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HEY @maximus otter Rattus! Stick to criticizing your own country please. The people in Chicago, Detroit, Philidelphia, Oakland, Watts, Pittsburg, Cleveland, Atlanta, New York, Miami, Boston, Indianapolis, St. Louis, Kansas City, Nashville, Lexington, ..... ALL have the option of running away as quickly as possible. Which is what I did. :) (But I really did.)
Hey! I live in Cleveland!
 
We're just the end user. Those in power have allowed it get this bad.
No "we" have done this ourselves. Lets not pretend that a large proportion of the driving that people do is over very short, easily walkable or cycleable distances.

I learned to drive and have a licence but chose not to get a car because I could see that anyone who did then drove absolutely everywhere and refused to walk even the very shortest distances. I didn't want to be like that. I have discovered some exceptions throughout my life but those are very few and far between.

What no-one wants to admit is that if every driver who is able, walked for those short distances instead of driving, there would be a hell of a lot less congestion. And, since they would soon find out how crappy the pavements are and how long pedestrian crossings take to trigger, they would be an outcry and walking would become even easier. Maybe even cycling too.
 
Where has the 100 hundred times a year theory come from, does anyone know?

From Oxfordshire County Council itself:

“Oxfordshire County Council, supported by Oxford City Council, is proposing to install traffic filters as a trial on six roads in Oxford. The trial is currently planned to begin in 2024.

The traffic filters are not physical barriers of any kind and will not be physical road closures. They are simply traffic cameras that can read number plates.

If a vehicle passes through the filter at certain times of the day, the camera will read the number plate and (if you do not have an exemption or a residents’ permit) you will receive a fine in the post.

Oxford residents (and residents of some surrounding villages) will be able to apply for a permit to drive through the filters on up to 100 days a year. Residents living in the rest of Oxfordshire will be able to apply for a permit to drive through the filter on up to 25 days a year.

https://www.oxford.gov.uk/news/arti...ford_city_council_on_oxford_s_traffic_filters

Feel free to strew the words “yet”, “at the moment” and “until we decide to alter this number” over this document…

maximus otter
 
Today's Guardian online features (appropriately) a 15-minute podcast about 15-Minute Cities.
It's pretty well all about singing the praises of the strategy, rather than exploring potential concerns.
They suggest, not unreasonably, that opposition to such schemes may stem from people's experience during the pandemic lockdowns, where the public got a taste of what being constrained to your local neighbourhood felt like.
Oxford council does get a mention around the 12 minute mark, but only to dismiss any opposition to their scheme as "surreal" and "ridiculous".
There is no mention of the possibility of mission creep.
So, by no means a balanced presentation, but worth a listen for some background information and to appraise yourself of the clearly stated arguments in favour of the scheme.

15min.png



https://www.theguardian.com/science...planning-concept-or-global-conspiracy-podcast
 
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'Spiked' sum it all up rather well (and with references). And it's unilateral, not democratic.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/02/23/its-true-the-climate-fanatics-are-coming-for-your-car/

Take Oxford. If you say Oxford is turning itself into a ‘15-minute city’ – that is, a hyper-localised city in which you can get what you need within a 15-minute walk from your home – you’ll be mocked as a gullible fool. Oxford’s plans are being ‘jumped on by conspiracy theorists’ who are ‘falsely conflat[ing]’ different things, says one report. Slate calls it the ‘15-minute city conspiracy theory’ (why are American publications so bad at covering British issues?). As for the claim that Oxford is trialling a kind of ‘climate lockdown’, that’s yet another ‘conspiracy theory’, say the city’s councillors. And we’ve received a ‘torrent of abuse’ as a result of this ‘conspiracy theory’, they say. In short, everyone needs to calm down and pipe down.
Hold on a minute. Oxford really is bringing in ‘traffic filters’, though. And the intention really is to ‘reduce traffic levels in Oxford by targeting unnecessary journeys by cars’. Motorists really will be fined if they drive through the traffic filters during certain times of the day. And the aim really is to socially re-engineer the city’s populace out of using their cars – the road restrictions and financial punishments are designed to ‘make walking, cycling, public and shared transport the natural first choice’, boasts Oxfordshire County Council (my emphasis). That is, it’s a kind of sin tax, to use John Stuart Mill’s phrase, where you’ll be fined for the sin of driving in the hope that you’ll eventually feel so economically punished that you’ll choose walking instead. And all of this really is about protecting the climate from the fumes of Oxford’s motoring masses. It’s about ‘help[ing] tackle climate change’, Oxford says of its sinister traffic filters, which will be enforced by ‘automatic number plate recognition cameras’.
https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/02/24/ukraine-nationhood-matters/

I’m going to say it: this is a climate lockdown. It is perfectly legitimate to describe top-down, eco-justified restrictions on people’s freedom to drive as a climate lockdown. No, it isn’t the handiwork of the WEF and it isn’t part of a global plot to imprison us in our homes. But erecting cameras to spy on car-users and fining those who drive to certain parts of their own city, all with the intention of pressuring us to walk instead, is a breed of lockdown. It is illiberal, anti-modern and further proof that our green-leaning elites care little for the freedom or the bank balances of working people. Protesting against this isn’t ‘far right’ – it’s sensible and good.
 
Today's Guardian online features (appropriately) a 15-minute podcast about 15-Minute Cities.
It's pretty well all about singing the praises of the strategy, rather than exploring potential concerns.
They suggest, not unreasonably, that opposition to such schemes may stem from people's experience during the pandemic lockdowns, where the public got a taste of what being constrained to your local neighbourhood felt like.
Oxford council does get a mention around the 12 minute mark, but only to dismiss any opposition to their scheme as "surreal" and "ridiculous".
There is no mention of the possibility of mission creep.
So, by no means a balanced presentation, but worth a listen for some background information and to appraise yourself of the clearly stated arguments in favour of the scheme.

View attachment 63700


https://www.theguardian.com/science...planning-concept-or-global-conspiracy-podcast
"15 minute citys"? If you go to all the trouble making a sign like that..........Obviously no pedant within 15 minutes. :)
 
I hadn't heard about this until reading an article in today's Guardian in praise of "15-Minute Cities".

Based on Clarence Perry's early 1900s "Neighbourhood Unit" concept, in theory, it all sounds perfectly sensible and its supporters describe it thus "you should have your daily needs – work, food, healthcare, education, culture and leisure – within a 15-minute walk or bike ride from where you live."
So you wouldn't need to drive to an out-of-town shopping mall, or to commute to work, visit a recreational area etc.

Protestors though, regard it as socially divisive and fear it could lead to ghettoisation, with residents being restricted to their particular modular neighbourhood, or requiring to produce an authorised pass to travel further afield.

What do you reckon?
A pragmatic solution to human overpopulation and air pollution, or a potentially Orwellian nightmare?
I gather questions have now been raised in the House of Commons, so politicians seem to be taking it seriously.

View attachment 63470


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/15-minute_city

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neighbourhood_unit

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/feb/16/15-minute-city-planning-theory-conspiracists

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20230215-conspiracy-theories-on-15-minute-cities-flourish
I think its an orwellian nightmare. To much restriction of movement and loss of freedom . This whole thing has been planned for decades. My sister found local council documents laying all this out , back in the 90's. They talked about everyone being confined to a 3 mile radius of where they live. Within that zone , would be everything they would need , so no need to travel beyond . Sinister , if you ask me.
 
Would love to see how they’d plan to promote this here in the lake district.
Where a continuous battle between councils and corporate rages on in an effort to curtail the effects of pollution and available space.
Many of these small towns are too twisty and narrow to house so many vehicles, and accidents do happen.

Some area councils are pushing to make the town centres car free, providing parking spaces just on the outer edges, and since the towns here are so tiny, this would only entail walking a few yards from your vehicle. But no, local business won’t hear of it and complain that visitors would not come.

It certainly is an issue here, and in some places rather dangerous to walk around because the pavements are too narrow and packed, so many people are forced to walk in the road with heavy traffic.

Whilst the media/press continue to pit us all against each other, I can see this going nowhere. And sadly, I do think there is a healthy inbetween. But that would never do, lol, as healthy solutions won’t sell tabloids or get our blood pressure up!

Edit to add - I haven’t heard about this subject so can’t offer any useful opinions about it, but going off what I am reading here, I can certainly see why it might fuel a conspiracy-lite. The idea of becoming stuck in an economic/cultural ghetto strikes terror into my heart, but then that’s exactly how conspiracies reel us in, isn’t it?
 
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I think its an orwellian nightmare. To much restriction of movement and loss of freedom . This whole thing has been planned for decades. My sister found local council documents laying all this out , back in the 90's. They talked about everyone being confined to a 3 mile radius of where they live. Within that zone , would be everything they would need , so no need to travel beyond . Sinister , if you ask me.

Can you recall which council and did your sister keep any evidence?
 
Can you recall which council and did your sister keep any evidence?

Seems to me that the 1990's was the decade when local councils appear to have gone bonkers for granting permissions for out of town shopping developments and business parks - seems odd that they'd be planning to do precisely the opposite at the same time.
 
Can you recall which council and did your sister keep any evidence?

Can you recall which council and did your sister keep any evidence?
She lived in Keighley, West yorks , at the time, so whichever council Keighley is under. From memory , the document was called something like White Rose , or Yorkshire rose and it laid out future plans for everything anyone would need being within a 3 mile radius of where they lived . .I recall her saying it was odd , because she found them in the local library, in the section that keeps stuff like council policies and the like, and wanted to photocopy them , but it was late , and the library was about to close. She went back shortly afterwards but they were not there.
She was well known at the library , as she was often in there , researching , and so the staff really went out of their way to help her locate them. Someone remembered seeing them , but they just couldn't find them. Seems like they were moved and/ or shouldn't have been there in the first place.
 
It's a pity they didn't enact these plans back in the 90s. Instead vast numbers of local shops have closed down, forcing people to travel to out-of-town supermarkets and shopping centres. Back in the 50s there were small grocer shops on practically every street corner.
 
@kesavaross - This is a specific discussion about the UK's "15-Minute City Conspiracy." Please quit dragging in other conspiracy theories - pandemics, vaccines, lock downs, powercuts, food shortages. "Misery." "They."

We are all THEY. You are a part of the UK THEY. I am part of the US THEY. We all are part of the WORLD THEY.
I'm not interested in conspiracy theories, I'm interested in the actual truth and not the 'truth' as I'd like it to be. I used the word 'they' as I didn't want to use the words 'politicians' in order to keep politics out of the discussion. I am also not part of the UK 'they' who runs things. I'm definitely not part of the world 'they'.

The vaccines didn't/don't work - fact.
The lock downs didn't work - fact.
Power cuts are on the cards in the UK - fact. I've even had an email from my energy provider Powergen about it.
Food shortages are happening here - fact.
Even the thread tittle is wrong. 15 minute cities are starting to be implemented - fact.
Oxford City is installing ANPR cameras right now - fact.
 
I'm not interested in conspiracy theories, I'm interested in the actual truth and not the 'truth' as I'd like it to be. I used the word 'they' as I didn't want to use the words 'politicians' in order to keep politics out of the discussion. I am also not part of the UK 'they' who runs things. I'm definitely not part of the world 'they'.

The vaccines didn't/don't work - fact.
The lock downs didn't work - fact.
Power cuts are on the cards in the UK - fact. I've even had an email from my energy provider Powergen about it.
Food shortages are happening here - fact.
Even the thread tittle is wrong. 15 minute cities are starting to be implemented - fact.
Oxford City is installing ANPR cameras right now - fact.
Respectfully, I disagree with your list of facts. It doesn't matter. There are a variety of different conspiracy discussions - enough to keep many conspiracy advocates happy. I would ask you to please just keep to the conspiracy of the 15 minute cities when you are actively posting in the 15 minute city discussion.

If you wish to have a mega-conspiracy thread, you can start one (assuming there is not one out there already). Thank you for understanding.
 
It's a pity they didn't enact these plans back in the 90s. Instead vast numbers of local shops have closed down, forcing people to travel to out-of-town supermarkets and shopping centres. Back in the 50s there were small grocer shops on practically every street corner.
I was born in 1957. during the 60's about a 10 minute walk down the road was a parade of shop where all day to day items could be bought. Nearly all working class neighbour hoods around where I lived were like that. Then there was the high street for things like clothes, wallpaper and paint, DIY, etc which was about a 20 minute walk. The doctors surgery was a 10 minute walk away. Around where I lived there were no supermarkets. Supermarkets started to appear in that area in the late 60's and instantly many local shops starting going bust and shutting down'

In a way, that was already a type of 15 or 20 minute city.

If I want DIY stuff I have a 25 minute drive to a retail park. I have no choice. That retail park had a B & Q and a branch of Halfords. There would sometimes be minor traffic jams especially at weekends. Then the site was redeveloped and not long after a major new traffic scheme was built in the whole area. It now has a Costas, Aldi, Halfords, a huge craft store and B & Q. At weekends the traffic jams are horrendous as a result of both redevelopments.

My point is this. The very same 'They' who allowed those redevelopments are the very same 'They' who want to introduce 15 minute cities. 'They' create the problem then 'They' propose the solution but each time the solution is more restrictions for the majority. Where I live car usage is the lowest it's been for nearly 20 years yet the traffic jams are the worst that they have ever been. There's a pattern that to me is obvious and it's also quite obvious what the intended end result is going to be. A 15 minute city justified by the problems 'They' have created. We have a society that is run along very strange lines.
 
Respectfully, I disagree with your list of facts. It doesn't matter. There are a variety of different conspiracy discussions - enough to keep many conspiracy advocates happy. I would ask you to please just keep to the conspiracy of the 15 minute cities when you are actively posting in the 15 minute city discussion.

If you wish to have a mega-conspiracy thread, you can start one (assuming there is not one out there already). Thank you for understanding.
Thanks for your very thoughtfully worded reply. I don't know how you can dispute facts easily checkable. However, I'm not interested in conspiracy theories as such. I look into things and if there's any credence I tend to look deeper. If there's no tangible evidence or 'on the balance of probabilities' then I stop looking. What facts do you dispute?

The 15 minute conspiracy is not a conspiracy. From the WEF to governments world wide to local planning and Low Traffic Neighbourhoods, as they're called in the UK, it's all there in black and white, and it's happening. It's easily checked and easily verified. For some reason which is a mystery to me, people won't check it out yet still call it a conspiracy theory.

Edit: Paragraph added - this one. Recently in Davos in Switzerland there was a meeting of the Bilderberg Group. It's made up of top elite businessmen, the WEF, Gates, Davos, top bankers, politicians, etc. They decide how to shape the world in the foreseeable future. In the 90's that such meetings took place was called a conspiracy theory. Even Blaire said the same in Parliament. Come the early to mid 2000's, the evidence became so strong that it was admitted that the group does exist. Now it's out in the open. Even now though, in 2023, spoke persons say it's just a discussion. No decisions are made. Of course they're not. They just sit around all day for a few weeks and pass the time of day with all the security etc, and millions spent. They now even have their own wikipedia entry. Not bad for something that was once just a conspiracy theory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilderberg_meeting

Where I live (Brighton, UK) the local council are seeking to pedestrianise the entire town centre. There are plans to restrict access to local minor roads and reduce parking spaces yet further in and around the town centre. There is at the moment a major redevelopment of the main shopping drag which will take 18 months to complete despite the area dying on it's feet and the council bleating it has no spare money. At the last meeting of the 'something and something sustainability group' there was talk in the council assembly of setting up a working cross party group to look into the feasibility of turning Brighton into a 15 minute city. I listened to the whole meeting live on the net so I'm not imaging it. Every time anything to do with restricting the car is discussed in some way it ends up happening. It's almost as if they are just going though the motions for a plan that is already a done deal.

I think that there is more in the pipe line than we're being told. I'm not certain but past history seems to point to that.

I will though, as per your wishes, keep to just the 15 minute city 'conspiracy' despite many things being interlinked with other agendas.
 
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Edit: Paragraph added - this one. Recently in Davos in Switzerland there was a meeting of the Bilderberg Group. It's made up of top elite businessmen, the WEF, Gates, Davos, top bankers, politicians, etc. They decide how to shape the world in the foreseeable future. In the 90's that such meetings took place was called a conspiracy theory. Even Blaire said the same in Parliament. Come the early to mid 2000's, the evidence became so strong that it was admitted that the group does exist. Now it's out in the open. Even now though, in 2023, spoke persons say it's just a discussion. No decisions are made. Of course they're not. They just sit around all day for a few weeks and pass the time of day with all the security etc, and millions spent. They now even have their own wikipedia entry. Not bad for something that was once just a conspiracy theory...

As far as I'm aware, the fact of the Bilderberg Group/Meeting/whatever has never been denied. It's the contents of the meetings that have been at question. There's a guy local to me who blogs on illuminati stuff - he sees much darkness in the fact that the Bilderberg lot had a 'secret' meeting at the big, posh hotel in my home town in the late 50's. He has found out this secret because said hotel used to include it in a little brochure that covered their history. Fiendish.
 
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This is interesting, assuming it's fundamentally accurate account of the protest on the day, it looks just like a few extremists turned up and this was used as justification for tarring the actual people to be affected aka 'people who live in the area' as extremists of one sort or another. Someone working very hard to miscast the whole thing.

In The Flesh: The Oxford Anti-LTN March​

https://off-guardian.org/2023/02/23/in-the-flesh-the-oxford-anti-ltn-march/

Some protests are torrid affairs. Others can prove enlightening. The march last Saturday in the heart of Oxford was the latter.

Attendees rocked up nearly 2 hours before the scheduled meet, poised with their homemade placards, ready to dissent. It was truly an eclectic mix. Tweed jackets juxtaposed grey baggy trackies, edgy high-tops contrasted brown Chelsea boots, dreadlocks neighboured crew cuts, with all unified under one mission – to say no to Oxfordshire County Council’s creeping authoritarianism.

So let’s recap: Oxford Council proposes plans to restrict and regulate traffic in the city. They ignore locals’ obvious rejection. Planned rollouts of the scheme continue with the council investing in cameras to monitor and fine those in breach of the scheme – sounds quite authoritarian to me. Again, there was no mention of infringements on freedom. Nor was there any reference to the clear subversion of local democracy, which is more or less a facade nowadays.

Entirely absent from almost all coverage is the money that Oxfordshire County Council stands to make.

According to citizen journalist, Dulwich Clean Air, Southwark council issued 37,006 PCN fines to drivers going through 5 ANPR cameras (same as Oxford intends to use) in Dulwich’s LTN zone in only 65 working days in May 2021. That amounted to £4,810,780, which is £74,012 per day. Oxford has an estimated population of about half that of Southwark. That equates to roughly £37,000 in fines per day and £13,505,000 a year.
 
There's already a car for the 15 minute c̶o̶n̶s̶p̶i̶r̶a̶c̶y city.

https://heycar.co.uk/citroen/ami

"The Citroen Ami isn't a car. It's a quirky and affordable way of getting from A to B in marginally more comfort than on a moped. The Ami's 28mph top speed and 47-mile range does limit its market slightly, but it could still make a lot of sense as urban transport or a second vehicle.

Return of the bubble car!

Ami.jpg
 
I will though, as per your wishes, keep to just the 15 minute city 'conspiracy' despite many things being interlinked with other agendas.
Indeed, there is no reason to believe that they're not linked.
 
Where a continuous battle between councils and corporate rages on in an effort to curtail the effects of pollution and available space.
Many of these small towns are too twisty and narrow to house so many vehicles, and accidents do happen.

Some area councils are pushing to make the town centres car free, providing parking spaces just on the outer edges, and since the towns here are so tiny, this would only entail walking a few yards from your vehicle. But no, local business won’t hear of it and complain that visitors would not come.

It certainly is an issue here, and in some places rather dangerous to walk around because the pavements are too narrow and packed, so many people are forced to walk in the road with heavy traffic.
Coincidentally I watched an episode last night of the great 'Villages by the Sea'' series presented by Ben Robinson.
Christine Hamlyn of Clovelly in Devon (which still bans cars to this day) decided back in the early 1900s to build a huge car/coach park to keep those pesky vehicles out.
Even in 1936 there were nearly 50,000 cars turning up each year along with 3,600 charabancs.

 
elected to the Council repeatedly?

Low Traffic Neighbourhoods have been a hot potato in local elections for a while now, and as such have attracted a fair bit of attention during political campaigns. It would be genuinely interesting to see how transparently this idea was covered during elections in Oxford. If it was clear policy, and people were elected by voters who new that supporting such measures were part of their choices brief, then that would be kind of inconvenient for those who see it as a conspiracy.
 
Low Traffic Neighbourhoods have been a hot potato in local elections for a while now, and as such have attracted a fair bit of attention during political campaigns. It would be genuinely interesting to see how transparently this idea was covered during elections in Oxford. If it was clear policy, and people were elected by voters who new that supporting such measures were part of their choices brief, then that would be kind of inconvenient for those who see it as a conspiracy.
It is certainly the case in Oxford that public consultations showed the majority opposed the schemes, as noted in the article I linked to above.

Multiple consultations were then held late last year. The response from locals was overwhelming. 65% of them wholly disapproved. Only 7% endorsed the proposals in another consultation. With some notably citing, the schemes would make certain journeys up to 10 times longer. Acclaimed actress Florence Pugh’s father, who owns a shop in a LTN-designated area, revealed the council failed to consult local shop owners like him. He likewise expressed frustration over footfall decreases since lockdowns and how LTN’s were almost guaranteed to worsen the situation.
 
We call them 'the smart car'
No. Do not get your 'Smart Car' and the 'Ami' confused.
The 'Ami' has been specifically made to fall within the category of 'Voiture Sans Permis' - a classification of vehicle use which limits power and speed so that people who don't hold a full driving licence can get about.
It is used in France and other countries to enable students (and others who might have lost their licence for some reason, or haven't ever bothered to pass a full test) to travel, albeit in less capable vehicles.
So the 'Ami' is essentially what we in the UK would term a 'quadricycle' type of vehicle, whereas the 'Smart Car' is a full sized road going car, but on a small floorplan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadricycle_(EU_vehicle_classification)
 
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