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Alien Big Cats ('ABCs')

In your opinion what are alien big cats most likely to be?

  • Escapees from collections, breeding in the UK countryside

    Votes: 53 48.6%
  • A species of endemic British big cat somehow overlooked by science

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Zooform Phenomena - animal-shaped manifestations of paranormal activity

    Votes: 6 5.5%
  • Misidentifications of big dogs, normal cats etc

    Votes: 25 22.9%
  • A big hoax

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Summat else

    Votes: 4 3.7%
  • All of the above

    Votes: 21 19.3%

  • Total voters
    109

Paul_Exeter

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All that said, I do believe there is a paranormal aspect to the large black cat sightings that get called “black pumas”

We have deceased and captured specimens of all the other cf types reported: the Norfolk lynx carcass and others; the Cornish clouded leopard; Felicity the arthritic puma (not black); positive identification of a caracal etc but those “black pumas” remain often spotted yet elusive
 

catseye

Old lady trouser-smell with yesterday's knickers
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York
All that said, I do believe there is a paranormal aspect to the large black cat sightings that get called “black pumas”

We have deceased and captured specimens of all the other cf types reported: the Norfolk lynx carcass and others; the Cornish clouded leopard; Felicity the arthritic puma (not black); positive identification of a caracal etc but those “black pumas” remain often spotted yet elusive
I suspect a lot of these are shadows. Which is why they are black. Perhaps it's all linked (as with this thread https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/there-is-something-in-the-woods) with humans seeing the 'worst case scenario' - ie, a big cat when out alone in the wilds. A kind of 'paweidolia'.... Sorry.
 

eburacum

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I met someone (years ago) who had a domestic cat/jungle cat hybrid pet; it was quite a large animal, with a very strange 'meow'. Sounded like it had been smoking all its life. These crosses are called 'chausies' and are bigger than normal cats- the one I saw wasn't as big as this picture, but still pretty big,
mandala.jpg
 

Spookdaddy

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The following seems to have been recorded at the end of 2021, but for some reason it's been doing the rounds on online regional media outlets the last couple of days.

Check out from 14:00 onwards. It looks like, at this point, he's started re-recording after hearing something we don't. The first noise (14:17) sounds almost a little mechanical to me, or maybe like wind rasping through something like a stiff fabric. The slightly later double hit (starting at 14:56) sounds a wee bit metallic/resonant, like someone banging a large boiler way in the distance. I'm not actually claiming that's what they are, just what they kind of remind me of in the first instance - and I can't get enough volume on the system I'm using just now to get a really clear impression of the audio. (I did wonder about the distant bellowing of red deer for the second set of noises - but I associate that with rutting season, and think this might have been filmed a little late for that.)

Whatever, if the guy who made this wasn't taking the piss, I have to say he's got some sand:

 

brownmane

off kilter
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The following seems to have been recorded at the end of 2021, but for some reason it's been doing the rounds on online regional media outlets the last couple of days.

Check out from 14:00 onwards. It looks like, at this point, he's started re-recording after hearing something we don't. The first noise (14:17) sounds almost a little mechanical to me, or maybe like wind rasping through something like a stiff fabric. The slightly later double hit (starting at 14:56) sounds a wee bit metallic/resonant, like someone banging a large boiler way in the distance. I'm not actually claiming that's what they are, just what they kind of remind me of in the first instance - and I can't get enough volume on the system I'm using just now to get a really clear impression of the audio. (I did wonder about the distant bellowing of red deer for the second set of noises - but I associate that with rutting season, and think this might have been filmed a little late for that.)

Whatever, if the guy who made this wasn't taking the piss, I have to say he's got some sand:

He hears some strange sounds and then put his earplugs in to get a good sleep. WTF? We have our senses for a reason.
 

Spookdaddy

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He hears some strange sounds and then put his earplugs in to get a good sleep. WTF? We have our senses for a reason.

Yup. I tend to think that people split into two basic groups when it comes to stuff like this: 'head under the covers' / 'up and at it - need to know what that is.' I'm the latter; although, in this case, I might not charge out of the tent with nothing but a torch to defend myself with - but I definitely wouldn't be shutting myself down.

That said, I always have silicon earplugs on hand for hotels, and sometimes train journeys - things like that. Bloody lifesavers (other people's lives, that is).

The Peak District has a fair smattering of supposed big cat sightings. When my brother first left the army he worked the roads for a while - one old boy he grafted with swore blind that he'd actually been attacked, and had the lower parts of his coveralls shredded, by a big cat when working somewhere up on the hills.

Big Moor - where the events in #1805 take place - is an isolated bit of the Peak. It's peppered with Neolithic and Bronze age remains. Somewhat featureless in places - but quite atmospheric.
 

brownmane

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Yup. I tend to think that people split into two basic groups when it comes to stuff like this: 'head under the covers' / 'up and at it - need to know what that is.' I'm the latter; although, in this case, I might not charge out of the tent with nothing but a torch to defend myself with - but I definitely wouldn't be shutting myself down.

That said, I always have silicon earplugs on hand for hotels, and sometimes train journeys - things like that. Bloody lifesavers (other people's lives, that is).

The Peak District has a fair smattering of supposed big cat sightings. When my brother first left the army he worked the roads for a while - one old boy he grafted with swore blind that he'd actually been attacked, and had the lower parts of his coveralls shredded, by a big cat when working somewhere up on the hills.

Big Moor - where the events in #1805 take place - is an isolated bit of the Peak. It's peppered with Neolithic and Bronze age remains. Somewhat featureless in places - but quite atmospheric.
I too wear earplugs for sleep, but if (I laugh at this as I don't do camping:)), if I was outside, in the dark, in a wee tent, and heard noises that I couldn't identify, earplugs are not the first nor last thing I'd be reaching for. I also would not even be concerned with sleep. My eyes in the dark 00.
 

catseye

Old lady trouser-smell with yesterday's knickers
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York
I too wear earplugs for sleep, but if (I laugh at this as I don't do camping:)), if I was outside, in the dark, in a wee tent, and heard noises that I couldn't identify, earplugs are not the first nor last thing I'd be reaching for. I also would not even be concerned with sleep. My eyes in the dark 00.
I think it would depend where I was. In a tent somewhere in the UK, yeah, I'm pretty much coming down on the side of it being something annoying in the wildlife department. However if I was in Oz or the USA I'd be far more wary of it being something that might eat me.
 

brownmane

off kilter
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I think it would depend where I was. In a tent somewhere in the UK, yeah, I'm pretty much coming down on the side of it being something annoying in the wildlife department. However if I was in Oz or the USA I'd be far more wary of it being something that might eat me.
Does the UK, in general not have predatory animals that might attack humans? Just in the area that I live, we can have coyotes, the odd, out of place, black bear, bobcats, wolves (again not common, but possible). Particularly if you are camping in a more northern (3-5 hours drive from me) areas there is definitely a good chance of encountering a black bear.
 

hunck

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Hobbs End
Does the UK, in general not have predatory animals that might attack humans? Just in the area that I live, we can have coyotes, the odd, out of place, black bear, bobcats, wolves (again not common, but possible). Particularly if you are camping in a more northern (3-5 hours drive from me) areas there is definitely a good chance of encountering a black bear.
No we don’t have any predators likely to attack people. The largest is probably the badger & I’ve yet to hear of a badger attack.
 

EnolaGaia

I knew the job was dangerous when I took it ...
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No we don’t have any predators likely to attack people. The largest is probably the badger & I’ve yet to hear of a badger attack.

Just for the record - an exception to the rule ... There was the 2003 case of Boris the rampaging badger, who aggressively attacked and injured multiple people over the course of 2 days. However, Boris was a hand-reared badger (not a wild one).
Rampaging badger's reign of terror

A badger named Boris went on a two-day rampage, attacking five people and leaving one man needing surgery for his bites, it emerged yesterday.

He launched his attacks in Evesham, Worcestershire, after being set free from a wildlife park. His final victim, Michael Fitzgerald, 67, suffered the most serious injuries. He was transferred to a hospital in Birmingham and needed two skin graft operations to wounds on his forearm and legs.

During Boris's reign of terror, he also forced two police officers who were trying to catch him to retreat to the safety of their patrol car.

Badger experts say Boris had been inappropriately hand-reared and had too much contact with humans. Consequently, he had lost his natural fear of people - attacking them instead of running away. ...
FULL STORY: https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2003/may/14/helencarter
 

Paul_Exeter

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No we don’t have any predators likely to attack people. The largest is probably the badger & I’ve yet to hear of a badger attack.
I suppose you could stretch the argument to include zoo and wildlife park animals, in which case it is only wire that is keeping us safe from lions other big cats, some of which may escape from time to time.

To be honest, the rat has proven the deadliest wild mammal.
 

SimonBurchell

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Somewhere in the labyrinth
True, There have been reports of deer carcasses found up tress etc:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/gloucestershi...31/possible_big_cat_kill_feature.shtml?page=2

But perhaps deer are hard work whereas sheep are hardly penned into fields ready for dinner
I would put it down to no-one keeping a count of wild deer - farmers notice when their sheep get mauled. No-one really notices deer carcasses unless it's something they hit with their car. I mentioned upthread somewhere that some years ago we had mauled deer turning up locally, but only noticed because a carcass was found in someone's garden. There's lots of woods around here, and any deer carcass dragged off into a thicket will never be found. There was a sad case some years ago of a local man going missing - he had gone into a thicket and committed suicide. His remains were only found a considerable time later when someone's dog came running up to its owner with a human legbone in its jaws, prompting the police search that found his skeleton deep in the undergrowth.
 

hunck

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Just for the record - an exception to the rule ... There was the 2003 case of Boris the rampaging badger, who aggressively attacked and injured multiple people over the course of 2 days. However, Boris was a hand-reared badger (not a wild one).

FULL STORY: https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2003/may/14/helencarter
I’m wearing my orthopaedic shoes so I stand corrected. Never trust a creature named Boris.
 

Spookdaddy

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...Big Moor - where the events in #1805 take place - is an isolated bit of the Peak. It's peppered with Neolithic and Bronze age remains. Somewhat featureless in places - but quite atmospheric.

Just out of interest I checked the relevant bits of David Clarke's excellent Supernatural Peak District this morning. The location of the very first ABC sighting that gets a mention is Bradfield Dale (the one near the Dale Dyke Reservoir - there are two Bradfield Dales in the Peak) - which is only separated from Big Moor by (very) roughly nine miles/fifteen klicks, as the crow flies, in a vaguely northerly direction.

Too much time separates the incidents involved for any implication that this may be the same animal, and that wasn’t really the point of my search. What actually caught my eye is that the two encounters can be connected to each other and several more (Edale, Ollersett Moor, Burbage Edge, Bleaklow, etc) geographically. The Peak District is generally high ground, but the White Edge/Big Moor region of the eastern moor area is situated on a panhandle of bleak and isolated ground which is higher still, and spreads north before joining a broader area of highland that covers an area ranging from the high ground over Sheffield in the east, to Hayfield in the west. You could traverse this whole area and access the Pennine spine while barely crossing a road, and easily avoiding human habitation. Although there are other sightings on the lower ground of the White Peak (still relatively high for the UK) many are within spitting distance of that higher ground. This constitutes an area which would comfortably absorb the average range of a many species of large cat (one objection often raised in other sightings is the lack of potential range).

I am not at all sure what I think about ABCs - and that's really just an observation; the only geographical connection may be that such landscapes actively encourage us to believe in strange encounters.
 
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marhawkman

Justified & Ancient
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Nov 2, 2019
Messages
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Just out of interest I checked the relevant bits of David Clarke's excellent Supernatural Peak District this morning. The location of the very first ABC sighting that gets a mention is Bradfield Dale (the one near the Dale Dyke Reservoir - there are two Bradfield Dales in the Peak) - which is only separated from Big Moor by (very) roughly nine miles/fifteen klicks, as the crow flies, in a vaguely northerly direction.

Too much time separates the incidents involved for any implication that this may be the same animal, and that wasn’t really the point of my search. What actually caught my eye is that the two encounters can be connected to each other and several more (Edale, Ollersett Moor, Burbage Edge, Bleaklow, etc) geographically. The Peak District is generally high ground, but the White Edge/Big Moor region of the eastern moor area is situated on a panhandle of bleak and isolated ground which is higher still, and spreads north before joining a broader area of highland that covers an area ranging from the high ground over Sheffield in the east, to Hayfield in the west. You could traverse this whole area and access the Pennine spine while barely crossing a road, and easily avoiding human habitation. Although there are other sightings on the lower ground of the White Peak (still relatively high for the UK) many are within spitting distance of that higher ground. This constitutes an area which would comfortably absorb the average range of a many species of large cat (one objection often raised in other sightings is the lack of potential range).

I am not at all sure what I think about ABCs - and that's really just an observation; the only geographical connection may be that such landscapes actively encourage us to believe in strange encounters.
That last point reminds me of a conversation I had with a Brit about why Americans are more into the idea of nature being scary and dangerous. Knowing that you can't just run and get help in a few minutes makes everything more scary, which of course includes animals. knowing you're alone and might die before you can get help is going to make what would otherwise be calm and peaceful tense and frightening.
 

Spookdaddy

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...honestly... this doesn't look THAt big to me... It's possible the shape is most of the body of the cat, and looking closely, I think it is.
...
I suspect those facing blocks are about a foot long(and six inches high), and if so... that'd make this ... a housecat...

I did a little bit of stalking myself early this morning – courtesy of Google Earth. I think this is a fair guess at the location where said encounter allegedly occurred:

Cheshire Cat copy.jpg


The site (I'm pretty positive) is a raised area south of the market, overlooking Hamilton Place, towards its junction with Trinity Street (which you can't see on the 'cat' photograph - although you can see the railings at the roadside edge of the raised platform). The 'lean' on the above image - common to top down visuals on Google Earth - compounded by the effect of perspective on the much taller building at right, makes the two buildings at top look much closer than they are. The POV is directed SSW. The 60's/70's block with the distinctive stairwell tower in the background is the RCCG Calvary Love City (a church, somewhat disappointingly - not a lap dancing club, despite the name).

The building in question is the upper level of a gym. Looking at the widow layout, the angled corner, and the view at right, there’s a very good chance that image below is an internal to external view of the room we see the outer skin of:

Club motivation.jpg


It's a very built up area, and clearly it's also a generally very busy one - I'd be astounded if an errant and unfamiliar animal of large size would go unnoticed. (And it also seems to be a fair stroll from any boozers - so the alleged witness was on quite a piss mission if he ended up there.)
 
Last edited:

marhawkman

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Messages
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I did a little bit of stalking myself early this morning – courtesy of Google Earth. I think this is a fair guess at the location where said encounter allegedly occurred:

View attachment 59440

The site (I'm pretty positive) is a raised area south of the market, overlooking Hamilton Place, towards its junction with Trinity Street (which you can't see on the 'cat' photograph - although you can see the railings at the roadside edge of the raised platform). The 'lean' on the above image - common to top down visuals on Google Earth - compounded by the effect of perspective on the much taller building at right, makes the two buildings at top look much closer than they are. The POV is directed SSW. The 60's/70's block with the distinctive stairwell tower in the background is the RCCG Calvary Love City (a church, somewhat disappointingly - not a lap dancing club, despite the name).

The building in question is the upper level of a gym. Looking at the widow layout, the angled corner, and the view at right, there’s a very good chance that image below is an internal to external view of the room we see the outer skin of:

View attachment 59437

It's a very built up area, and clearly it's also a generally very busy one - I'd be astounded if an errant and unfamiliar animal of large size would go unnoticed. (And it also seems to be a fair stroll from any boozers - so the alleged witness was on quite a piss mission if he ended up there.)
yeah, not a location I'd expect to see a large cat... house cats though? definitely.
 

ramonmercado

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Eblana
I reckon they'll eat the farmer and become Ukrainian ABCs.

An Indian-born doctor who was holed up in a basement at home in war-torn Ukraine with his pet big cats for months says he is now separated from his animals.

After the war began earlier this year, Gidikumar Patil, who is single, had pledged he would not leave his home without his pets. He lived and worked as an orthopaedic doctor in a hospital in Svavtove, a small town in Severodonetsk, located in the Luhansk region of eastern Ukraine.

Mr Patil, who is 42 and an Ukrainian citizen since 2016, bought the animals from a zoo in the capital, Kyiv, nearly two years ago. The male cat is a 24-month-old "lepjag", a rare hybrid of a male leopard and a female jaguar, while the female, a black panther, is 14 months old.

Two weeks ago, Mr Patil ran out of money and crossed over into Poland to earn a living so he could keep feeding his cats. The hospital where he worked was shut early in the war and has now been destroyed in a bomb attack, as Ukrainian forces have made rapid gains and have recaptured territory in the Russian-occupied region.


Now Mr Patil is living in a dormitory in a hostel in Warsaw with other Ukrainian refugees, looking to earn a living and anxious about the fate of his cats.

He says the internet in Svavtove stopped working two weeks ago, and he is checking on his cats daily by calling up a local farmer who is taking care of them. ...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-63085345
 

Paul_Exeter

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Jan 9, 2012
Messages
1,916
Just out of interest I checked the relevant bits of David Clarke's excellent Supernatural Peak District this morning. The location of the very first ABC sighting that gets a mention is Bradfield Dale (the one near the Dale Dyke Reservoir - there are two Bradfield Dales in the Peak) - which is only separated from Big Moor by (very) roughly nine miles/fifteen klicks, as the crow flies, in a vaguely northerly direction.

Too much time separates the incidents involved for any implication that this may be the same animal, and that wasn’t really the point of my search. What actually caught my eye is that the two encounters can be connected to each other and several more (Edale, Ollersett Moor, Burbage Edge, Bleaklow, etc) geographically. The Peak District is generally high ground, but the White Edge/Big Moor region of the eastern moor area is situated on a panhandle of bleak and isolated ground which is higher still, and spreads north before joining a broader area of highland that covers an area ranging from the high ground over Sheffield in the east, to Hayfield in the west. You could traverse this whole area and access the Pennine spine while barely crossing a road, and easily avoiding human habitation. Although there are other sightings on the lower ground of the White Peak (still relatively high for the UK) many are within spitting distance of that higher ground. This constitutes an area which would comfortably absorb the average range of a many species of large cat (one objection often raised in other sightings is the lack of potential range).

I am not at all sure what I think about ABCs - and that's really just an observation; the only geographical connection may be that such landscapes actively encourage us to believe in strange encounters.
Good post. Likewise the path the 1980s Exmoor 'beast' took over a period of months from the remote, elevated Barle valley down to Knowstone Moor (itself over 800 feet above sea level). it is all rugged farmland given over to mostly sheep farming interspersed with wooded river valleys. There are herds of deer and plenty of game. Ideal big cat territory with shelter, running water, food and very few humans.
 

marhawkman

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Nov 2, 2019
Messages
1,121
I reckon they'll eat the farmer and become Ukrainian ABCs.

An Indian-born doctor who was holed up in a basement at home in war-torn Ukraine with his pet big cats for months says he is now separated from his animals.

After the war began earlier this year, Gidikumar Patil, who is single, had pledged he would not leave his home without his pets. He lived and worked as an orthopaedic doctor in a hospital in Svavtove, a small town in Severodonetsk, located in the Luhansk region of eastern Ukraine.

Mr Patil, who is 42 and an Ukrainian citizen since 2016, bought the animals from a zoo in the capital, Kyiv, nearly two years ago. The male cat is a 24-month-old "lepjag", a rare hybrid of a male leopard and a female jaguar, while the female, a black panther, is 14 months old.

Two weeks ago, Mr Patil ran out of money and crossed over into Poland to earn a living so he could keep feeding his cats. The hospital where he worked was shut early in the war and has now been destroyed in a bomb attack, as Ukrainian forces have made rapid gains and have recaptured territory in the Russian-occupied region.


Now Mr Patil is living in a dormitory in a hostel in Warsaw with other Ukrainian refugees, looking to earn a living and anxious about the fate of his cats.

He says the internet in Svavtove stopped working two weeks ago, and he is checking on his cats daily by calling up a local farmer who is taking care of them. ...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-63085345
um... yeah... that could result in... more cats than the farmer wants to deal with. :p baby (possibly black) leopards, yeah....

Or maybe they get loose and Russian soldiers shoot them.... hard to say.
 

Mouldy13

Ephemeral Spectre
Joined
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Messages
304
I'm always puzzled that the vast majority (it seems to me) of big cat sightings are of black cats. Now I accept that some and maybe most are misidentifications of large black toms. But the others? given the rarity of melanistic big cats in the wild why the preponderance of black ABC sightings?
 

hunck

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Hobbs End
I'm always puzzled that the vast majority (it seems to me) of big cat sightings are of black cats. Now I accept that some and maybe most are misidentifications of large black toms. But the others? given the rarity of melanistic big cats in the wild why the preponderance of black ABC sightings?
The most obvious/likely reason as you’ve mentioned is there's a lot of domestic black cats around & this is what people are actually seeing. Not Big Cats at all.

As you said, black big cats are rare. It seems for example that no black cougar has ever been documented in the US.
 

brownmane

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https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co...d-animal-at-peak-district-beauty-spot-3865280

One from Yorkshire edit:. Peak District, but is reported in Yorkshire post
This is interesting. The cat's size can be compared with the sheep. It's certainly not your regular kitty cat.

I am curious as to why the sheep are just lying around? A cat is in the area. Sheep are prey animals. Why are they not at least standing and gathered together and watching the animal? I don't know sheep, but most prey animals, I would think, would at least be standing and watching. I would be ready to run - like the guys who took the video and kept their distance.
 
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