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They might need some help with moving the furniture.
 
Indeed - all those ideas will go out the window once we all have our flying cars.
 
Some locations in London have a very low level of car ownership. Kensington and Chelsea 37%, Westminster 36%, Islington 26%, City of London 13%. Compared to the national average of 77%, these largely desirable locations have already adopted the 15 minute city concept, thanks to ubiquitous public transport.
 
Some locations in London have a very low level of car ownership. Kensington and Chelsea 37%, Westminster 36%, Islington 26%, City of London 13%. Compared to the national average of 77%, these largely desirable locations have already adopted the 15 minute city concept, thanks to ubiquitous public transport.
Also, another factor is the unaffordability of car ownership in London - nowhere safe to park it, and the cost of a mortgage or rent may leave very little money for a car.
 
I think the only way the idea can be made to work is if new cities are planned and built, with rail services fully integrated from the start.
Such cities would have to be self-contained inside huge buildings.
A bit like the megacities depicted in Judge Dredd, or 'The Line' that is currently being built in the Middle East.
 
And for me quality of life means not sitting in a traffic jam.
What about the people who live in properties on main roads?
What about them?
The idea of a "Rat Run" is nebulous.
If someone is so averse to traffic they should live in a cul de sac in a village or move to Sark

Not a whole lot can be done for those who live on main roads apart from ensuring that speed limits are enforced and that pedestrian crossings are respected by motorists. Those who live in residential areas also have rights and will continue to agitate for road calming measures.
 
The point is about choice. I currently live in a very rural location and am planning on moving to a city centre. That's due to a change in personal circumstances, I'm not being forced to. I always was a city boy, it was my wife who loved the great outdoors.

We once lived in a house on a main road, next to a commuter railway line, and at the end of an airport runway. It all becomes background noise, honestly.
 
I do hope it spreads. We must reduce our reliance on cars.
But I just can't see it ever happening.

The vehicle industry provides too many jobs for a start (just as crime does); how many people would be out of a job if there was no crime? Not just police officers, prison warders and lawyers, but all the 'backroom' guys as well; caterers, furniture makers, delivery drivers/ builders/electricians/mechanics/painters/social workers/security guards/cleaners.... It's the same with the motor industry.

And in any case, they're still churning out Bentleys, Ferraris, Jaguars and Maseratis every week. Those people that can afford them aren't going to give up their cars and the majority of the 'ordinary' people will say 'so why should I?''.

Add on the woeful public transport system we have here (outside of the cities) and most people simply can't do it, even if they want to.

An admirable thing to hope for some might say, but idealist in the extreme imo.
 
Add on the woeful public transport system we have here (outside of the cities) and most people simply can't do it, even if they want to.
An admirable thing to hope for some might say, but idealist in the extreme imo.
Any student of the history of transport can point to several radical changes in the way we travel around the country, from stagecoaches to canals, railways, buses, trams and cars. This process will continue to produce change, and we shouldn't imagine that the current phase is the final stage in this process. Electric cars, autonomous light railways and self-driving personal vehicles, personal rapid transport systems will all change the way we get around; in addition, high-bandwidth information technology will reduce the necessity for people to travel ridiculous distances to find work. We can also communicate face to face with people around the world- one useful lesson of the lockdown is that we can have very successful social, educational and work interactions on the net. This will become increasingly important in the century to come.

Or it could all go to shit, if we let the conspiracy theorists get their way.
 
Any student of the history of transport can point to several radical changes in the way we travel around the country, from stagecoaches to canals, railways, buses, trams and cars. This process will continue to produce change, and we shouldn't imagine that the current phase is the final stage in this process. Electric cars, autonomous light railways and self-driving personal vehicles, personal rapid transport systems will all change the way we get around; in addition, high-bandwidth information technology will reduce the necessity for people to travel ridiculous distances to find work. We can also communicate face to face with people around the world- one useful lesson of the lockdown is that we can have very successful social, educational and work interactions on the net. This will become increasingly important in the century to come.

Or it could all go to shit, if we let the conspiracy theorists get their way.
It's all going to shit. Sorry. That's the way life works.
 
…one useful lesson of the lockdown is that we can have very successful social, educational and work interactions on the net.

No.

The lesson was that, if under house arrest, we could “duct tape and baling twine” together a system that sort of worked, much of the time.

We’ll see the effects of two wasted years more and more as time passes.

maximus otter
 
high-bandwidth information technology will reduce the necessity for people to travel ridiculous distances to find work. We can also communicate face to face with people around the world- one useful lesson of the lockdown is that we can have very successful social, educational and work interactions on the net.
We can indeed, but still, a lot of companies are now telling staff to get back to the office as it's considered 'more productive'.
 
Well, they need to get a wiggle on. The amount of empty office space in London is at a record high, and no-one wants to take on the overheads any more. Square kilometres of new office space in Docklands has never been used, nor will it ever be, unless they convert it to accommodation.
 
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Any student of the history of transport can point to several radical changes in the way we travel around the country, from stagecoaches to canals, railways, buses, trams and cars. This process will continue to produce change, and we shouldn't imagine that the current phase is the final stage in this process. Electric cars, autonomous light railways and self-driving personal vehicles, personal rapid transport systems will all change the way we get around; in addition, high-bandwidth information technology will reduce the necessity for people to travel ridiculous distances to find work. We can also communicate face to face with people around the world- one useful lesson of the lockdown is that we can have very successful social, educational and work interactions on the net. This will become increasingly important in the century to come.
I think you might secretly be Isaac Asimov.
That was his idea of a heavenly utopia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Caves_of_Steel
 
I think that his second novel in that series, The Naked Sun, is more relevant here. He imagined a society where everyone stays at home and they only interact with each other in virtual meetings.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Naked_Sun

We may need to move to something like this, especially if there are more pandemics. Which is entirely possible. The next one might be the product of genetic warfare.
 
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I think that his second novel in that series, The Naked Sun, is more relevant here. He imagined a society where everyone stays at home and they only interact with each other in virtual meetings.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Naked_Sun

We may need to move to something like this, especially if there are more pandemics. Which is entirely possible. The next one might be the product of genetic warfare.
Well at least it will reduce the population.
 
15-Minute Cities Are ‘Complete Impoverishment and Enslavement of All the People’: EU Lawmaker.
(...) According to Anderson, such cities are the beginning of tighter government control of people. The administration can exert control by deciding “you are no longer allowed to leave your 15-minute immediate area. They don’t have to fence it in or anything. It will be done via digital ID,” she said.
"(...)Make no mistake, it’s not about your convenience. It’s not that they want you to be able to have all of these places that you need to get to close by. It’s not about saving the planet either,” Anderson said.
(...)
When asked whether this was the result of some kind of global coordination, Anderson replied, “Absolutely.”
“That is actually the scariest part of all of this. Had it only been two or three countries going rogue, we would have had the hopes another country would step in and put a stop to it,” she said.
“They were in lockstep with all of this. They literally read from the same script, repeating the same lines, ‘Build back better, safe and effective.’ Every single Western democracy was pretty much doing the same thing.”

https://www.theepochtimes.com/15-mi...nd-enslavement-of-all-the-people_5231593.html
 
Another view on 15 minute cities.

Conspiracy theorist critics of the 15-minute city concept have fundamentally misunderstood what it means, one of Ireland's leading climate scientists has said.

Maynooth University professor of geography and climate change Peter Thorne said critics suggesting people would be "prisoners" within such a city are absurdly wrong, and that it means having "nice and livable environments for individuals" to enjoy a full life locally.

The 15-minute city concept has become a new target of conspiracy theorists, who suggest it is an international socialist plot designed to keep people herded in closely so that Government authorities can keep them under surveillance.

In reality, it means sustainable community growth that would allow people to be able to work, socialise, go to school, access healthcare, and exercise within a 15-minute walk, cycle, or bus and train journey from their homes.

We need to get away from single detached houses out in the country, miles from services, that lock in high energy intensity. Moving forward, we need more compact developments that enable low-carbon, high-quality lifestyles.

"Hopefully we can do better than concrete monstrosities that might become sink estates. Long gone are those days. We have the capability to create nice, livable environments for individuals that allow them to do everything that they need. The 15-minute city has been lambasted, ticking off some people chronically. We need more things that are close but that does not mean you are a prisoner within a 15-minute walk, cycle, or public transport of your home. I would love to not have a 45-minute commute on a regular basis."

There are also "obvious and glaring" policy gaps in the planning system that are stifling progress in renewable energy targets, Prof Thorne said.

"The planning system is at the heart of meeting our legislative carbon budgets, particularly for electricity, heat, and transport. There are gaps that need to be addressed quickly to give greater local support, in particular for meeting our renewable energy targets, but also for compact growth targets," he said.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41136115.html
 
We need to get away from single detached houses out in the country
No we don't.
If that's how one wants to live and has the money for it, why try to prevent it?
I figure that Prof Thorne is another one of those people who either likes to tell other people what to do, or is cheesed off that his own living standards are some cramped 2 bed flat and want's everyone else to have to live in similar conditions, or both.
 
No we don't.
If that's how one wants to live and has the money for it, why try to prevent it?
I figure that Prof Thorne is another one of those people who either likes to tell other people what to do, or is cheesed off that his own living standards are some cramped 2 bed flat and want's everyone else to have to live in similar conditions, or both
 
Well, they need to get a wiggle on. The amount of empty office space in London is at a record high, and no-one wants to take on the overheads any more. Square kilometres of new office space in Docklands has never been used, nor will it ever be, unless they convert it to accommodation.
It most certainly is, the world of work has changed for ever most office based workers are working some form of hybrid working pattern or like myself work from home all of the time our old office is just somewhere to drop into if we want (I don't really see the need)

What many people don't understand is the the rollout of the virtual office desktop, let me explain a few years back you could work from home but access to corporate networks was clunky to say the least, and lots of specialist software did not work at all, so you had to be physically connected to the network in the same building as the server, that's all changed I start up my laptop and every application I need works like i am physically in the office, even my landline (through teams) it's revolutionized home working and it all started before the pandemic
 
No we don't.
If that's how one wants to live and has the money for it, why try to prevent it?
I figure that Prof Thorne is another one of those people who either likes to tell other people what to do, or is cheesed off that his own living standards are some cramped 2 bed flat and want's everyone else to have to live in similar conditions, or both.
Where are they going to grow the food for this new Utopia? Or manage the reservoirs? Or dig the Iron ore, stone, etc. Will that all be done by robots or will someone have to travel more than 15 minutes to get there and do the work? Or are we talking Soylent Green here?
And what about all the disaffected little scrotes who whatever facilities they have will want to destroy everything? Well at least they won't have as far to go.
It's a nice idea, if there really is no other motive, but I'd put it in the category of high rise housing, centres of excellence and hubs.
 
It most certainly is, the world of work has changed for ever most office based workers are working some form of hybrid working pattern or like myself work from home all of the time our old office is just somewhere to drop into if we want (I don't really see the need)

What many people don't understand is the the rollout of the virtual office desktop, let me explain a few years back you could work from home but access to corporate networks was clunky to say the least, and lots of specialist software did not work at all, so you had to be physically connected to the network in the same building as the server, that's all changed I start up my laptop and every application I need works like i am physically in the office, even my landline (through teams) it's revolutionized home working and it all started before the pandemic
But in many cases not thought out very well from the customer's point of view. When I do get through to someone they've no one to ask if anything goes off script and I've several times been unable to hear them because of screaming children, barking dogs, TVs etc.
 
My productivity has gone up over 700% over the last 5 years according to my annual stats with no loss of quality - I have the perfect job for it. It's your classic back office job and I am the authority rather than the front line worker so no need to consult others when staff call me with a particularly gnarly and interesting query. I started working from the home in the pandemic and never stopped. I have almost completely stopped commuting 2 hours each way into the office and only go in for special face to face meetings - the last time was early December.

It means next time I move I will be able to consider areas I can afford more easily closer to where I grew up, which means I could finally move away from the London area. This will become more doable as internet speeds across the country improve (especially if 4G/5G internet overtakes fibre in rural areas) and as a non-driver (but maybe that could change) I will be keeping an eye on developments for innovative solutions. Up until now I have used public transport (a massive weakness where I am interested in and I shall be limited in where I can move), commissioned services such as removal firms and my beloved old lady shopping bag on shanks pony as my main travel and carriage options. I don't think the options are quite there at the moment but things are changing.
 
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