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People Who Just Disappear (Go Missing)

It says the door was locked, but the wifes keys were not taken and the husband unlocked the door when he came home,
the daughter says the man locked the door and has the wife was security conscious likely had a key with him to
get in and lock the door on the way out, possibly to keep the kids safe or maybe to stop them raising the alarm,
he also picked a night when hubby was out late, luck?

Interesting.
:dunno:
 
I noticed this story a couple of weeks ago, a woman and her partner go missing after abandoning their car on fire. Police are especially concerned as she has just given birth and has had no medical care. The man is a registered sex offender although there is no suggestion of any connection here as to why they went missing. She is from an extremely wealthy family. Her father was on Radio 4 this morning appealing for her to return with her baby. It is all very soap opera like.

The curious case of Constance "Toots" Marten and Mark Gordon.



More at the link.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64320904
I heard that too. Have to say, that baby won't survive long if they're living rough. Might already be dead. It's not as if Dad is of much use.
 
It says the door was locked, but the wifes keys were not taken and the husband unlocked the door when he came home,
the daughter says the man locked the door and has the wife was security conscious likely had a key with him to
get in and lock the door on the way out, possibly to keep the kids safe or maybe to stop them raising the alarm,
he also picked a night when hubby was out late, luck?

Interesting.
:dunno:
I think its unlikely to have been a coincidence that she was kidnapped on an evening when her husband just happened to be out. The article says that since Dorothy's earlier attack, he rarely left his wife alone.

The abductor clearly had a key , so implies that either he was given one at some point, or managed to get hold of one and have a copy made .
It must have been someone who knew either Jules or Dorothy,
It's odd that the police seem not to have investigated further , and were quick to write off the little girl's story as a fabrication. I read in another article that the child was evaluated by two child psychologists and it was their opinion that she was telling the truth .
 
I read about the following case years ago and it has always haunted me, for some reason. This woman vanished under very odd circumstances. Thoughts anyone? What do you think happened to this lady?



https://www.americanhauntingsink.com/the-vanished-housewife

My guess? She was over the side with a wrong ‘un. “Red silk pyjamas” seems a little overdone for a 1940s suburban housewife whose husband was going to be late home from a political banquet.

My guess is that Mr. Lover-Lover let himself in with his own copy of the key. He and the deceased possibly had a row, and she ends up dead. He leaves, checks the street for bystanders, maybe deactivates an inconvenient external light and opens his car boot.

On his return to pick up the body, the little girl has awoken. If he’d been some random nutcase, the “logical” thing to do would have been to eliminate the witness. Because of his familiarity with the family, he risks leaving her alive.

He carries the body out, locks the door, dumps her into his car boot and disposes of the evidence.

maximus otter
 
My guess? She was over the side with a wrong ‘un. “Red silk pyjamas” seems a little overdone for a 1940s suburban housewife whose husband was going to be late home from a political banquet.

My guess is that Mr. Lover-Lover let himself in with his own copy of the key. He and the deceased possibly had a row, and she ends up dead. He leaves, checks the street for bystanders, maybe deactivates an inconvenient external light and opens his car boot.

On his return to pick up the body, the little girl has awoken. If he’d been some random nutcase, the “logical” thing to do would have been to eliminate the witness. Because of his familiarity with the family, he risks leaving her alive.

He carries the body out, locks the door, dumps her into his car boot and disposes of the evidence.

maximus otter
I did wonder if The abductor may have been someone Dorothy had let in voluntarily, or ,as you suggest , had a key. Perhaps the abduction had nothing to do with the first incident , where she was beaten up. That could have been some random nutter or a stalker. Or perhaps dorothy had a secret double life, and went out with other men. What happened to her could have been the consequences of that.
Then again , perhaps her husband wanted rid of her . Perhaps a divorce would have been too messy or damaging to his career or reputation. Perhaps he hired someone to take her out and gave them a key . It's odd that the husband returned home only 15 minutes after the strange man had left with Dorothy . Its a very odd case , indeed
 
I came across this in connection with the Nicola Bulley case.

Nicola Bulley search brings back painful memories for mum whose husband disappeared

Finn Creaney went missing on Friday, March 25 last year after he started a lone hike in Loch Naver, Sutherland, but he never came home. The father-of-one has not been seen since

The dad to a five-year-old daughter from Tain, Scotland, has not been seen since and his wife said that the uncertainty of his whereabouts was causing her “torture” and “pain”.

As in the Nicola Bulley case, the police and search and rescue teams have covered much ground to help find him, with the hunt covered on foot, by air and with divers in the water.

Mr Creaney was an “experienced and confident survivalist” who had intended to embark on a lone 40-kilometre hike, despite the unseasonably hot spring weekend.

A family member had dropped him off at a caravan park on the B873 road at 2.15pm, and he had planned to walk around the loch before
heading south to Golspie.

This was his final confirmed sighting, with his phone cutting off at 1.47pm in the village of Lairg.

The last time his wife heard from him was in a voicemail he left at 12.52pm, where he told her “I love you lots and I’m really proud of you”.

She had expected Mr Creaney home around noon on Sunday, but when he had still not appeared by Monday she reported him missing to the police.
1676076508441.png
 
I'm wondering how long it'll take before folks link the 'fuss' with a middle-class woman's disappearance compared with the hundreds of other missing persons cases.
More power to the elbow of the authorities publicising and getting a result but like the McCann case, there's already a question of "Considering other missing person cases, why has this hit national headlines?"
 
I'm wondering how long it'll take before folks link the 'fuss' with a middle-class woman's disappearance compared with the hundreds of other missing persons cases.
More power to the elbow of the authorities publicising and getting a result but like the McCann case, there's already a question of "Considering other missing person cases, why has this hit national headlines?"
Social class of victim.
 
I'm wondering how long it'll take before folks link the 'fuss' with a middle-class woman's disappearance compared with the hundreds of other missing persons cases.
More power to the elbow of the authorities publicising and getting a result but like the McCann case, there's already a question of "Considering other missing person cases, why has this hit national headlines?"

We will see more like this. It's True Crime As It Happens.
Well, as it's not so far proved to be a crime it's more of a Mysterious Disappearance As It Happens.

Not being flippant here. It's a new art form.
 
Finally, the police are admitting they might find the land where she disappeared “not very forensically friendly areas”.
Well, yeah - so obsessed with the river as the location, they didn't seal off the area around the bench from the public. Seems to me that scouring the outfall at sea is doubling-down on their obsession.
Sure, they might be leaving no stone unturned, but it's starting to look like incompetance.
(Yahoo news item: https://uk.yahoo.com/news/trace-nicola-bulley-where-she-164505081.html)
 
Finally, the police are admitting they might find the land where she disappeared “not very forensically friendly areas”.
Well, yeah - so obsessed with the river as the location, they didn't seal off the area around the bench from the public. Seems to me that scouring the outfall at sea is doubling-down on their obsession.
Sure, they might be leaving no stone unturned, but it's starting to look like incompetance.
(Yahoo news item: https://uk.yahoo.com/news/trace-nicola-bulley-where-she-164505081.html)
I was reading an article yesterday by a former Met Police Chief who was saying the whole investigation has been botched. He was saying that the whole immediate area should have been sealed off. He was explaining that on the investigations he had done that were similar cases to this, the first port of call was to seal off the surrounding area. He couldn't understand why this hasn't been done.
 
Calls to mind the case of the Keddy Cabin massacre in the States.
Crime scene almost turned into a public tour, officers contaminating the scene, messing about with evidence. In that case, most people consider the contamination was accidental but turned in favour of senior officers who wanted a cover-up.
Not saying this is the case with the Bulley disappearance but sealing off a potential crime scene is so basic that it's staggering it wasn't done. Even if it was a suicide or intentional disappearance, fans of detective fiction would know the value of footprints etc.
Heck, even Sherlock Holmes would've been outraged ... and he's fictional!
 
Not saying this is the case with the Bulley disappearance but sealing off a potential crime scene is so basic that it's staggering it wasn't done. Even if it was a suicide or intentional disappearance, fans of detective fiction would know the value of footprints etc.
Heck, even Sherlock Holmes would've been outraged ... and he's fictional!
I attended a sudden death on the railway last year and as usual with this sort of incident the police had initially set up a rather perfunctory cordon with just a couple of officers taping off a nearby footpath, mainly to stop members of the public from gawping at the body. However after about 45 minutes their efforts to cordon things off and secure the scene suddenly got rather more organised when some very suspicious circumstances came to light which elevated it from a routine suicide to potential murder enquiry. We had all been just blithely walking round (as you do, sadly these things just become routine) but after the discovery CID detectives promptly turned up, ordered everyone already on site back outside the now much expanded and enforced cordon, statements were taken from all who had been near the body and the scenes of crime folk did a full forensic survey and recovery which took several hours.

It turned out to be straightforward in the end - not murder.
 
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Q – If she was abducted, how did the perpetrator or perpetrators know the camera and microphone on Nicola’s phone weren’t active and being monitored and / or recorded elsewhere ? I don’t recall seeing this question being asked anywhere else.
 
I found this in an old newspaper report. The description is… interesting. I don’t know if she was found. Maybe she ran for the hills.

20 Jan 1900 Mysterious Disappearence of a Domestic Servant Northfleet Standard
"On Thursday week, about 2 o'clock, Mary Jane Leaman left her master's residence, The Briars, Longfield, Kent, for the purpose of shopping at Gravesend. She was afterwards heard of manking purchases in High Street of that town, about 4.30pm since which time no tidings of her whereabouts have been gleaned. Description: Hair, black and inclined to curl, not very long, small fringe; forehead, rather low with one or two lines across; eyebrows, black, rather close together and well marked; eyelashes, black and medium length; eyes, bright, rather small, hazel, with a touch of light brown; nose, small, short and inclined to turn up; lips, thin, rather pale, narrow, and not very curved; teeth, small; chin, small, rather prominent and denoting a strong will; complexion, rosy when in good health, mole on left side of face, a little below the mouth; ears, small and almost round; head altogether rather small and round, and face not fat; arms, strong looking, and not very long; hands, rather large, well formed, and showing signs of work; feet, rather large and long; inclinded to be stout; height 5ft 3ins; dressed when last seen: Hat, black straw, trimmed with white and black; jacket, brown, with rather large sleeves, big buttons and pockets; bodice and skirt, black, bodice trimmed with jet; gloves, probably brown or black kid, brown fur with tails round neck; brooch, small gold saftey pin with heart set with sparks; rings (1) plain gold band, set with 3 to 5 medium sized diamonds; (2) imitation ruby ring; watch, small, silver, with a short fancy chain and small gold padlock; handbag, small, brown and probably containing a small dark blue or black purse; basket, fancy rush, light fawn, with 2 handles. The police at Dartford, Longfield and Gravesend are investigating the matter and are desirous of tracing and finding her, and any reasonable expenses will be defrayed by her master on receipt of information proving her present whereabouts."
 
Finally, the police are admitting they might find the land where she disappeared “not very forensically friendly areas”.
Well, yeah - so obsessed with the river as the location, they didn't seal off the area around the bench from the public. Seems to me that scouring the outfall at sea is doubling-down on their obsession.
Sure, they might be leaving no stone unturned, but it's starting to look like incompetance.
(Yahoo news item: https://uk.yahoo.com/news/trace-nicola-bulley-where-she-164505081.html)

lt was, and remains, a missing person incident, not a crime.

If the police sealed off entire areas every time someone went missing, large parts of the UK would grind to a halt:

  • Someone is reported missing every 90 seconds in the UK
  • 170,000 people are reported missing every year
  • There are 353,000 reported missing incidents every year

https://www.missingpeople.org.uk/fo...arch/information-and-research/key-information

maximus otter
 
lt was, and remains, a missing person incident, not a crime.

If the police sealed off entire areas every time someone went missing, large parts of the UK would grind to a halt:

  • Someone is reported missing every 90 seconds in the UK
  • 170,000 people are reported missing every year
  • There are 353,000 reported missing incidents every year

https://www.missingpeople.org.uk/fo...arch/information-and-research/key-information

maximus otter

Yes. This.

You could argue that any actual 'crime scene' in an event which tends to contain so many unknowns is the entire footprint of the missing persons last hours. Even if you reduce the footprint of any such search to the last known sighting of a missing person (which is often not easy to fix at any point, certainly not necessarily known at the start of an investigation, and is always liable to change) the overall logistics of introducing such a process for all missing persons cases are unfeasibly phenomenal.

In practical terms, at the beginning of an investigation the fact of absence is, in and of itself, not enough to prove foul play - there have to be other indicative factors. In the absence of those the implication that such action was obviously necessary in this individual case, when it is not in others is most definitely moot.

(But wouldn't it be better for this to be on the dedicated thread?)
 
I understand that the vast majority of missing person reports in the UK come from childrens homes and similar care settings and relate to troubled kids who have either absconded or not returned at the agreed time. These establishments are required to contact the police immediately when they discover a child in their care is unaccounted for. Many of these kids will be ’disappearing’ multiple times a week and a lot of police time and resources are spent on rounding them up and returning them, just for them to do it again the next day.
 
Many of these kids will be ’disappearing’ multiple times a day...

FTFY

- And of course, as they are young and "vulnerable", they are automatically and inescapably categorised as "High-Risk MFH", necessitating a full police response. As each time the MFH was traced in the past it was often to a fresh address, and as each MFH not infrequently went missing multiple times per shift, the list of addresses to be checked lengthened uncontrollably. Imagine if each of them had to be proactively sealed for full forensic examination, and its local area taped off to prevent entry by the public...

If any fellow FTMB-ers have insomnia issues, here are the latest gold standard MFH investigation protocols from the College of Policing:

https://www.college.police.uk/app/m...ic-protection/missing-persons/missing-persons

Enjoy!

maximus otter
 
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I understand that the vast majority of missing person reports in the UK come from childrens homes and similar care settings and relate to troubled kids who have either absconded or not returned at the agreed time. These establishments are required to contact the police immediately when they discover a child in their care is unaccounted for. Many of these kids will be ’disappearing’ multiple times a week and a lot of police time and resources are spent on rounding them up and returning them, just for them to do it again the next day.
Yup, this was my experience when I worked in kids' homes.

However, if a teenager is often running away and returning of their own accord it's possible for the care staff and police to become complacent. In that case, by the time people are beginning to worry it might be too late.

This happened in a mental health facility where I worked; an adult patient used to slip out and go clubbing in the next city. He always came back, until he didn't and was found drowned in a pond next to the hospital grounds.
 
Fair enough.
I take your point about tying up resources. But surely, the local force might think "hang on - this isn't a kid in care who's run away. It's a lone woman"?
But a lone woman who might, just, also have turned out to have run away.
 
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