the link) or because I think it might relate to what I'm asking for, that my click adds to the algorithms that pick out the supposed correct link only because of numbers of clicks:comphit:. It's difficult and sometimes almost impossible to get any different sources of information. Many individual suggestions are the same source, referenced differently. And I try to find a date of article written, as some don't have these, so that I can see how current the information is.

This problem is not new. I've had a home computer for more than 10 years (not long compared to some) and ran into this almost immediately. For someone who likes to learn new things, the search engines almost make it impossible for discovery.
So how does a person get an accurate answer to the actual question asked?

I typed in a question to google fully expecting the results to reflect the question I asked. It didn't do that at all. I trusted the search results and was horrified to realise the answers were designed to give the results wanted by who ever controls this horrible new something we now have. I don't even know what to call it. Is google now useless and yet another cog in the disinformation syndrome that now plagues society designed to push everyone down a particular path according to who ever decides such things?

Maybe I'm too trusting. I trusted google and AI. I feel stupid now.
 
So how does a person get an accurate answer to the actual question asked?

I typed in a question to google fully expecting the results to reflect the question I asked. It didn't do that at all. I trusted the search results and was horrified to realise the answers were designed to give the results wanted by who ever controls this horrible new something we now have. I don't even know what to call it. Is google now useless and yet another cog in the disinformation syndrome that now plagues society designed to push everyone down a particular path according to who ever decides such things?

Maybe I'm too trusting. I trusted google. I feel stupid now.
I would not accuse anyone of being stupid for trying to find information. I think it is important for people to recognize the shortcomings of these programs and that these search engines, as well as social platforms have been designed to manipulate people and to commodify our interests.

If it is available to you, the documentary “The Social Dilemma” ( on Netfl*cks afaik) is very eye opening as to how algorithms are really designed to work. There are several of the early developers of the different social media platforms who talk of how they saw that algorithms could be used to help people and how they actually are used.
 
So how does a person get an accurate answer to the actual question asked?

I typed in a question to google fully expecting the results to reflect the question I asked. It didn't do that at all. I trusted the search results and was horrified to realise the answers were designed to give the results wanted by who ever controls this horrible new something we now have. I don't even know what to call it. Is google now useless and yet another cog in the disinformation syndrome that now plagues society designed to push everyone down a particular path according to who ever decides such things?

Maybe I'm too trusting. I trusted google. I feel stupid now.
Try alternative search engines for different results.
DuckDuckGo?
Dogpile?
Yahoo?
 
Try alternative search engines for different results.
DuckDuckGo?
Dogpile?
Yahoo?
Thanks. I tried that with various search engines and basically got the same results, i.e. no answer too the question asked. I changed the wording of the question several times and again got the same results. To me it begs the question as to whether the flow of information to the masses, which includes me, is being controlled.

Dogpile? Not heard of that one.
 
Thanks. I tried that with various search engines and basically got the same results, i.e. no answer too the question asked. I changed the wording of the question several times and again got the same results. To me it begs the question as to whether the flow of information to the masses, which includes me, is being controlled.

Dogpile? Not heard of that one.
Dogpile is a meta-search engine. It's fairly ancient.
It essentially harvests results from multiple search engines.
 
So, I asked google and this is what I got. lol

Is there a search engine that is not biased?

Mojeek is a crawler-based search engine with its own search index of over 4 billion pages. This makes it excellent for unbiased information. But it also means there may be limited results, as it doesn't pull results from other search engines.Feb 10, 2022
 
So, I asked google and this is what I got. lol

Is there a search engine that is not biased?

Mojeek is a crawler-based search engine with its own search index of over 4 billion pages. This makes it excellent for unbiased information. But it also means there may be limited results, as it doesn't pull results from other search engines.Feb 10, 2022
That's based in Brighton, so @kesavaross is practically their neighbour!
 
So, I asked google and this is what I got. lol

Is there a search engine that is not biased?

Mojeek is a crawler-based search engine with its own search index of over 4 billion pages. This makes it excellent for unbiased information. But it also means there may be limited results, as it doesn't pull results from other search engines.Feb 10, 2022
Cheers for that. I didn't think to ask a search engine for an unbiased search engine. I found exactly what I'm after at the first go using Mojeek.
 
Google is well known to censor it's results, with some websites and content just being totally removed from the search results and replaced with a 'debunking' answer instead.
They have whole office blocks of staff dedicated to 'filtering' the search results.
As was evidenced by the publication of the Great Barrington Declaration which was completely excised from all results and a search for it gave you a load of things that served to discredit the paper and it's authors.
At least now Google will actually give the link to their own site as the top answer, but it does make you wonder about other scenarios in which Google does not allow searches to actually provide a balanced set of results.
 
I did not take your response as short tempered. Sorry I won’t watch the video as I can’t even understand the research information, so watching the video will not work for me.

Like you, I have my own views on vaccination in general. This is a conspiracy thread and thus the back and forth of differing ideas.

Unfortunately, the disease we know as Covid has been politicized and people are having difficulty deciphering what is real and useful information. I do believe that initially, every party (governments and medical researchers) were trying to get out information as quickly as possible to people. Covid was unknown and the possibility of it being deadly was high. Other SARS virus outbreaks have been very lethal, just not good with transmission. They have killed medical professionals who have treated the patients. To let something similar like this to be loosed on the world with no warning would have been unconscionable.
Well, I am both flabbergasted and flattered at the same time. The research for the study listed is from one of the most respected and trustworthy centres in the world. It is Cleveland Ohio, 50 thousand people over a 3 month period. The dosage data listed is from a graph that is in the video, I have no idea how to lift anything or copy anything from a video, sorry. I don't know how you can expect me to give you better answers than they do and yet that's what you asked me to do. I can do this...

Here is the link to the entire study that also includes the graphs, I hope this will be more useful for you. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.12.17.22283625v1.full
 
Cheers for that. I didn't think to ask a search engine for an unbiased search engine. I found exactly what I'm after at the first go using Mojeek.
Be interesting to know if ChatGPT can answer your question - I gather it uses the whole internet to answer, bit like wisdom of crowds.
 
I gather it uses the whole internet to answer,
Yeah, cos 'the whole internet' has never been wrong about anything ever, has it.
Bear in mind, 'the whole internet' also has 'cat videos', Mr Blobby, Georgio A Tsoukalos and David Icke.
 
Well, I am both flabbergasted and flattered at the same time. The research for the study listed is from one of the most respected and trustworthy centres in the world. It is Cleveland Ohio, 50 thousand people over a 3 month period. The dosage data listed is from a graph that is in the video, I have no idea how to lift anything or copy anything from a video, sorry. I don't know how you can expect me to give you better answers than they do and yet that's what you asked me to do. I can do this...

Here is the link to the entire study that also includes the graphs, I hope this will be more useful for you. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.12.17.22283625v1.full
Ok, so I see that I misinterpreted the numbers as percentage of people who contracted Covid. Rather the dose numbers were percentage of people with varying vaccine doses. However, I do question the number of people who tested positive for Covid during the period of study and how some might interpret them.

From article:

“Participants​

CCHS employees in employment at any Cleveland Clinic location in Ohio on 12 September 2022, the day the bivalent vaccine first became available to employees, were included in the study. Those for whom age and gender were not available were excluded.”

The way that Covid infection is identified in people is through detection of antibodies for Covid through PCR test. It is very accurate. It is known that people who have been vaccinated will have antibodies present due to the vaccine. It is also common practise, especially in healthcare, that if rapid testing and PCR testing is done as a preventative measure for keeping Covid at bay in workplace, or hospital etc, that those who have recently had a vaccine, report this as they will show positive for Covid.

This study included people who had just had the bivalent vaccine. The numbers showing the increasing rates of people with antibodies ie those with the greater number of doses, would have had greater chance of more antibodies detected because of the timing of their vaccination and the testing. It does not mean that they had Covid.

What the numbers do reflect is that the further from your infection or vaccination period, the fewer number of antibodies against Covid are detected in your body. This is known. In my opinion, these recently vaccinated people should not have been included in the study as they skew the results.

I think that it would be difficult if not impossible to link more vaccine doses to higher incidences of risk of Covid. If a longer time range of study is done, ie at one year, maybe, but like flu vaccinations, the vaccines only prevent risk of more severe disease, not like measles vaccines which provide lifetime immunity. Our bodies lose immunity, although not entirely to square one, to Covid. This is true in both vaccinated and unvaccinated.
 
It's not PVS though, or Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, or anything else. Take that from someone who has it. (And knows people with those other conditions). The fact it's been dismissed as merely CFS, for example, is infuriating to people with LC.
We'll have to differ over that.

It's difficult to make such a statement because no-one, anywhere, is sure of the mechanisms that cause CFS, PVS, or Long Covid.

The seriousness of PVS can vary depending on the virus that preceded it - West Nile virus is apparently the worst (prior to Covid) and can leave people seriously affected for 5 years or more. And PVS symptoms, unlike CFS, can actually cripple people through both chronic joint pain and stiff joints.

At least I'm not among that group of people that think all three are all in the mind.
one explanation I'd heard proposed is tissue damage that is somewhat akin to scar tissue... but in places less physically obvious. Actually finding the specific location of the damage? Heh, can't do it in a living subject. Needs to be recently deceased... very recently.
 
Of course that is true. For the vast majority of injections and the vast majority of people. Otherwise they would not be used. But ALL vaccines have some risk of side effects, and people should be properly informed about them.

The situation with the Covid vaccines is rather more dangerous, though. Neither the original vaccines nor the boosters have undergone a proper series of test cycles, and moreover most of the vaccines use a novel technology which has not passed testing in previous incarnations when developing non-Covid vaccines. And if boosters are, allegedly going to be required at 6 monthly or even 4-monthly intervals, then of course each additional injection increases the cumulative risk.

Because I'm old enough to have grown up with Thalidomide and it's effects - none, fortunately in my extended family - I am still aware of how long it took to realise the disaster that it was. Given that the Covid vaccines have been given to most of the world's population, can you imagine the scale of the disaster if something similar develops regarding them? And RNA-DNA is intimately connected with reproduction. Has anyone actually tested the effects of a mother conceiving while a modified RNA gene is floating about in her system?
Well, yeah, it's very possible that the injected DNA could.be inherited.... assuming it doesn't cause a fatal developmental anomaly in a fetus.

The intent is seemingly that the "treatment" doesn't reach germ cells. But... what method actually prevents that? Seemingly merely dispersal patterns of injection..... if that actually has limited enough spread to not get that far.

See, being "anti-vax"... isn't necessarily condemning the concept of vaccinations, but ensuring that they're safe. what's the point of "medicine" if it doesn't make you better?
 
Another piece of information relating to younger people dying from heart attack is, that many, if not most people who have a heart attack at a young age (30’s or younger) die as a result of the heart attack. I do wonder why it seems that a person with an older heart has a better survival rate. Perhaps it is because the heart disease is not as severe as that in someone with problems earlier. Or symptoms are not recognized in younger people and therefore they are not treated quickly enough. Genetic defects that may lead to a heart attack would not be recognized only for the same reason genetic defects are not recognized for other health issues (unless the health issue is mainly caused by a genetic defect) - until it happens, you don’t know to look for it.
Hmm... I started looking into heart disease as a teen since my grandpa had heart trouble and my folks wanted me to look out for him.

I actually ended up talking with one of the doctors about it, and well.. one thing was that "cardiac events"... actually happen in young people... they just aren't usually fatal and often are no more severe than having your heart "skip a beat". That can be just because the nerves making your heart beat misfired. But it's a minor blip and you'd barely notice. It's a different severity of scale and effect.
 
W
one explanation I'd heard proposed is tissue damage that is somewhat akin to scar tissue... but in places less physically obvious. Actually finding the specific location of the damage? Heh, can't do it in a living subject. Needs to be recently deceased... very recently.
Wouldn't surprise me. Many people with LC go for these respiratory tests but come back as "normal" even though they struggle to breathe. Whatever is going on, the tests don't yet really seem to exist to pin it down.

I thought all along it's inflammatory somehow, but also I get things my friend with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome doesn't get. I hope any research into LC will benefit people with other, similar things but I wouldn't bet on it. There's definitely some weird thing going on with histamine. If I get stung by a nettle now, it still feels the same as if I did it seconds ago, a day later... All sorts of weird stuff.
 
See, being "anti-vax"... isn't necessarily condemning the concept of vaccinations, but ensuring that they're safe. what's the point of "medicine" if it doesn't make you better?
I get the impression that you believe that people have ignorantly (and maybe those who like to blame and name call) put you into this box. Most people are not antI-vaxxers ie. reject all vaccinations. You are vaccine hesitant and asking questions is normal.

As I have expressed in earlier posts, this pandemic was made to be political. It should not have been. The true anti-vaxxer groups used this to their benefit. People’s health and welfare should have remained at the forefront.
 
See, being "anti-vax"... isn't necessarily condemning the concept of vaccinations, but ensuring that they're safe. what's the point of "medicine" if it doesn't make you better?
The thing is, medical treatments - and this goes far wider than 'vaccines' - are not 'safe' . Because we - as a society - have lost perspective and imagine 'safe' means 'cannot do harm'.

There is virtually no medical treatment that cannot do harm. It is always a balance of risk. If doctors actually stuck to 'first do no harm' they'd never be able to treat anyone.

However, this makes it of vital importance that the risks of treatment are understood, and that cannot possibly the case with the Covid vaccines because of the very short duration of the tests.

And the misjudgement of risk was compounded by what (in the UK at least) seemed to be reckless inflation of the numbers who actually died of Covid19 - no post mortems, no need to have two opinions, etc etc,. all the checks and balances we introduced after Shipman abandoned at a stroke.

If your stats are unreliable all your conclusions therefrom will be wrong.
 
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