Reincarnation? The Case Of Carl Edon

[carole]

Re: Roy Hudd

The FT story is interesting and spooky. I was wondering if there would've been people talking about the planes going down in the area that he could've picked up on as a child?

By the time Carl was born, I should think the war was a fairly distant memory to most people, and not talked about often, if at all.

Carole

 

[carole]

I find it most frustrating that we cna't see any of the pictures Carl drew as a child . . .

The Luftwaffe eagle insignia is different to the one seen on German army uniforms, being less angular in design and 'flying'.

Carole

 

[rynner2]

I've had a look through the press cuttings Carole sent me, and although they fill out some of the details of the crash and the war in general in the NE they don't add much to the reincarnation story we already have, except that Rudolf Matern is described as the bomb-aimer, which perhaps argues against my idea that Heinrich Richter occupied the nose turret, and Carl's memories of 'bomb aiming'.

On the other hand, that turret had the largest gun, so it would be the logical place for the 'turret gunner' to be.

Other info:
The ballon was nick-named Annie by its crew (one of whom attended the '98 burial). The balloon cable took off most of the starboard wing of the Dornier.

The exploding Verey shells caused a macabre firework display after the crash, as well as helping the wreckage to burn. An RAF officer recovered three bodies at the time.

During the '97 excavation a hand wearing a ring was found. The ring bore the initials PM, which seemed to link it to Hans Maneke, who at the time was believed to be the only missing crew member.

(Carole, I got 7 emails from you - is that how many you sent?)

 

[FraterLibre]

Good Book

While the book The Airmen Who Would Not Die by John G. Fuller is not about reincarnation, it is about the apparent survival of the personality after death, and communication with the living, and it concerns air crashes and information pieced together from many unrelated sources that added up to something no one knew that was then proven.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Good Book

The Airmen Who Would Not Die by John G. Fuller

Old Pilots never die, they just...(insert amusing phrase here)

 

[carole]

It's cases like these which, for me tip the balance in favour of reincarnation . . .

Has anyone on this board ever tried hypnotic regression and been taken back to a past 'life'? That's something I'd quite like to try.

Carole

 

[blessmycottonsocks]

To kill some time this lunchtime, I popped into the library and, as usual, gravitated towards the Fortean section. I browsed a book, which included the Carl Edon case in some detail.
If the facts of the case are as described, then it certainly is compelling.
The author prefixed the account with some details of experiments into epigenetics (inherited memories), which suggest that the offspring of mice, even two generations removed, can "remember" their grandparents having been trained to associate pain (mild electric shock) with a visual stimulus.
Not sure how relevant this is, given that Carl Edon wasn't (AFAIK) related to the wartime German aircrew.
Fascinating story nonetheless.

 

[sherbetbizarre]

To kill some time this lunchtime, I popped into the library and, as usual, gravitated towards the Fortean section. I browsed a book, which included the Carl Edon case in some detail.
If the facts of the case are as described, then it certainly is compelling.
The author prefixed the account with some details of experiments into epigenetics (inherited memories), which suggest that the offspring of mice, even two generations removed, can "remember" their grandparents having been trained to associate pain (mild electric shock) with a visual stimulus.
Not sure how relevant this is, given that Carl Edon wasn't (AFAIK) related to the wartime German aircrew.
Fascinating story nonetheless.

Yeah, Interesting story, with a tragic end...

https://paranormalglobe.com/2018/01...he-most-compelling-evidence-of-reincarnation/

 

[bob61]

Fortean Times arrived today (hooray!) and it contains a really good reincarnation story. Since this subject has not been dealt with much on this board it seems worth starting a thread on it.

The FT story concerns Carl Edon of Middlesbrough, who claimed from childhood that he had been a WWII German airman killed in a crash in 1942. A recently discovered photo of turret gunner Heinrich Richter certainly closely resembles Edon, and the wreckage of the Dornier was excavated in 1997. This revealed that Richter had lost a leg in the crash, as Edon had always claimed.

Bizzarely, the crash site is not far from where Carl Edon was stabbed to death in 1995 at the age of 22. (Richter died aged 24.)

This seems to be one of the best authenticated cases of reincarnation that I've heard of. Any locals from that area have more details? I'm off to check with Google for anything online.... and found nothing about this case.

https://paranormalglobe.com/2018/01/30/the-story-of-carl-edon-the-most-compelling-evidence-of-reincarnation/

 

[bob61]

Good Book

While the book The Airmen Who Would Not Die by John G. Fuller is not about reincarnation, it is about the apparent survival of the personality after death, and communication with the living, and it concerns air crashes and information pieced together from many unrelated sources that added up to something no one knew that was then proven.

i might try & pick up a copy , thanks

 

[AgProv]

The evidence is in the child's stories, which were then corroborated by the excavation of the crash.

The places where the young men died being so close could be coincidence, as could the similarities in their appearance, but at some stage you have to ask, when does a string of coincidences amount to something more?

What I am saying is that the reincarnation hypothesis is the simplest explanation for all these facts and 'coincidences'.

Yes, the leg was lost in the crash - read the links given earlier by Carole.

On another website I found this comment on the Harrison's book:

C.E. claims he was a German pilot and walks around goose-stepping; his mother comments on his strange eyes.

(The initials fit Carl Edon, although the German was a gunner, not a pilot. Does anyone have this book - it would be fascinating to read exactly what was written about the child.)

In both British and American aircrew training, recruits who washed out as pilots or c o pilots were " recycled" and assigned to other aircrew roles. This applied even if they were competent pilots: if the quota for pilots in that recruit I take had been filled, the surplus could well be reassigned as navigators, bomb-aimers or gunners. C E might recall the pilot training part?

 

[maximus otter]

Fortean Times arrived today (hooray!) and it contains a really good reincarnation story. Since this subject has not been dealt with much on this board it seems worth starting a thread on it.

The FT story concerns Carl Edon of Middlesbrough, who claimed from childhood that he had been a WWII German airman killed in a crash in 1942. A recently discovered photo of turret gunner Heinrich Richter certainly closely resembles Edon, and the wreckage of the Dornier was excavated in 1997. This revealed that Richter had lost a leg in the crash, as Edon had always claimed.

Bizzarely, the crash site is not far from where Carl Edon was stabbed to death in 1995 at the age of 22. (Richter died aged 24.)

This seems to be one of the best authenticated cases of reincarnation that I've heard of. Any locals from that area have more details? I'm off to check with Google for anything online.... and found nothing about this case.

The account of the alleged reincarnation from the local Gazette:

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/local-news/uncanny-case-carl-edon-3857619

More info about the crash of the Dornier in which Oberfeldwebel Heinrich Richter died:

https://www.yorkshire-aircraft.co.uk/aircraft/yorkshire/york42/u5hs.html

Obfw. Richter's headstone:

Local man Bill Norman has written a book about this one Luftwaffe aircraft:

South Bank Dornier: South Bank Cleveland, 15 January 1942

maximus otter

 

[Paul_Exeter]

Fascinating and tragic case and not easy to dismiss aa a child's fantasy. A good summary here:

https://psi-encyclopedia.spr.ac.uk/articles/carl-edon-reincarnation-case#Later_Development

One thing I did notice from that video he has his mother's nose, in fact she looks quite German herself, so did she have Germanic roots as so many of us British do...? Also I know families with male children who have starkly differing hair and eye colours. One family I know the eldest boy has dad's light green eyes and fair hair whereas the middle boy has mum's almost jet black hair and his eyes are so dark green they often appear black. Mum and dad state they had no interest in WW2, however has anyone asked if there was an uncle or grandfather in the picture?

WW2 was certainly talked about in the playground of our 1970s infant school (Carl was born in 1972) and my brother used to get the war comic 'Victor':

So did he have access to this or a similar magazine, perhaps a friend's house?

That his parents went public about his recollections when he was essentially just starting school is interesting in itself. We know from our own childhoods how young children seize on anything that makes a fellow pupil different or odd, so surely they would have known there was a good chance he would get bullied?

Not that doesn't begin to answer all the coincidences and parallels. Has anyone been able to determine if there was a building at the site of the bomber crash in 1942...?

 

[Ronnie Jersey]

Fascinating and tragic case and not easy to dismiss aa a child's fantasy. A good summary here:

https://psi-encyclopedia.spr.ac.uk/articles/carl-edon-reincarnation-case#Later_Development

One thing I did notice is that from that video he has his mother's nose, in fact she looks quite German herself, so did she have Germanic roots as so many of us British do...? Also I know families with male children who have starkly differing hair and eye colours. One family I know the eldest boy has dad's light green eyes and fair hair whereas the middle boy has mum's almost jet black hair and his eyes are so dark green they often appear black. Also, mum and dad state they had no interest in WW2, however has any asked if there was an uncle or grandfather in the picture?

WW2 was certainly talked about in the playground of our 1970s primary school (Carl was born in 1972) and my brother used to get the war comic 'Victor':

View attachment 56735
So did he have access to this or a similar magazine, perhaps a friend's house?

That his parents went public about his recollections when he was essentially just starting school is interesting in itself. We know from our own childhoods how young children seize on anything that makes a fellow pupil different or odd, so surely they would have known there was a good chance he would get bullied?

Not that doesn't begin to answer all the coincidences and parallels. Has anyone been able to determine if there was a building at the site of the bomber crash in 1942...?

Very interesting and compelling case, but did they ever contact the dead man's fiancee?
She might have been able to confirm more details.

 

[Paul_Exeter]

Very interesting and compelling case, but did they ever contact the dead man's fiancee?
She might have been able to confirm more details.

It is.

But there some some inconsistencies or perhaps people have tried too hard to find parallels. For example, Carl clearly describes his plane crashing through the large window of a (presumably) large building, but in relation to the crash wreckage found the narrative and photo is of the plane hitting the ground nose first:

https://www.yorkshire-aircraft.co.uk/aircraft/yorkshire/york42/u5hs.html

Furthermore, It was a Dornier that crashed and not the Messerschmitt 110 that Carl talked of and drew

Also, it has to be be said that a lot of German planes were shot down/crashed on British soil during WW2:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...kages-littering-UK-fields-Battle-Britain.html

Railways in particular were targeted by bombers, so if you are near a strategic city and a railway there is a good chance a German plane was shot down or crashed nearby.

So what are we left with if the planes and the manner of their respective crashes are different? The sketches Carl made as a child have, we are told, all vanished. Carl liked sausages, but then don't most children? Carl did not ever mention a railway line yet the Dornier claimed to be 'his' was strewn across the tracks. It is quite possible the Nazi on the tv didn't have his insignia on the wrong side of his body but rather they saw a mirror image on the screen. The details about the Messerschmitt Carl talked about could have been seen by him in a book or a comic. Suddenly there is not much meat on the reincarnation bone...

 

[Ronnie Jersey]

It is.

But there some some inconsistencies or perhaps people have tried too hard to find parallels. For example, Carl clearly describes his plane crashing through the large window of a (presumably) large building, but in relation to the crash wreckage found the narrative and photo is of the plane hitting the ground nose first:

https://www.yorkshire-aircraft.co.uk/aircraft/yorkshire/york42/u5hs.html

Furthermore, It was a Dornier that crashed and not the Messerschmitt 110 that Carl talked of and drew

Also, it has to be be said that a lot of German planes were shot down/crashed on British soil during WW2:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...kages-littering-UK-fields-Battle-Britain.html

Railways in particular were targeted by bombers, so if you are near a strategic city and a railway there is a good chance a German plane was shot down or crashed nearby.

So what are we left with if the planes and the manner of their respective crashes are different? The sketches Carl made as a child have, we are told, all vanished. Carl liked sausages, but then don't most children? Carl did not ever mention a railway line yet the Dornier claimed to be 'his' was strewn across the tracks. It is quite possible the Nazi on the tv didn't have his insignia on the wrong side of his body but rather they saw a mirror image on the screen. The details about the Messerschmitt Carl talked about could have been seen by him in a book or a comic. Suddenly there is not much meat on the reincarnation bone...

But then what was he speaking about, as a little boy? Seemed like actual memories.
And what did Carl Edon himself think, was he certain that he was a reincarnation of someone from that time?
His feelings would be important.
And he certainly bears an amazing resemblance to that deceased man!

 

[Ronnie Jersey]

It is.

But there some some inconsistencies or perhaps people have tried too hard to find parallels. For example, Carl clearly describes his plane crashing through the large window of a (presumably) large building, but in relation to the crash wreckage found the narrative and photo is of the plane hitting the ground nose first:

https://www.yorkshire-aircraft.co.uk/aircraft/yorkshire/york42/u5hs.html

Furthermore, It was a Dornier that crashed and not the Messerschmitt 110 that Carl talked of and drew

Also, it has to be be said that a lot of German planes were shot down/crashed on British soil during WW2:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...kages-littering-UK-fields-Battle-Britain.html

Railways in particular were targeted by bombers, so if you are near a strategic city and a railway there is a good chance a German plane was shot down or crashed nearby.

So what are we left with if the planes and the manner of their respective crashes are different? The sketches Carl made as a child have, we are told, all vanished. Carl liked sausages, but then don't most children? Carl did not ever mention a railway line yet the Dornier claimed to be 'his' was strewn across the tracks. It is quite possible the Nazi on the tv didn't have his insignia on the wrong side of his body but rather they saw a mirror image on the screen. The details about the Messerschmitt Carl talked about could have been seen by him in a book or a comic. Suddenly there is not much meat on the reincarnation bone...

But here is another article on Carl Edon, whose mother firmly believed he was the reincarnation of this Heinrich. That is a bit unnerving, that his mother had that belief.
And Carl was murdered within feet from where Heinrich was killed in the plane crash in 1942!

https://exemplore.com/paranormal/The-Reincarnation-Of-Carl-Edon-And-His-Nazi-Airman-Past

 

[Paul_Exeter]

But here is another article on Carl Edon, whose mother firmly believed he was the reincarnation of this Heinrich. That is a bit unnerving, that his mother had that belief.
And Carl was murdered within feet from where Heinrich was killed in the plane crash in 1942!

https://exemplore.com/paranormal/The-Reincarnation-Of-Carl-Edon-And-His-Nazi-Airman-Past

Another discrepancy:

“Other possible identities were suggested by a discovery made during pipeline excavations in Middlesborough in 1997. On 15 January 1942, a German Dornier 217E bomber had crashed near the town after hitting a balloon cable. The bodies of three of its crew, pilot Joachim Lehnis, bombardier Heinrich Richter and navigator Rudolph Matern, were found and buried shortly thereafter. The 1997 digging revealed the plane wreckage and the remains of the fourth crewman, radio operator Hans Maneke.

James and Valerie Edon became convinced that Carl had been the reincarnation of either Lehnis, the pilot, or Richter, whose corpse was found with one leg severed (though Stevenson later determined that the corpse with the severed leg was actually Maneke’s, as determined by insignia found with it).”

Carl apparently resembled Richter and carried the prominent birthmark on his leg that matched tRichter’s severed leg. Carl also talked in detail about losing his leg in the crash, right? Except it wasn’t Richter with the severed leg is was Manake and to be blunt, Carl can’t have closely resembled the whole crew, not all Germans looked the same.

So not only do we have the wrong plane, we also seemingly have the wrong pilot.

Then there is the matter of the crash site:

“….the Dornier, damaged by anti-aircraft fire before hitting a barrage balloon, was discovered in 1997 buried off Tilbury Road - only a few hundred yards from the spot where Carl was stabbed to death two years earlier.”

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/local-news/uncanny-case-carl-edon-3857619

So with respect, not a few feet but rather a few hundred yards, so perhaps three to five hundred feet away? Wrong plane, wrong pilot, wrong manner of crash, crash site not as close as claimed, all the sketches missing…. This young boy may well have had past life memories but the supposed similarities and parallels have been exaggerated. Of course, the parents were grieving after his terrible death and so it’s understandable they tried so hard to fit square pegs into round holes.

https://psi-encyclopedia.spr.ac.uk/articles/carl-edon-reincarnation-case#Later_Development

 

[Paul_Exeter]

Incidentally, , here is a photo of the bf 100 cockpit:

I think a skilled artist would find it hard going to draw that, never mind a five year old boy, so what exactly wad it that Carl drew, a replica of this or some random round dials and a lever or two? Sorry to be so cynical, but we don’t have the actual sketches.

A detailed manual here:

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/me110/AM_Flying_Instructions_Me110.pdf

Carl claimed to be the pilot but also dropping the bombs using the bomb “button”, however the manual talks of a red bomb lever (another discrepancy we are expected to gloss over).

From the post above by Carole:

“The Edons are still wondering why they felt compelled to call their little boy by the name of Carl. “It is a most incredible thing,” says Valerie, “Because we decided to call him Carl not knowing that he would have any connections with Germany.””

Sorry, but this is straw-clutching of the highest order and ‘Carl’ is not an uncommon name in the UK