I can't help but wonder about the canonical appearance of a "hat man" and the depictions of a canonical villain from the 19th century onward. Whether rendered in animation or live action, the archetypal villain follows a dress code involving dark / black color, a coat / cloak / cape, and a hat.
In popular media - most especially the cartoons produced as children's fare - this trope was made dominant so as to recognize the "bad guy" at face value.
The earliest version in American pop culture might well be Simon Legree (Uncle Tom's Cabin), whose name became a synonym for a cruel villain. By the time early 20th century cartoons had stereotyped Legree and / or his obvious derivatives, the long coat and broad-brimmed hat were standard garb.
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The broad-brimmed hat would be the usual headwear for a possessed fiend or the evil authority figure.
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Meanwhile, the more urbane version would wear a top hat ...
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Is it any wonder that a child's description of an anonymous sinister figure would incorporate these canonical elements?
Let us not forget the ingrained though incorrect impression of Jack the Ripper that comes to mind when the name is mentioned to the genera public...
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I've been on these boards for nearly 20 years, in various shapes
I'm a queer, disabled geek
In 200 years time, all the creatures trying to imitate humans will be wearing a natty woollen number with a fluffy pompom on top.
And wearing a surgical mask....or with knitted ears....
EnolaGaia, thank you for your careful and detailed explanation! I think I understand it a little better now. I like the Plato's Cave analogy. I do wonder what Jung would have said about the Top Hat Man phenomenon had it occurred during his lifetime. Hmmm, now I'm going to wonder how far back stories of such "creatures" go... Lots of food for thought in this thread!The subject is both "fuzzy" and "complicated." I'm no Jung expert, but I have studied his work and his concepts relating to archetypes. Here's what I'd say based on my understanding ...
Archetypes are primordial, universal and shared among us humans as essential and very general patterns or forms.. As such they're "hard wired" in the sense they underlie our basic psychic / mental / experiential structures and operations. The archetypes per se are manifest in human experience via symbolic, figural, or performed manifestations that reflect the patterns or forms of the underlying archetypes. One might say these manifestations (I think Jung called them "archetypal images") are to the archetypes as the shadows cast in Plato's Cave are to the forms casting them. The archetypes themselves are therefore known only indirectly.
Based on this, and circling back to your question, I'd say ... The archetypes themselves don't evolve (at least not so as to be noticeably changing), but their manifestations can be varied and diverse. The specifics of the manifestations or the preponderance of the manifestations in a given context might conceivably vary over time, and thus I'd say it's the projections of the archetypes rather than the archetypes themselves that evolve.
Er, and we're on a board discussing 'something trying to be human'
I am amazed at the kindness I have experienced on her with offerings of condolence. Thankyou everyone. My brother had lots of experiences in his life ( spooky) and I think he was a bit of a conduit for things to come through. Since he died I’ve not seen or heard a peep from him but I am sure around. His daughter 21, seems to have inherited it a bit and this all came down from my Nan , a true cockney who saw and experienced things all her life. Thanks again it gives me confidence to share moreThank you for sharing this. It was really interesting to hear and fascinating that what seems like a very individual and personal experience actually has lore around it from other individuals. On a personal note I hope you are dealing ok with your bereavement. Many thanks again for sharing.
I'm typing this with my tentacles. :fhtagn:Ha ha. Yes. This is amusing and I type these words with my human hands, yes, absolutely. I also definitely read the screen with all of my eyes, just like every other totally normal human person does, yes.
I'm typing this with my tentacles. :fhtagn:
I can see contemporary appearance being a factor in ignoring possibly paranormal phenomena.
If you flip the proposition to consider non-contemporary appearances it helps to explain some anomalies ...
It's relative appearance (in terms of presumed time period) that defines two of the common categories of Fortean experiences. If you see someone in archaic dress, it's a "ghost." If you see someone in dress that's futuristic (or too modern for an old image), it's a "time traveler."
Ah the terror of childhood toilets... I'd forgotten all about it, but when I lived in a haunted house for a year as a child, the toilet was a place of dread...I had a permanent uneasy feeling constantly, to point I had to be accompanied to the toilet at all times!
The mind boggleshargingers of bad news. :hide:
Ah the terror of childhood toilets... I'd forgotten all about it, but when I lived in a haunted house for a year as a child, the toilet was a place of dread...
I posted it years ago... I'll have to dig out a link.The most convenient place to shit yourself though.
What happened in your haunted house/loo?
I posted it here:I posted it years ago... I'll have to dig out a link.
This is... all bringing back some odd memories for me. Or making me reconsider some half-remembered memories, at any rate.
I'd planned on putting all this into another account I'm drawing together about the house I grew up in (newish semi-detached, built on former farmland, and we know no-one ever died in there since we knew the first owners) which always had a bad atmosphere. But a lot of very strange things happened over the 28 years my folks lived there - many involving me - and when they moved in 2005, my mother said it was like a huge weight had been lifted off her.
But anyway. As a kid of about three or four, I frequently talked about 'Shell Ghost'. Shell Ghost lived in my wardrobe. Shell Ghost was black. Shell Ghost had a hat. Shell Ghost came out at night and stared at me in bed. Shell Ghost moved my toys. Shell Ghost was not my friend.
My parents remember me talking incessantly about all this, and I even wrote stuff like the above in my Primary 2 jotter. But I don't specifically remember Shell Ghost, or what it was supposed to have looked like. Or where the weird name came from (this is years before Ghost In The Shell, btw).
Until recently, when I was watching a YouTube compilation of 1980s adverts, and this came on:
Crikey Moses, that's where it came from.
The creepy figure in the (deeply creepy) advert for Shell is, seemingly, what my younger self perceived as the match of the figure from my wardrobe.
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And reading the above posts, I'm now wondering... did I have a Hat Man also?
I genuinely can't remember exactly what the figure looked like; only that there was a figure, and I remember talking a lot about the figure. But, even after I stopped talking about Shell Ghost (apparently I solemnly informed everyone that he was "going away" sometime in early 1987), the corner of the room where the wardrobe once stood remained a bit of an odd area, where furniture would shake and things would disappear, often permanently.
And the room was always, always cold, despite getting full sun all day.
Mmm... might need to dig a bit deeper into this one. Thread duly bookmarked...
I've just been reading about the Shell ad a few minutes ago! I didn't think I remembered it until your post, and I watched the clip and it all came flooding back. It didn't give me nightmares, though the chapter in the book is about how 80s ads went nuts for a while, happy to scare the audience which I doubt they do now.
I posted it here:
https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/anyone-seen-a-ghost.621/post-214313
And a brief summary here:
https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/early-fortean-experiences.12530/post-214220
Neither mention the toilet/bathroom, but it was horrible, a very strong sense of presence which I only remembered when my memory was jogged on this thread.
Yes... As I recall (it was a long time ago) the sense of presence was frequent, especially in the bathroom and in my bedroom, right beside it, sometimes so strong it was unbearable.So you sensed a presence in the toilet? Did this recur?