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Doctor Who [Spoilers]

So the Doc can marry people now? I think Nani's claim to be the first woman married in Pakistan fails to hold water.

Anyway, apart from that, surprised to see DW tackle Islamic extremism, but maybe I shouldn't be, as the Doc has fought extremists in many forms down the years. Aliens felt a bit superfluous, maybe they should have gone for a straightforward historical like The Highlanders, and I'd have preferred some accents (or some different accents), but for the first non-Chibnall episode this series, not bad.

Next week: Doctor Who vs the Amazon warehouse! I think.
 
Considering there have been decades of programmes predominantly featuring straight, white and male characters, as far as I'm concerned a show that foregrounds other points of humanity's vast spectrum is to be applauded. Yes, I have a few concerns about the new direction, but they're minor, and its delightful diversity is certainly not one of them!

Plenty of promise thus far, and I look forward to watching this DW grow.
 
The aliens looked suitably gnarly, I'll grant you. Vaguely Lovecraftian monsters, orders of magnitude better than last week's Pikachu clone.

The Doctor though isn't growing into the role at all and is fast becoming a mere caricature.
1) Pull a face
2) Make a Bubble/Victoria Wood style quip
3) Strike an heroic pose whilst aiming the sonic screwdriver.
4) Rinse and repeat.

Oh and, once an episode, throw in some name-dropping (it was Einstein last episode).
 
Anyway, apart from that, surprised to see DW tackle Islamic extremism
I am not sure how it tackled Islamic extremism? Manish was a Hindu. His beef (pardon the pun) was with Prem marrying a Muslim. Although I might have missed something.

The Doctor though isn't growing into the role at all and is fast becoming a mere caricature.
I know what you mean in this episode although I have mostly been enjoying her performance. I have heard that TV crews often film a later episode first so that by the time they film the first episode that you see, the characters are more settled in the role. Maybe this was the first one filmed?

Overall I quite enjoyed it and it wasn't as preachy as I feared it would be. I liked the way the Doctor dealt with the complaint about "you lot tearing apart our country" by announcing that she would inform Lord Mountbatten next time she saw him. Nicely done.
 
"
1) Pull a face
2) Make a Bubble/Victoria Wood style quip
3) Strike an heroic pose whilst aiming the sonic screwdriver.
4) Rinse and repeat."

Does she deliver vital plot points at break neck speed? If so, we have a Tennant clone.
 
I am not sure how it tackled Islamic extremism? Manish was a Hindu. His beef (pardon the pun) was with Prem marrying a Muslim. Although I might have missed something.

Er, let's call it religious extremism!

How many viewers across the world didn't know a million people died in the partition before yesterday? DW seems to be going back to its roots with these historicals.
 
I am not sure how it tackled Islamic extremism? Manish was a Hindu. His beef (pardon the pun) was with Prem marrying a Muslim. Although I might have missed something.


I know what you mean in this episode although I have mostly been enjoying her performance. I have heard that TV crews often film a later episode first so that by the time they film the first episode that you see, the characters are more settled in the role. Maybe this was the first one filmed?

Overall I quite enjoyed it and it wasn't as preachy as I feared it would be. I liked the way the Doctor dealt with the complaint about "you lot tearing apart our country" by announcing that she would inform Lord Mountbatten next time she saw him. Nicely done.

Just been perusing some of the reviews over at the BBC site and the following probably explains a lot:

”After the era of Steven Moffat’s Doctor Who, which featured often high-concept, complicated plots, showrunner Chris Chibnall has made it clear he’s keen for the show to be more easily accessible family viewing, and for it to educate children in the way it was originally intended to”

So brace yourselves for more simplistic storylines and some very specific "education" .

I agree with you that it didn't tackle islamic extremism. The jibe against Mountbatten, whose partition plan was an attempt to stop the escalating sectarian violence, seemed cheap and misguided too.

A forthcoming DW episode in this series apparently features The Doctor saving a woman accused of witchcraft from being burned at the stake.
While The Doctor was in Pakistan, couldn't she have jumped forward a few years and foiled some jihadi plots or maybe saved an innocent Christian woman from a sentence of death for "blasphemy" ?
But I suppose that sort of topicality isn't on the BBC's agenda. Looks like the degree of education in DW is going to be rather select and simplistic!
 
Well rather him than All British People for All Time!


Okay fair enough. ;)

Mountbatten's statement is available here in its entirety.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/...oad-to-partition/mountbatten-radio-broadcast/

It is clear that he desperately wanted to hand over control of the entire country to a single Indian government of national unity (which was also Ghandi's wish). The extent of the sectarian violence - chiefly Muslims v Hindus, was so horrendous though that he rushed a partition plan through. And the violence worsened before finally settling into an uneasy peace. Pakistan and India are both nuclear states and the world holds its breath when they square up to each other every few years.
But all that history is probably too nuanced for DW and it's easier just to blame Mountbatten for all the animosity.
 
Mountbatten's statement is available here in its entirety.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/...oad-to-partition/mountbatten-radio-broadcast/

It is clear that he desperately wanted to hand over control of the entire country to a single Indian government of national unity (which was also Ghandi's wish). The extent of the sectarian violence - chiefly Muslims v Hindus, was so horrendous though that he rushed a partition plan through. And the violence worsened before finally settling into an uneasy peace. Pakistan and India are both nuclear states and the world holds its breath when they square up to each other every few years.
But all that history is probably too nuanced for DW and it's easier just to blame Mountbatten for all the animosity.

I've read Wavell's diaries (he was the penultimate viceroy) and while Churchill and Attlee were not sufficiently focused on the subject (the former had no love for the country and the latter wanted shot of the problem), the British administration in the India wrestled endlessly with irrational intransigence and factionalism on all sides: there was almost no issue, however trivial, over which they couldn't bicker.
 
Watch this with my daughter, neither of us thought it was great episode but, but I did learn about partition!

so the education bit worked. Even beginning to enjoy Bradley Walsh.
 
Did I see Lee Mack in a trailer for the next episode ? - hopefully that will bring some gravitas to the proceedings. Perhaps his character could be used to shine a much needed spotlight on the difficulties associated with Meniere's Disease or Tourette's
 
Watch this with my daughter, neither of us thought it was great episode but, but I did learn about partition!

so the education bit worked. Even beginning to enjoy Bradley Walsh.

Bradley's been great, they have him doing the comedy and the emotional stuff and he's been just as good at either. Good sport for letting them joke about his singing too (maybe we could have him sing the theme tune one week).
 
Considering there have been decades of programmes predominantly featuring straight, white and male characters, as far as I'm concerned a show that foregrounds other points of humanity's vast spectrum is to be applauded. Y

That post took me back to my FA referee's training, almost 20 years ago.
If a referee realises he's made a misjudgment in say awarding a penalty to one team which, with hindsight, he doesn't believe he should have given, we were taught that the cardinal sin is to then attempt to compensate by making incorrect decisions in favour of the other side.
 
That post took me back to my FA referee's training, almost 20 years ago.
If a referee realises he's made a misjudgment in say awarding a penalty to one team which, with hindsight, he doesn't believe he should have given, we were taught that the cardinal sin is to then attempt to compensate by making incorrect decisions in favour of the other side.

Far from convinced that's an accurate, or even terribly appropriate, analogy. It could even come across as a little disingenuous. To take such issue with any show, let alone one with such a high profile, foregrounding variants of human other than the thus far dominant ones, something sorely needed and overdue, says far more about you than the programme.

I've always found the complaint that a given show doesn't 'reflect reality' in its ratios of races and genders and so forth just as disingenuous - it's a show, it doesn't have to conform to 'reality', or any given perception of it, just its own rules. DW's rules seem to be variety and diversity, and I applaud that wholeheartedly.

Life's a kaleidoscope - celebrate it.
 
A funny sort of story I was quite enjoying it while it was on, but the jarring music over the end credits (PLEASE don't let that be a precedent for future episodes!) made me think about what I'd just seen - a totally non-sci-fi story in which the Doctor & co, along with the aliens, played no important role and were mere observers to historical events. I am reminded of the gag in the Big Bang Theory concerning Raiders of the Lost Ark...*

I get what Chris Chibnall is saying - that the recent years have seen storylines so complicated that children (and even adults) might struggle to follow what's going on, and that it's time for something a little simpler, a bit more educational. I do think, though, that he could do this while still making a fantasy/sci-fi programme. Which it definitely wasn't this week.

Another issue I have is that the Tardis can now go anywhere with perfect accuracy, so it's becoming like the Famous Five or Mr Benn. A bit of adventure and then back to Sheffield in time for tea with Nan!

*For those not in the know, one of the characters in TBBT pointed out to another that the character of Indiana Jones actually had no effect whatsoever on the plot of Raiders, despite supposedly being the hero. Watch it and you'll see!
 
. A bit of adventure and then back to Sheffield in time for tea with Nan!
I am quite glad of this since I always find the possibility of your loved ones worrying themselves sick while you were secretly on another planet or something a bit stressful.

Anyway, it wasn't really that accurate on the way out as they were supposed to be going to Lahore in the 1950's. Not sure how the TARDIS managed to find the pertinent time by itself though.
 
I am quite glad of this since I always find the possibility of your loved ones worrying themselves sick while you were secretly on another planet or something a bit stressful.

Anyway, it wasn't really that accurate on the way out as they were supposed to be going to Lahore in the 1950's. Not sure how the TARDIS managed to find the pertinent time by itself though.
The TARDIS is telepathic and takes the Doctor to where the Doctor is needed not to where the Doctor wants to go.
 
Far from convinced that's an accurate, or even terribly appropriate, analogy. It could even come across as a little disingenuous. To take such issue with any show, let alone one with such a high profile, foregrounding variants of human other than the thus far dominant ones, something sorely needed and overdue, says far more about you than the programme.

I've always found the complaint that a given show doesn't 'reflect reality' in its ratios of races and genders and so forth just as disingenuous - it's a show, it doesn't have to conform to 'reality', or any given perception of it, just its own rules. DW's rules seem to be variety and diversity, and I applaud that wholeheartedly.

Life's a kaleidoscope - celebrate it.

"disingenuous"

No. I can assure you there was no deceit or insincerity in my reply. My referee's training, warning about over compensating, was honestly what your comment reminded me of.

Given my anglo-celto-indian heritage and, my wife and children's French nationality, I reckon I have a reasonable feel for life's kaleidoscope.
I just feel a bit uncomfortable with the BBC pitching a programme they have pretty well admitted is aimed at children, depicting certain ethnicities as invariably heroic and others as villainous, not to mention tinkering with history to reinforce that view.
That seems perilously close to propaganda.

It's clear that, sadly, we're not going to get any complex storylines in this latest incarnation of Doctor Who, but we can surely still hope for some entertaining lite sci-fi plots without the heavily politicised overtones.
 
I just feel a bit uncomfortable with the BBC pitching a programme they have pretty well admitted is aimed at children, depicting certain ethnicities as invariably heroic and others as villainous, not to mention tinkering with history to reinforce that view.

Except, they haven't depicted certain ethnicities as invariably heroic and others as villainous; we've had characters on both ends of the spectrum, and a few places in between, from several ethnicities, including non-terrestrial ones. If anything, the show's been studious in not labelling or stereotyping any ethnicities. The closest they've gotten is the admittedly pretty stock suited, wealthy, disconnected-from-responsibility-and-reality white man, but that image describes many of the powerful individuals troubling the world right now, so why not make use of it? It'd resonate entirely because of that. Could you provide examples?

Also, examples of 'tinkering with history'. It's not exactly uncommon - witness Hollywood's love of it - but it's not usually in the favour of non-whites or minorities. I'm trying to understand your position, but until you give something more concrete it's difficult.
 
Im starting to look forward to DW and Ive not felt that in years. I really like Jo Whittaker as the doctor her warmth and charisma are lovely I also love Bradly Walsh and Yasmin Khan. Tosin Cole sadly hasn't had enough stuff to work with.

It is an improvement on the Moffat era.
 
It does feel more like family entertainment than some of the more recent incarnations.

There were times, particularly with the doctors wife stuff that it was all too much effort to try and get to grips with. With this lot i can at least get on the sewing, darning etc without reaching for a note book.
 
Well, we're not getting a Christmas special this December. But we are getting a New Year's Special! That's fine.
 
It does feel more like family entertainment than some of the more recent incarnations.

There were times, particularly with the doctors wife stuff that it was all too much effort to try and get to grips with. With this lot i can at least get on the sewing, darning etc without reaching for a note book.

With some of the more involved Eccleston, Tennant, Smith and Capaldi storylines, you really had to pay attention to follow all the nuances and you were occasionally blindsided by some quite dark and clever twists. This new incarnation is clearly more lightweight, leave-your-brain-at-home stuff.
I'm not at all convinced that's an improvement though.
 
I not at all convinced US Civil Rights and the partition of India are lightweight!

The historical events weren't, but the simplistic way they were shoe-horned into DW along with the clumsy politics certainly was.

With hindsight, I now recognise how good some of the genuinely creepy scenarios from the Moffat era were. Skeleton walking in a spacesuit, isolated dalek believing it was a human etc.
 
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