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What Exactly Did Les Dawson See Re. Sid James' Ghost?

Ghost In The Machine

Ghost In The Machine

Justified & Ancient
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Reading about theatre history and yet again came across stories about Les Dawson seeing the ghost of Sid James, not long before his own death.

And it's clear that whatever he saw, was absolutely terrifying.

But I can't seem to find an account I thought I found a while back, that did actually say what Les saw. I've seen accounts that say he never told anyone what he saw, precisely, just that it was Sid and he refused to work there ever again. But I've also seen accounts hinting that Les did let drop precisely what he saw and that Sid's 'ghost' said something to him... But I can't find what. Anyone know/got any links?

It sounds unusually terrifying. I saw Les perform in the 1970s, on stage and have an interest as well as I love anything to do with the declining years of music hall as my dad was a musician (as his night job) on the Northern clubs circuit and I grew up around some of these acts. So - anyone know what Les saw?
 
Ghost In The Machine said:
Reading about theatre history and yet again came across stories about Les Dawson seeing the ghost of Sid James, not long before his own death.

And it's clear that whatever he saw, was absolutely terrifying.

But I can't seem to find an account I thought I found a while back, that did actually say what Les saw. I've seen accounts that say he never told anyone what he saw, precisely, just that it was Sid and he refused to work there ever again. But I've also seen accounts hinting that Les did let drop precisely what he saw and that Sid's 'ghost' said something to him... But I can't find what. Anyone know/got any links?

It sounds unusually terrifying. I saw Les perform in the 1970s, on stage and have an interest as well as I love anything to do with the declining years of music hall as my dad was a musician (as his night job) on the Northern clubs circuit and I grew up around some of these acts. So - anyone know what Les saw?
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Yeah this is a real doozy isn't it? The story has been going around for so long but with the missing details....well, that just makes it even more terrifying/interesting. Love it.
 
From the articles I can find, it looks like he saw something but still can't see if anyone ever knew what it was, precisely, he saw and what it said... Maybe I have a false memory of reading something that answered those questions!
 
Slemens article is interesting. i first found out about this when reading a Sid James biography, there was a one page epilogue concerning Les Dawson performance at said location. the audience apparantly noticed his distracted state and haste to leave. asked about it later he said (and ill hqve to dig the book oot) 'What happened in that dressing room was the most terrifying thing to occur in my life'

No mention of Sid James and the biographer (Goodwin?) merely stated - this was where Sid James died.

So , to me, there is definitely a story here but perhaps the Sid James part was added later?
 
Spudrick68 said:
If you use the ouija to request an answer from Sid James, do you think that he will give you one?
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Oooh matron.
_83373_williams300.jpg
 
Well... if say Derek Acorah suddenly starts leering and does that delighted dirty cackle it might convince me DA just possibly isn't hamming it up and might even be for real...
 
DrPaulLee said:
Here's a solution: get a Ouija board and ask Les himself. Perhaps Sid will pipe in with verification too.
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LOL. That's not a mission for me. By some freakish coincidence, my youngest 2 kids' late grandma was Babs Windsor's cousin. I probably wouldn't be able to get rid of Sid, technically being family to Babs. :cool2: (All I know is that they were some kind of cousin and estranged as Babs' dad, I think it was, didn't speak to my kids' grandma's side of the family. Kids' grandma grew up on the same street as the Krays...)
 
Ghost In The Machine said:
LOL. That's not a mission for me. By some freakish coincidence, my youngest 2 kids' late grandma was Babs Windsor's cousin. I probably wouldn't be able to get rid of Sid, technically being family to Babs. :cool2: (All I know is that they were some kind of cousin and estranged as Babs' dad, I think it was, didn't speak to my kids' grandma's side of the family. Kids' grandma grew up on the same street as the Krays...)
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Does that mean then Ghost that your Children are decedents to John Constable..?....Babs Windsor certainly was.

As an aside. When I was a kid I told everyone that I was related to Kenneth Williams, as his Mother, Lou Williams, would attend every family get together until the day she died.

Kenneth would turn up occasionally, and there is photo somewhere with a very young me posing with them both.

Only found out last year this was comple bunkum. His Mother was an old friend to one of my uncles, so got an invite to family meets, and that sometimes Ken would come along if he had nothing else planned.

In any case he was a very strange man. ( Williams that is not my uncle who was a very kind man :) )
 
Dick Turpin said:
Does that mean then Ghost that your Children are decedents to John Constable..?....Babs Windsor certainly was.

As an aside. When I was a kid I told everyone that I was related to Kenneth Williams, as his Mother, Lou Williams, would attend every family get together until the day she died.

Kenneth would turn up occasionally, and there is photo somewhere with a very young me posing with them both.

Only found out last year this was comple bunkum. His Mother was an old friend to one of my uncles, so got an invite to family meets, and that sometimes Ken would come along if he had nothing else planned.

In any case he was a very strange man. ( Williams that is not my uncle who was a very kind man :) )
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Do you remember much about him?
 
Dick Turpin said:
Does that mean then Ghost that your Children are decedents to John Constable..?....Babs Windsor certainly was.

As an aside. When I was a kid I told everyone that I was related to Kenneth Williams, as his Mother, Lou Williams, would attend every family get together until the day she died.

Kenneth would turn up occasionally, and there is photo somewhere with a very young me posing with them both.

Only found out last year this was comple bunkum. His Mother was an old friend to one of my uncles, so got an invite to family meets, and that sometimes Ken would come along if he had nothing else planned.

In any case he was a very strange man. ( Williams that is not my uncle who was a very kind man :) )
Click to expand...

At the risk of derailing this thread slightly, my uncle also knew Kenneth Williams slightly as he moved in theatrical circles. According to him, Williams' wind-breaking antics were quite legendary.
 
Ogdred Weary said:
Do you remember much about him?
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No way too young sadly Ogdred. We are talking mid 1970's here

I know my parents didn't like him much, especially the old man who was and still is, (I’ll choose my words carefully here) very much an old fashioned traditionalist, if you can guess what I mean.

Back on topic.

Are there any reports of the ghost of Sid James, being spotted at the Sunderland Empire, since his supposed encounter with Les Dawson..?

Interestingly, both my maternal Grandparents, were cremated in the same Crematorium as James, at Golders Green.
 
Dick Turpin said:
Does that mean then Ghost that your Children are decedents to John Constable..?....Babs Windsor certainly was.

As an aside. When I was a kid I told everyone that I was related to Kenneth Williams, as his Mother, Lou Williams, would attend every family get together until the day she died.

Kenneth would turn up occasionally, and there is photo somewhere with a very young me posing with them both.

Only found out last year this was comple bunkum. His Mother was an old friend to one of my uncles, so got an invite to family meets, and that sometimes Ken would come along if he had nothing else planned.

In any case he was a very strange man. ( Williams that is not my uncle who was a very kind man :) )
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Still cool, though!

Ex's mum was from an East End Jewish family - she's gone now, or I'd get more detail from her! All I remember her saying - and she's probably been gone a decade, now - was something about them being estranged, that no-one in Babs' family spoke to anyone in her's but I regret not getting the full story. When I saw Barbara W on that genealogy show, she had a very English backstory - which ex's mum didn't, but it was quite a diverse family from all over Europe, essentially. Wish I'd asked her questions, now.

She did tell me some good stories about the Krays, though. She grew up with them.
 
OrsonSwells said:
At the risk of derailing this thread slightly, my uncle also knew Kenneth Williams slightly as he moved in theatrical circles. According to him, Williams' wind-breaking antics were quite legendary.
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He was quite fixated on his bum.

Oh and to echo Dick (this is getting very Carry On), yes, I'd love to read about other people experiencing Sid's ghost, since this supposed sighting. It just caught my imagination as it didn't seem at all benign, despite being the ghost of someone we all think of as benign.
 
We really need to hear about any attempted communications with the ghost of Kenneth Williams.

Medium: Is there anybody there?

ffftttttttt

Medium: Is that you, Kenneth? Do you have a message for us?

fffffffffffftttttttttttttttttttttt
 
Ogdred Weary said:
Not just his own.
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Although gay, Williams wasn't particularly sexually active because he had what was then called a 'spastic colon', which was actually a case of irritable bowel syndrome. It often made him quite ill and certainly not up to fooling around in that department. Poor bloke.
 
Didn't Sid tell Babs that if she did not reciprocate his love for her he would have a heart attack and die? She told him not to be silly, but shortly after he did indeed have a heart attack and die. Maybe his ghost is waiting for Babs to turn up?
 
escargot said:
Although gay, Williams wasn't particularly sexually active because he had what was then called a 'spastic colon', which was actually a case of irritable bowel syndrome. It often made him quite ill and certainly not up to fooling around in that department. Poor bloke.
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Insert "ooh" GIF here.
 
escargot said:
Although gay, Williams wasn't particularly sexually active because he had what was then called a 'spastic colon', which was actually a case of irritable bowel syndrome. It often made him quite ill and certainly not up to fooling around in that department. Poor bloke.
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Yes, I heard about this and it certainly explains his infamously pungent flatulence.
 
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