A Tidal Wave Of Narcissists?

Cloudbusting

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I think we must beware, in situations like this, not to conflate 'narcississm' with 'autism'. While there are, undoubtedly, occasions where the two things cross over and there are those who have both conditions simultaneously, the words are not interchangeable. I can see how someone could confuse the two, but autistic people are not automatically 'narcissistic' and not all narcississtic people are on the spectrum.

100%

The thread has developed and the discussion has naturally widened. However, I have no doubt that autism and narcissism are very distinct/different things, and I think pretty much everyone would agree on that. I hope so anyway! :)
 

JahaRa

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I wonder whether it's his autism that makes him appear 'arrogant', simply because he is unable to comprehend anyone having an alternate view to his own. As I've said on here before, I have a friend with an autistic son and he shares many of these characteristics - he is simply absolutely unable to understand that what he is told by someone in authority isn't necessarily truth (so is very susceptible to being misled or to conspiracy theories) or that what he thinks is not what everybody else thinks and believes. It manifests as a form of arrogance, but is really due to a lack of theory of mind.

My daughter, also on the spectrum, has none of these characteristics. So is autism simply making someone who is natrually arrogant even MORE arrogant, or is autism being mistaken for arrogance because the autistic person cannot comprehend their needs not being supreme?
I think it has more to do with emotion and processing that. My grandson had been asking his mother to take him to a hair dresser to dye a blue streak in his hair. The hairdresser asked if he was excited and he asked his mother "why would I be excited?" I think the hair dresser expected him to have some kind of anticipation and excitement to get a blue streak in his hair, but he had no clue of that. He didn't anticipate it, he asked and a few weeks went by before his mother could take him to get it done.

As for the Sheldon character, I do consider that more autistic behavior than narcissistic behavior. On the other hand in the show Just Shoot Me, the character that David Spade plays is a narcissist and a useless character, adds nothing to the show, but for some reason we are supposed to laugh when he says or does inappropriate things. Many sit coms have that character and it is the reason they are not funny, the writers get lazy and don't want to give us thoughtful comedy, it has to be slap stick or slap in your face.
 

Coal

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As for software engineers, I am one and have worked with a lot of them and they for the most part are socially awkward. If you weren't sitting in the cube next to them I could understand that you think they weren't.
I have and my experience is the reverse of yours.
 

Shady

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I'm getting old, when I was a kid being on the spectrum would have had something to do with fighting the Mysterons.
Funniest post ever lmfao.
I once went to the doctors and told the receptionist that I had come for my appointment for a spectrum, she said "Don't you mean a speclum?" thought I'd drop that in as we mentioned Captain Scarlett.

I am seeing this narcissistic personality being even more prevalent since the Johnny Depp Amber Heard trial, its thrown around a lot. Talking about Autism my Sil and two of her children have Autism and they looked at me and said I've noticed you have the same symptoms, WTF, see, being diagnosed, not by a doctor, so easy to do . I didn't slap them, they are younger and faster than me.
It has become a world of entitled people using genuine illnesses, which they probably dont have, to basically control your speech.

All people on here are sane, well, maybe, I worry bout Swifty sometimes, but he is a good kind of crazy.
 

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Funniest post ever lmfao.
I once went to the doctors and told the receptionist that I had come for my appointment for a spectrum, she said "Don't you mean a speclum?" thought I'd drop that in as we mentioned Captain Scarlett.

I am seeing this narcissistic personality being even more prevalent since the Johnny Depp Amber Heard trial, its thrown around a lot. Talking about Autism my Sil and two of her children have Autism and they looked at me and said I've noticed you have the same symptoms, WTF, see, being diagnosed, not by a doctor, so easy to do . I didn't slap them, they are younger and faster than me.
It has become a world of entitled people using genuine illnesses, which they probably dont have, to basically control your speech.

All people on here are sane, well, maybe, I worry bout Swifty sometimes, but he is a good kind of crazy.
That Johnny Depp Amber Heard trial was nothing more than two bored, entitled people with nothing better to do,
than drag out their -yawn- personal grievances against each other, while throwing their wealth around.
And aren't they embarrassed to have their personal lives put on display, I would be mortified.....
 

Shady

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Yes I just hope she gets jail time for the stupidity she showed in taking her dogs to Australia knowing the law. I do not go on social media, i stay in contact with friends only on discord, telegram and whatsapp mostly
 

Cochise

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I have and my experience is the reverse of yours.
Lets not forget that many people have a two way interaction with their profession - ANY profession.

Some kinds of people are better suited to certain professions, and the nature of the profession also has an effect in return. Doctors, teachers, police, lawyers, chefs - while not all conform to a stereotype, many do have something about them which marks them out.
 

Yithian

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Lets not forget that many people have a two way interaction with their profession - ANY profession.

Some kinds of people are better suited to certain professions, and the nature of the profession also has an effect in return. Doctors, teachers, police, lawyers, chefs - while not all conform to a stereotype, many do have something about them which marks them out.

Friend of mine is a chef—a real chef—which is to say a 'working chef' who manages sizeable kitchens and the whole process of creating menus, ordering ingredients, managing staff, and, very frequently, working long hours and dealing with mistakes at the last minute. He's worked for hotels, private schools, golf clubs etc. for about thirty years now.

He reckons one of the worst changes in the profession is that owing to the influence of high-profile celebrity arseholes there has been an appreciable influx of people who think that being an effective chef requires arrogance and dramatics.

We were discussing the problem only the other week and his view is that although there are moments where flair can win plaudits, praise and perks; a little knowlege of psychology and logistics and good organisational skills are what guarantee the kind of continual employment he has enjoyed.

Whether he would say there are many narcissists in his profession, I shouldn't like to say, but I know he thinks the arsehole quotient has risen perceptibly in recent years.
 

Sillyhuron

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It's not just us civilians. Some medical professionals are narcissistic, and if anything they're more dangerous because they have the establishment on their side. I went to a shrink once , and after 15 minutes of answering questions he pronounced me a Narcissist. When I pointed out he hardly knew yet, he literally talked over me for several minutes defending his position.
While he was ranting, he mentioned that none of other shrinks in his office agreed with his methods, but all other shrinks knew "was to hold somebody's hand".
Turned out there were so many complaints about him the provincial medical board put a condition on his license, saying he had to attend psychiatric conventions & talk/mingle with other professionals for a year.
He "resigned from membership" instead.
 
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Cochise

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Friend of mine is a chef—a real chef—which is to say a 'working chef' who manages sizeable kitchens and the whole process of creating menus, ordering ingredients, managing staff, and, very frequently, working long hours and dealing with mistakes at the last minute. He's worked for hotels, private schools, golf clubs etc. for about thirty years now.

He reckons one of the worst changes in the profession is that owing to the influence of high-profile celebrity arseholes there has been an appreciable influx of people who think that being an effective chef requires arrogance and dramatics.

We were discussing the problem only the other week and his view is that although there are moments where flair can win plaudits, praise and perks; a little knowlege of psychology and logistics and good organisational skills are what guarantee the kind of continual employment he has enjoyed.

Whether he would say there are many narcissists in his profession, I shouldn't like to say, but I know he thinks the arsehole quotient has risen perceptibly in recent years.
Yes. It's not a new problem though. My Uncle Doug had a scar on his head where he got in the way of a knife thrown in the kitchen by my chef Granddad. In fact I think that was the final straw Grandma left and took the kids. Except my Aunt Josie, the oldest.

My Dad, normally mild mannered, could get very loud if someone ruined expensive food through inattention or whatever. Gordon Ramsey without the swearing.
 

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Friend of mine is a chef—a real chef—which is to say a 'working chef' who manages sizeable kitchens and the whole process of creating menus, ordering ingredients, managing staff, and, very frequently, working long hours and dealing with mistakes at the last minute. He's worked for hotels, private schools, golf clubs etc. for about thirty years now.

He reckons one of the worst changes in the profession is that owing to the influence of high-profile celebrity arseholes there has been an appreciable influx of people who think that being an effective chef requires arrogance and dramatics.

We were discussing the problem only the other week and his view is that although there are moments where flair can win plaudits, praise and perks; a little knowlege of psychology and logistics and good organisational skills are what guarantee the kind of continual employment he has enjoyed.

Whether he would say there are many narcissists in his profession, I shouldn't like to say, but I know he thinks the arsehole quotient has risen perceptibly in recent years.
Chefs are to be admired - that is real talent to be able to take plain foods and turn them into mouth-watering gourmet delights!
And service people always have it the worst - they are forced to put up with a whole range of people and attitudes, and unfortunately some feel that the louder they shriek and the more chaos they stir up, the more important they are - when they are really just embarrassing themselves.
 

Coal

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Lets not forget that many people have a two way interaction with their profession - ANY profession.

Some kinds of people are better suited to certain professions, and the nature of the profession also has an effect in return. Doctors, teachers, police, lawyers, chefs - while not all conform to a stereotype, many do have something about them which marks them out.
True and @JahaRa my apologies if that came off a little snippy. Possible we're all also overlooking the difference between 'introverted' and 'socially awkward', these are not the same things.

People who do software/hardware design are typically introverts; they have a better capacity for attention to detail and working with lot of data and detail - this might, at first glance, seem like 'socially awkward'. Introverts like their social interaction with small groups of people, group activities overwhelm introverts with data and they rapidly becoming tiring and 'no fun'.

Many extroverts think 'introverts are broken extroverts', which is nonsense. It's why social activities organised at (say) companies by extroverts seldom exceed 50% attendance and generally less than that.
 

JahaRa

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True and @JahaRa my apologies if that came off a little snippy. Possible we're all also overlooking the difference between 'introverted' and 'socially awkward', these are not the same things.

People who do software/hardware design are typically introverts; they have a better capacity for attention to detail and working with lot of data and detail - this might, at first glance, seem like 'socially awkward'. Introverts like their social interaction with small groups of people, group activities overwhelm introverts with data and they rapidly becoming tiring and 'no fun'.

Many extroverts think 'introverts are broken extroverts', which is nonsense. It's why social activities organised at (say) companies by extroverts seldom exceed 50% attendance and generally less than that.
I am one of those awkward software engineers, and I never worked with anyone who was a productive and flexible programmer/coder that wasn't somewhat socially awkward. I found the social ones to usualy not be able to program their way out of a papre bag, they could talk a good story about how great they were, but their work did not relfect their words. You have to be able to concentrate on minutae when chaos surrounds you. You also have to be able to sustain some link to what ever you got interrupted from moment to moment.

My awkwardness does not come from being an introvert, it comes from being an extrovert and my insistence on precision in communication and disdain for the dog and pony shows that HR puts on to pretend like they are doing team building, or providing social events for the staff. (I have been a cynic since childhood) I don't attend company parties if I can avoid them because of the silly games and/or the alcohol that people think must be imbibed in order for everyone to have "fun". If you looked at the work of those that seem introverted (actually nose to the grindstone) and those that are social, you would usually see a big difference. That is my opinion from my experience working in the industry since 1984.
 

Coal

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I am one of those awkward software engineers, and I never worked with anyone who was a productive and flexible programmer/coder that wasn't somewhat socially awkward. I found the social ones to usualy not be able to program their way out of a papre bag, they could talk a good story about how great they were, but their work did not relfect their words. You have to be able to concentrate on minutae when chaos surrounds you. You also have to be able to sustain some link to what ever you got interrupted from moment to moment.

My awkwardness does not come from being an introvert, it comes from being an extrovert and my insistence on precision in communication and disdain for the dog and pony shows that HR puts on to pretend like they are doing team building, or providing social events for the staff. (I have been a cynic since childhood) I don't attend company parties if I can avoid them because of the silly games and/or the alcohol that people think must be imbibed in order for everyone to have "fun". If you looked at the work of those that seem introverted (actually nose to the grindstone) and those that are social, you would usually see a big difference. That is my opinion from my experience working in the industry since 1984.
:hoff:
 

Sogna

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I think there are advantages to this desire to categorise conditions though. I have a colleague who was diagnosed with dyslexia comparatively late in his life. He won’t get the years he spent struggling with words back, but he’s got software that helps him and people don’t comment on his spelling. I also find people are happier to talk about mental health issues like depression and anxiety and that has to be a good thing.
 

Cochise

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I think there are advantages to this desire to categorise conditions though. I have a colleague who was diagnosed with dyslexia comparatively late in his life. He won’t get the years he spent struggling with words back, but he’s got software that helps him and people don’t comment on his spelling. I also find people are happier to talk about mental health issues like depression and anxiety and that has to be a good thing.
I agree. That's it's much better we have identified conditions. But I caution against the word 'categorise'. Everything is on a scale, spectrum, call it what you will, human behaviour more than most.

Identification of a problem is one thing, Categorisation - which is dangerously close to pigeonholing - is another entirely. The difference is that the first should work on shades of grey, the second is binary.
 

Cloudbusting

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I think there are advantages to this desire to categorise conditions though. I have a colleague who was diagnosed with dyslexia comparatively late in his life. He won’t get the years he spent struggling with words back, but he’s got software that helps him and people don’t comment on his spelling. I also find people are happier to talk about mental health issues like depression and anxiety and that has to be a good thing.

I don't disagree with you. As a society we're getting better at spotting things like dyslexia and mental health illnesses, but more importantly we're slowly improving how we support those affected to manage their conditions and live fulfilling lives.

However Cochise makes a good point, and I also question at what point it is appropriate to pathologise behaviour. I don't personally like the saying that we're all on a spectrum as I've known people who have totally misconstrued what that means, however at its core it is right.

This then makes you question, what is normal/abnormal? (don't like using those words but don't know how else to put it...) And who determines this? Does your behaviour only qualify as a condition when it starts to affect your day to day activities and how you relate to the world? I can see pros and cons to that approach... In terms of mental health there are the DSM manuals, but they have been revised over the years and some deride them as garbage.
 

catseye

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This then makes you question, what is normal/abnormal? (don't like using those words but don't know how else to put it...) And who determines this? Does your behaviour only qualify as a condition when it starts to affect your day to day activities and how you relate to the world? I can see pros and cons to that approach... In terms of mental health there are the DSM manuals, but they have been revised over the years and some deride them as garbage.
I think this is it. Something is only a 'problem' when it interferes with your daily life. My daughter was diagnosed on the spectrum as an adult. As a child and young woman she was able to mask really well, although it did interfere with her education to a degree simply being a teenager can interfere with your education. But when it came to actual paid work - that was when her life was disrupted and she needed a diagnosis.

And I hate the prevalent opinion particularly noticeable on Reddit or other fora with a young demographic, that being introvert is somehow 'special' and makes you worthy of particular treatment. I am an extrovert, it doesn't mean my life is any easier or straightforward.
 

Coal

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And I hate the prevalent opinion particularly noticeable on Reddit or other for a with a young demographic, that being introvert is somehow 'special' and makes you worthy of particular treatment. I am an extrovert, it doesn't mean my life is any easier or straightforward.
Wasn't aware of that being a thing.

That said a lot of work-life is extrovert-centric, and it can be tiresome to deal with, but I've never needed special treatment. I just avoid the stuff I don't care to go to and put headphones on (sometime with music, sometime not) to signal 'leave alone, working'.

I have seen instances of extrovert types behaving as if introverts are 'broken extroverts', so applying pressure to (say) socialise after work, which is irritating. If utterly unavoidable I do the '10 minute drop in', make sure I'm driving (can't drink) and have a "moral high ground reason" for having to go on (sick wife/child/parent/dissertation deadline/literally anything that makes someone look mean for applying any more pressure etc..).
 

catseye

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Wasn't aware of that being a thing.

That said a lot of work-life is extrovert-centric, and it can be tiresome to deal with, but I've never needed special treatment. I just avoid the stuff I don't care to go to and put headphones on (sometime with music, sometime not) to signal 'leave alone, working'.

I have seen instances of extrovert types behaving as if introverts are 'broken extroverts', so applying pressure to (say) socialise after work, which is irritating. If utterly unavoidable I do the '10 minute drop in', make sure I'm driving (can't drink) and have a "moral high ground reason" for having to go on (sick wife/child/parent/dissertation deadline/literally anything that makes someone look mean for applying any more pressure etc..).
Head over to Reddit - it's an education!

I don't think there's anything wrong in being either an introvert or an extrovert. it's just two different personality types. The difficulties come when square pegs are forced into round holes, and introverts are expected to be chatty and outgoing for extended periods of time or extroverts are expected to work alone without feedback. Get the right personality type for the right job and it's golden.

But even extroverts need downtime and introverts need conversation, sometimes.
 

JahaRa

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I think there are advantages to this desire to categorise conditions though. I have a colleague who was diagnosed with dyslexia comparatively late in his life. He won’t get the years he spent struggling with words back, but he’s got software that helps him and people don’t comment on his spelling. I also find people are happier to talk about mental health issues like depression and anxiety and that has to be a good thing.
I suppose it is a good thing except for those who self diagnose and have to tell everyone they encounter their story. Or those who really are sociopaths that you might confide in then using it against you. Maybe depression and anxiety are not something you should talk about except with people you trust or a counselor.

As for creating a classification of cognitve divergent that is very weird to me, and dyslexia is lumped in to that classification. Some people walk around letting everyone know thay are cognitively divergent like it makes them special. What is that about?
 

JahaRa

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And I hate the prevalent opinion particularly noticeable on Reddit or other fora with a young demographic, that being introvert is somehow 'special' and makes you worthy of particular treatment. I am an extrovert, it doesn't mean my life is any easier or straightforward.
People always want to be special. I have seen people who are pathologically unable to get along with anyone claim that it is because they are Starseeds, and that makes them special.
 

Coal

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Head over to Reddit - it's an education!

I don't think there's anything wrong in being either an introvert or an extrovert. it's just two different personality types. The difficulties come when square pegs are forced into round holes, and introverts are expected to be chatty and outgoing for extended periods of time or extroverts are expected to work alone without feedback. Get the right personality type for the right job and it's golden.

But even extroverts need downtime and introverts need conversation, sometimes.
^this^

I recommend:

Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can't Stop Talking​

Susan Cain
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Quiet-Power-Introverts-World-Talking/dp/0141029196

This does a pretty good job of delineating the introvert and extravert behaviour differences and why they exist (it literally is a hard wired thing). The interesting aspect for me is that it's introverts who are detail orientated, so tend to gravitate toward jobs where that really matters (hardware/software engineers for example) but it's also the case the introverts are generally better listeners (detail again), so often make better salespeople, especially if the product is complex.

Unfortunately refers to MBTI, the FFM model introvert/extravert scale is more accurate, but still. Some good (referenced) nuggets in there, for example, it notes some very successful people are introverts who 'wear the mask', but that this requires huge efforts and massive downtimes.

There's some interesting stuff about how managing teams can be affected. Extraverts struggle with mixed or mostly introvert teams while introvert managers generally manage mixed teams and introvert teams well.
 

C.O.T.

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Narcissism is a thread of the personality, not necessarily a mental illness, nor something especially bad, as other personality threads. You can be very narcissistic and become a very funny and interesting artist, just cause this thread. But it needs that the person can build a distance between the pulsion and the self.
One extreme example of this is Salvador Dali the surrealist painter and overexposed media and tv personality, he was repeating all the time that he was not only a good artist but a genuine "Genius" but he used to add to this kind of humoristic interviews, sentences like: " latelly is being told very much that Dali is a Genius...sadly the 85% of the times it is said by Dali itself"...and a lot of jokes of that kind.
On other side there are personalities that can't build that distance, and that find any menace to his image as a unbearable damage. The example of any mad dictator in history.
 

Cochise

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But even extroverts need downtime and introverts need conversation, sometimes.
Very much this. I'm not sure whether I'm an introverted extrovert or an extrovert with a hermit complex. I need both. There are times - these days maybe the majority of time - when 'I want to be alone' - and I'm quite happy with my alone-ness. But if I don't get a dose of extrovert behaviour at regular intervals (currently about once a month) then my mood goes very down.

Even in my teens and twenties I balanced playing in a band with a need to be very much alone - the latter probably cost me my first real love (as opposed to schoolboy crush / teenage lust).
 
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