Age Of Earth: Fossil Evidence Versus Religion

[AlchoPwn]

In this thread, I am arguing in a similar way, but in the opposite direction. God who made the Earth in 6 days around 6,000 years ago cannot exist if the scientific evidence is correct. However, the scientific evidence sheds no light on whether a God who created all things in the universe, over a much longer period, exists, or not.

I note with pleasure that you are an atheist Mikefule, but I take issue with your line of reasoning. Consider the evidence:

We have a Bible that we are told is the Word of God. As God is omnibenevolent, he would not deliberately mislead us pitiful humans. As God is omniscient, he would know if there was a mistake in his book, even before the mistake is made (gift of prophecy). As God is perfect, he hates mistakes and wouldn't allow them to be done in his name (for example my lack of capitalization of "he" when referring to God, would be something God wouldn't allow). As God is omnipotent, he will always have the power to alter that book. So if the Bible has any mistakes in it, then we know that there is no God. Science shows us proof that the Bible is catastrophically wrong about a great many things. The errors start on page 1 with the notion of firmaments, which is essentially the solid ceiling of the world https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firmament. Jesus in fact refers to all the stars falling off that ceiling at the end of the world (Mark 13:25)(Matthew 24:29), and that this would occur within the generation of his disciples. This makes Jesus a false prophet, as it never happened, and proves God is fake, as it is absurd to imagine all the gigantic stars in the Universe rushing towards tiny little Earth; we simply don't have the gravitational pull to make that happen. The Torah is a bronze age fantasy, and the New Testament is an Iron Age fantasy, and we can afford to put away childish things, as now we know better.

 

[Mikefule]

I note with pleasure that you are an atheist Mikefule, but I take issue with your line of reasoning. Consider the evidence:

We have a Bible that we are told is the Word of God. As God is omnibenevolent, he would not deliberately mislead us pitiful humans. As God is omniscient, he would know if there was a mistake in his book, even before the mistake is made (gift of prophecy). As God is perfect, he hates mistakes and wouldn't allow them to be done in his name (for example my lack of capitalization of "he" when referring to God, would be something God wouldn't allow). As God is omnipotent, he will always have the power to alter that book. So if the Bible has any mistakes in it, then we know that there is no God. Science shows us proof that the Bible is catastrophically wrong about a great many things. The errors start on page 1 with the notion of firmaments, which is essentially the solid ceiling of the world https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firmament. Jesus in fact refers to all the stars falling off that ceiling at the end of the world (Mark 13:25)(Matthew 24:29), and that this would occur within the generation of his disciples. This makes Jesus a false prophet, as it never happened, and proves God is fake, as it is absurd to imagine all the gigantic stars in the Universe rushing towards tiny little Earth; we simply don't have the gravitational pull to make that happen. The Torah is a bronze age fantasy, and the New Testament is an Iron Age fantasy, and we can afford to put away childish things, as now we know better.

I would follow all that reasoning or more, but I was trying to confine my post as much as possible to addressing the specific point that opened the thread: the OP posted <<Basically, an argument I have, which may well be flawed this is why I ask, is that surely the discovery of dinosaur bones disproves the existence of God?>>

My answer to that is that dinosaur bones do not disprove the existence of God. They only disprove one particular belief about God.

I could write volumes on the other stuff, but not in this thread.

Your own jokey post, above closely mirrors Descartes' flawed reasoning which he intended seriously. Having gone by small steps to "Cogito, ergo sum," he suddenly leaped to "And I'm sure that a perfect God wouldn't deceive me about all the other stuff, so that must be true too."

 

[AlchoPwn]

I would follow all that reasoning or more, but I was trying to confine my post as much as possible to addressing the specific point that opened the thread: the OP posted <<Basically, an argument I have, which may well be flawed this is why I ask, is that surely the discovery of dinosaur bones disproves the existence of God?>> My answer to that is that dinosaur bones do not disprove the existence of God. They only disprove one particular belief about God. I could write volumes on the other stuff, but not in this thread. Your own jokey post, above closely mirrors Descartes' flawed reasoning which he intended seriously. Having gone by small steps to "Cogito, ergo sum," he suddenly leaped to "And I'm sure that a perfect God wouldn't deceive me about all the other stuff, so that must be true too."

The point with Judeo-Christian religion is that it is a religion of scripture. If the scripture can be proven wrong then the religion is wrong. Thus when Jesus says that a mustard seed is the smallest seed (Matthew 13:31, Mark 4:30, and Luke 13:19), he disproves his entire religion, as a real Son of the creator of the Universe should be really good at trivial pursuit questions about biology. The mustard seed wasn't even the smallest cultivar in Palestine, that being the poppy seed. As to the bones of Dinosaurs, the Bible has nothing to say on the issue of the existence of Dinosaurs. I have heard some pretty lame arguments from the religious fringe about how Leviathan and Behemoth were dinosaurs,and then there is Kent Hovind's Creationist Theme Park (well not any more as he went down for tax evasion).

My answer to that is that dinosaur bones do not disprove the existence of God. They only disprove one particular belief about God.

On the contrary, God has properties, and if there is evidence that contradicts the fact of those properties then God, which is an outrageous claim, must be dismissed as lacking supporting evidence. The fact that Dinosaurs are not mentioned in the Bible is not a blanket fail for God, as God may not have thought their existence worth mentioning, but when he can't even get basic meteorology (like precipitation) correct, you have to wonder.

 

[Jim]

Allow me to point out that everyone is entitled to their own beliefs or lack of Beliefs (simply personal choice). I’ve noticed posts by (atheists) that make –poke fun at Christians, Muslims, Jews, etc. The post I’m referring to are not trying to explaining bad personal experiences with religious zealots or the Fortean nature of flawed philosophies. But are just being disrespectful to others belief systems. Is this really the purpose of the forum? Just to set the record straight I’m leaning towards atheism, so I’m not flying the banner for any religious or faith based system.

The same holds true for political rants, some disrespectfulness and unnecessary distraction here as well.

 

[AlchoPwn]

Allow me to point out that everyone is entitled to their own beliefs or lack of Beliefs (simply personal choice). I’ve noticed posts by (atheists) that make –poke fun at Christians, Muslims, Jews, etc. The post I’m referring to are not trying to explaining bad personal experiences with religious zealots or the Fortean nature of flawed philosophies. But are just being disrespectful to others belief systems. Is this really the purpose of the forum? Just to set the record straight I’m leaning towards atheism, so I’m not flying the banner for any religious or faith based system. The same holds true for political rants, some disrespectfulness and unnecessary distraction here as well.

So basically you want everyone to be silent, and not present arguments that make you feel uncomfortable about your religion Jim? Is that an adult response ? Is that the response of someone who lives in an active democracy? Do you really want to create a climate of silence where free speech is banned for fear someone might be offended? Do you think that will make the world a better place? Is your skin so thin and your faith so shallow that you need to live in an internet echo chamber where you only hear the same opinions over and over again, for fear of being offended? If an opinion is obviously, provably, factually incorrect, it needs to be challenged. That my friend is called peer review, and it is one of the the foundations of why science works.

 

[Jim]

So basically you want everyone to be silent, and not present arguments that make you feel uncomfortable about your religion Jim? Is that an adult response ? Is that the response of someone who lives in an active democracy? Do you really want to create a climate of silence where free speech is banned for fear someone might be offended? Do you think that will make the world a better place? Is your skin so thin and your faith so shallow that you need to live in an internet echo chamber where you only hear the same opinions over and over again, for fear of being offended? If an opinion is obviously, provably, factually incorrect, it needs to be challenged. That my friend is called peer review, and it is one of the the foundations of why science works.

You've misinterpreted my post. Political and religious or anti religious rants are why some have already left the forum wake up. You talk about free speech yet you yourself show intolerance. One can play with words to prop up any of these view points or philosophy's. The post wasn't specific to you sorry you took it personally. Defending my religion (what religion?).

 

[Comfortably Numb]

You can either have the dinosaurs, or the Bible, Jesus, et al...

You categorically can not have both.

Absolutely no fudging permissible, a la:

https://creationmuseum.org/search/?q=dinosaurs

Did the dinosaurs go in, 'two by two', as well...?

 

[Dropship]

You can either have the dinosaurs, or the Bible, Jesus, et al...
You categorically can not have both....?

The dinos were a failed genetic experiment because they were too big and need tons of food each day, and their weight would have sunk Noah's Ark so regrettably they had to go....

"Sorry kiddo, you're on the way out"...