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The court case over Alex Jones claiming Sandy Hook was fake and used actors is itself fake and using actors? :thought:
I hadn't thought of it that way but something like that. Maybe?

I don't really know much about Alex Jones's claims about Sandy Hook in detail, just the very basics.
 
...Alex Jones is used to verbal battles and is a highly proficient speaker and debater yet he comes across in the court case as an incompetent idiot, which he definitely is not...

I don't think there's any mystery. Jones might be able to thump a tub when he's preaching to the choir or circle jerking with those he knows read from the same page (I've never actually seen him actually 'debate' anything - not with a grown up who adheres to a different viewpoint), but like many of his type he is utterly and egregiously out of his depth when he does not control the narrative.

Jones also appears to suffer from a particularly modern malady - one which is possibly part of the general zeitgeist, but which does seem to me to be particularly endemic within elements of the more extreme right wing in the US - and that is the struggle many people have in dealing with the rather basic concept of 'consequence'.

I'm not being facetious here - it really does seem to me that the process by which many deal with any reaction to their action is based on utter bewilderment. There was a time when activists did not separate action and consequence - the latter was as much a part of the point as the former; arrest, trial, punishment - these sort of things were all part of the process by which the message was disseminated. But this lot really do seem to believe that when you start a fire, you then just get to go home.

Jones looks to me like someone who strutted into a courtroom thinking it was going to be like a TV show, and then had nothing to fall back on when it became clear it wasn't going to roll out that way.
 
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I hadn't thought of it that way but something like that. Maybe?

I don't really know much about Alex Jones's claims about Sandy Hook in detail, just the very basics.
Me neither. I remember a video where one of the parents walked out to be interviewed and was (seemingly) smiling and laughing, then turned serious in a second. I think that fed a lot of the rumours about 'crisis actors' etc.
 
I had thought that Jones was under the influence of some serious anti-anxiety meds from the clip of him on the stand (and that the judge wished she had whatever he was taking) but agreed, just coming up to a reality that he can't demagogue or bully his way through in a situation that he can't control with his money likely scrambled his communication neurons. And basically he's not all that intelligent. It continues to astound that people hand money to snake oil salesmen.
 
I finally found out why his voice is so gravelly. He's got a torn larynx from all the yelling he does.
He may be on pain meds and it's known that he drinks vodka all day.
 
Thing with Jones is he doesn't actually believe the bullsh*t that he espouses ... but he knows the idiots who listen to him will.
 
I don't think there's any mystery. Jones might be able to thump a tub when he's preaching to the choir or circle jerking with those he knows read from the same page (I've never actually seen him actually 'debate' anything - not with a grown up who adheres to a different viewpoint), but like many of his type he is utterly and egregiously out of his depth when he does not control the narrative.

Jones also appears to suffer from a particularly modern malady - one which is possibly part of the general zeitgeist, but which does seem to me to be particularly endemic within elements of the more extreme right wing in the US - and that is the struggle many people have in dealing with the rather basic concept of 'consequence'.

I'm not being facetious here - it really does seem to me that the process by which many deal with any reaction to their action is based on utter bewilderment. There was a time when activists did not separate action and consequence - the latter was as much a part of the point as the former; arrest, trial, punishment - these sort of things were all part of the process by which the message was disseminated. But this lot really do seem to believe that when you start a fire, you then just get to go home.

Jones looks to me like someone who strutted into a courtroom thinking it was going to be like a TV show, and then had nothing to fall back on when it became clear it wasn't going to roll out that way.
On the one hand I agree with you completely. On the other hand I still get this sense of it all being staged. For what reason though, I haven't a clue.
 
On the one hand I agree with you completely. On the other hand I still get this sense of it all being staged. For what reason though, I haven't a clue.
Some people will do anything because they can get away with it, because they know they're not meant to, because they like stirring shit, because they like upsetting people, because they're dead inside...
 
I don't think there's any mystery. Jones might be able to thump a tub when he's preaching to the choir or circle jerking with those he knows read from the same page (I've never actually seen him actually 'debate' anything - not with a grown up who adheres to a different viewpoint), but like many of his type he is utterly and egregiously out of his depth when he does not control the narrative.

Jones also appears to suffer from a particularly modern malady - one which is possibly part of the general zeitgeist, but which does seem to me to be particularly endemic within elements of the more extreme right wing in the US - and that is the struggle many people have in dealing with the rather basic concept of 'consequence'.

I'm not being facetious here - it really does seem to me that the process by which many deal with any reaction to their action is based on utter bewilderment. There was a time when activists did not separate action and consequence - the latter was as much a part of the point as the former; arrest, trial, punishment - these sort of things were all part of the process by which the message was disseminated. But this lot really do seem to believe that when you start a fire, you then just get to go home.

Jones looks to me like someone who strutted into a courtroom thinking it was going to be like a TV show, and then had nothing to fall back on when it became clear it wasn't going to roll out that way.
Absolutely.

You see it on both sides of the identitarian divide in America, a complete inability to comprehend that actions have consequences.
 
I was listening to a centre-left U.S. political pundit who met Alex Jones at an industry talk radio conference about (I think) fifteen years ago. He reports that he was eccentric but well within the bounds of 'normal' in his demeanour and chatted amiably about such topics as advertising rates, syndication deals and regulation. Crucially, he made oblique comments about maintaining distinct on– and off–air personae and how he had made a conscious choice to attend the event 'out of character' so as not to frighten the organisers.

Fast forward to the near-present and although this pundit himself has not met Jones again himself, he reports that those who have report that the 'off-air' Alex has now vanished: the mask has become his face.
 
Some people will do anything because they can get away with it, because they know they're not meant to, because they like stirring shit, because they like upsetting people, because they're dead inside...
I wasn't just thinking in terms of that abomination, Alex Jones, but rather the whole court case.
 
Thing is, we should look at the whole ecosystem of the media of any country.
In the U.S., they're used to biased ... er ... partisan ... er ... tendency-led media. Every one claims they're 'neutral' but the content shows otherwise. The American media is incredibly biased. But just because 'Left' media are allowed to broadcast as well as 'Right' media doesn't make for a politically and informationally balanced outlet.
 
FInally his big mouth is starting to give consequences of his actions.

well consequences of my own action meme.jpg
 
He will never be able to pay that, ever.
Is that a record? Nearly a billion dollars.
It will ensure that he never opens his big mouth again... but maybe that was the main objective?
 
He will never be able to pay that, ever.
Is that a record? Nearly a billion dollars.
It will ensure that he never opens his big mouth again... but maybe that was the main objective?
Looks like he may have to take on a few extra jobs.
 
He will never be able to pay that, ever.
Is that a record? Nearly a billion dollars.
It will ensure that he never opens his big mouth again... but maybe that was the main objective?

What is the point of awarding damages orders of magnitude greater than the defendant's total assets?
I suppose he will have to claim bankruptcy now to wipe the dept clean.
 
What is the point of awarding damages orders of magnitude greater than the defendant's total assets?
I suppose he will have to claim bankruptcy now to wipe the dept clean.

Already done:

"...Alex Jones’ company has already filed for bankruptcy protection, and it’s not clear how much of the staggering $965 million verdict reached Tuesday he’ll actually wind up paying to the 15 plaintiffs..."

https://news.yahoo.com/alex-jones-basically-broke-rest-220717284.html

I doubt that he'll be reduced to selling Big Issue, though.

maximus otter
 
What is the point of awarding damages orders of magnitude greater than the defendant's total assets?
I suppose he will have to claim bankruptcy now to wipe the dept clean.
I agree, what is the point?
Perhaps to shut him up.
 
'Hurtyfeels' trumps everything else.
If one of your children had been shot & killed at school, you were portrayed as a ‘crisis actor’ then been on the receiving end of abuse & threats for the best part of a decade as a result, you might consider it a bit more than ‘hurtyfeelz'.

He’s banged on about it for years & supporters of his poison have increased traffic to his site & income from selling ‘health products’ & so forth has also increased.

There will be appeals & 1 billion may be unrealistic but he should be hit hard financially & I hope he is.
 
Here's what I don't understand in cases like this. Obviously Jones doesn't have a fraction of what he now owes. Even if he successfully declares bankruptcy, I'm sure he'll still owe a big chunk - if not all - of the judgements against him. Who determines how much of his future earnings he can keep for food, shelter, etc. and how much goes to the debt? Is it a ratio? Is he allowed a minimum personal income and no more?
 
If one of your children had been shot & killed at school, you were portrayed as a ‘crisis actor’ then been on the receiving end of abuse & threats for the best part of a decade as a result, you might consider it a bit more than ‘hurtyfeelz'.

He’s banged on about it for years & supporters of his poison have increased traffic to his site & income from selling ‘health products’ & so forth has also increased.

There will be appeals & 1 billion may be unrealistic but he should be hit hard financially & I hope he is.
Yep, and if you're threatened with rape or your murdered child's grave is urinated on because of his demonstrable lies etc etc

No sympathy for him whatsoever. His lies are vile, and while he has 'apologised', he clearly doesn't believe he's done anything wrong.

I love the judge's quote: "Just because you claim to think something is true does not make it true."
 
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Here's what I don't understand in cases like this. Obviously Jones doesn't have a fraction of what he now owes. Even if he successfully declares bankruptcy, I'm sure he'll still owe a big chunk - if not all - of the judgements against him. Who determines how much of his future earnings he can keep for food, shelter, etc. and how much goes to the debt? Is it a ratio? Is he allowed a minimum personal income and no more?
I think they probably do it in instalments. He'll die before it ever gets paid off.
 
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