Alien Big Cats ('ABCs')

[catseye]

XL Bullies are the in vogue “Prestige” must have animal,easily available and instagrammable.Puma/leopard not so

I think you might be thinking of a very different demographic...

 

[Druk]

I think you might be thinking of a very different demographic...

I am thinking of a criminal fraternity,what schism of society was your reference with the “underground clubs”?

 

[catseye]

I am thinking of a criminal fraternity,what schism of society was your reference with the “underground clubs”?

Not necessarily criminal, but those with too much money to care particularly for social norms. And yes, they exist.

 

[Druk]

Not necessarily criminal, but those with too much money to care particularly for social norms. And yes, they exist.

I know people with real money,but I am interested in the underground clubs you hinted at,please elaborate?

 

[catseye]

I know people with real money,but I am interested in the underground clubs you hinted at,please elaborate?

In what way? I don't have their addresses. People like this gravitate together.

 

[Druk]

In what way?

What are the clubs you refer to,what’s the purpose,I belong to an archery club,we shoot bows,you referred to clandestine underground clubs whats their cohesive interest?

 

[catseye]

What are the clubs you refer to,what’s the purpose,I belong to an archery club,we shoot bows,you referred to clandestine underground clubs whats their cohesive interest?

Showing off.

 

[Druk]

Showing off.

So there’s no proof?Its just your theory that people buy big cats,release them for a while,track them,recapture them repeat ad nauseam till the novelty wears off and the participants move on to the next novelty?

 

[Mythopoeika]

So there’s no proof?Its just your theory that people buy big cats,release them for a while,track them,recapture them repeat ad nauseam till the novelty wears off and the participants move on to the next novelty?

I think Catseye was just putting an idea out there, rather than saying she knows about some people who do this for shits and giggles.

 

[catseye]

So there’s no proof?Its just your theory that people buy big cats,release them for a while,track them,recapture them repeat ad nauseam till the novelty wears off and the participants move on to the next novelty?

Yes? That's why I said it was just musings - I'm not offering this as a definitive answer to ABCs, just positing that this might be what happens in some cases? You seem to be taking this very personally, Druk.

 

[brownmane]

We have had people here who've had large captive cats. Tigers specifically. I may have already mentioned this, but several years ago there was a guy who owned several tigers only a few miles from my mom.

People like him, move to municipalities that have no exotic pets bylaws in place. Ontario has no laws regarding this, making it a piecework of bylaws and a municipality's headache in dealing with these people. Oh, did I need to say that these people have money?

Anyway, it would not be unusual for someone to report that they'd seen one of his tigers sitting in the roadside ditch in front of his property. So obviously the cat would somehow get out and eventually he would get it back into its exclosure. People were very concerned for their safety.

Despite his assurances about how they were quite safe in their enclosure blah, blah, blah. He was killed by one of them.

So I understand where @catseye is going with this. Here, they don't have to own them in secret; they only have to find municipalities with no exotic pet bylaws. Happens all of the time.

Also, though they aren't known to be in my region, southern Ontario, people have reported seeing the odd cougar. I tend to believe the sightings. It is very possible, though probably unlikely for this area.

https://www.hww.ca/en/wildlife/mammals/cougar-1.html

"In Canada, the distribution of what was once thought to be a distinct subspecies, Felis concolor couguar Kerr, has generated much controversy. During the last century, cougars have been reported in Ontario, Quebec, New Brunswick, and Nova Scotia; in fact, more than 1000 sightings have been reported since 1949 in Nova Scotia and New Brunswick alone. However, some of the sightings have proved to be cougars from southern areas that had likely escaped or been released from captivity. There is little physical evidence, such as road kills or scats, that cougars have been present in eastern Canada since the nineteenth century."

 

[Tunn11]

IIRC it's Neil Arnold in one of his books who hints at illegally kept big cats in Kent, hardly the least populated county and this after the Dangerous animals act. Not saying they are let out, but escapes happen.

I've stumbled across a very suspicious meeting in woods in North Kent when some of us were helping a friend search for a missing moggy. (They weren't hostile but very guarded, had a lot of pit bull type dogs in cages, were setting up a "ring" arrangement and pointed out that the cat wouldn't have come near the dogs which were making quite a racket. The cat did turn up later btw) I think that there are still some weirdos who like to organise dog fights, maybe with illegal breeds and there are probably still big cats being kept illegally in some parts of Britain.

Arnold also devotes a chapter in Mystery Animal of The British Isles: London, to people buying lion cubs at Harrods pre the act. Stupid as it was, if you had the money then you could buy almost what you liked with no questions asked. Now you have to prove how responsible you are to buy a moggy. How many big cats and other animals were turfed out when the act came into force no one knows. Surprisingly I don't recall any stories of bodies being found or owners nervously shooing Bhageera back into the woods.

I've also heard keepers saying that an escaped animal will return to it's cage if it gets hungry as it represents a known source of food - but how much of that is true and how much is a sop to a worried public I wouldn't know. However I'd guess these animals have a relationship with their keepers that animals kept in secret by amateurs would not have.

 

[Kondoru]

Im not a person who believes such conspiracies; it would get out, wouldnt it? Hard to keep secrets?

But do the RSPCA have records?

 

[Druk]

Yes? That's why I said it was just musings - I'm not offering this as a definitive answer to ABCs, just positing that this might be what happens in some cases? You seem to be taking this very personally, Druk.

Nope,not taking it personally at all,just wanted to get to the bottom of one of the more outlandish ABC theories I have heard

 

[catseye]

Nope,not taking it personally at all,just wanted to get to the bottom of one of the more outlandish ABC theories I have heard

Oh I am completely one for the outlandish theories! As they say, 'when you've eliminated the possible....'

 

[Druk]

We have had people here who've had large captive cats. Tigers specifically. I may have already mentioned this, but several years ago there was a guy who owned several tigers only a few miles from my mom.

People like him, move to municipalities that have no exotic pets bylaws in place. Ontario has no laws regarding this, making it a piecework of bylaws and a municipality's headache in dealing with these people. Oh, did I need to say that these people have money?

Anyway, it would not be unusual for someone to report that they'd seen one of his tigers sitting in the roadside ditch in front of his property. So obviously the cat would somehow get out and eventually he would get it back into its exclosure. People were very concerned for their safety.

Despite his assurances about how they were quite safe in their enclosure blah, blah, blah. He was killed by one of them.

So I understand where @catseye is going with this. Here, they don't have to own them in secret; they only have to find municipalities with no exotic pet bylaws. Happens all of the time.

Also, though they aren't known to be in my region, southern Ontario, people have reported seeing the odd cougar. I tend to believe the sightings. It is very possible, though probably unlikely for this area.

https://www.hww.ca/en/wildlife/mammals/cougar-1.html

"In Canada, the distribution of what was once thought to be a distinct subspecies, Felis concolor couguar Kerr, has generated much controversy. During the last century, cougars have been reported in Ontario, Quebec, New Brunswick, and Nova Scotia; in fact, more than 1000 sightings have been reported since 1949 in Nova Scotia and New Brunswick alone. However, some of the sightings have proved to be cougars from southern areas that had likely escaped or been released from captivity. There is little physical evidence, such as road kills or scats, that cougars have been present in eastern Canada since the nineteenth century."

Cougars here the odd nomad I can believe,I was in Algonquin park last week,very easy for a cat to remain unseen here,Ontario is more than four times the size of the uk with a population far smaller,places like thunder bay region you could release a herd of Tyrannosaurus rex and never see them again.

 

[catseye]

Cougars here the odd nomad I can believe,I was in Algonquin park last week,very easy for a cat to remain unseen here,Ontario is more than four times the size of the uk with a population far smaller,places like thunder bay region you could release a herd of Tyrannosaurus rex and never see them again.

I think this is the issue. The UK is SO small, that any kind of breeding population of large cats would be almost impossible to remain wild without being detected. And yet...

 

[Druk]

I think this is the issue. The UK is SO small, that any kind of breeding population of large cats would be almost impossible to remain wild without being detected. And yet...

Breeding pop of ABC’s in the UK would be as incestuous as a redneck community and there would certainly be roadkill evidence.

 

[catseye]

Breeding pop of ABC’s in the UK would be as incestuous as a redneck community and there would certainly be roadkill evidence.

And yet people are seeing them. Ok, most of the sightings are of domestic moggies, or misperceptions of size, but what about the few that aren't?

 

[Druk]

And yet people are seeing them. Ok, most of the sightings are of domestic moggies, or misperceptions of size, but what about the few that aren't?

That’s the puzzle,people like Danny Ninehams nephew who had some bramble scratches and said it was a leopard attack or Jonathon McGowan who sees cats often,seen several litters of cubs and has had aliens visit him in his bedroom,plus was stalked by a mountain lion in Dorset recently are obviously confused,but is there any genuine 100% irrefutable proof?

 

[catseye]

That’s the puzzle,people like Danny Ninehams nephew who had some bramble scratches and said it was a leopard attack or Jonathon McGowan who sees cats often,seen several litters of cubs and has had aliens visit him in his bedroom,plus was stalked by a mountain lion in Dorset recently are obviously confused,but is there any genuine 100% irrefutable proof?

I think one or two pieces of good proof exist, but not enough to say there are loads of ABCs wandering the countryside at will. But then again, there's no irrefutable proof for ghosts, or UFOs either, but people continue to see them.

 

[Druk]

I think one or two pieces of good proof exist, but not enough to say there are loads of ABCs wandering the countryside at will. But then again, there's no irrefutable proof for ghosts, or UFOs either, but people continue to see them.

Cats,please show me the proof,however the DNA collected by dragonfly films wasn’t collected under scientific conditions and they had an agenda,the prominence of the cat pics “found” and their Nessie thermal footage,I have no faith in them.

 

[catseye]

Cats,please show me the proof,however the DNA collected by dragonfly films wasn’t collected under scientific conditions and they had an agenda,the prominence of the cat pics “found” and their Nessie thermal footage,I have no faith in them.

Well, off the top of my head there's this https://www.shropshirestar.com/news/2015/01/12/big-cats-in-shropshire-a-tall-tale-or-serious-threat/

When in 1989 the body of a Jungle cat was found near Ludlow (it's near the bottom of that page, with a photograph). I think the increased availability of large-breed cats (like the Jungle Cat, Maine Coon, Norwegian Forest Cat) as pets is increasing the sightings, and these may well be cross breeding with feral moggies to give rise to cats that are larger than your average 'pet', but that live wild.

 

[Druk]

Well, off the top of my head there's this https://www.shropshirestar.com/news/2015/01/12/big-cats-in-shropshire-a-tall-tale-or-serious-threat/

When in 1989 the body of a Jungle cat was found near Ludlow (it's near the bottom of that page, with a photograph). I think the increased availability of large-breed cats (like the Jungle Cat, Maine Coon, Norwegian Forest Cat) as pets is increasing the sightings, and these may well be cross breeding with feral moggies to give rise to cats that are larger than your average 'pet', but that live wild.

Jungle cat doesn’t fall under the definition of big cat sadly,I am imagining more leopard or puma as these are the ones normally reported?

 

[Tunn11]

IMHO there have been some fairly convincing sightings as well as animal kills and one woman who had a fairly stout jacket pretty well mauled. However even if genuine they don't offer evidence of a breeding population only an escapee.
Feral moggies can be nasty little buggers and I wonder whether one of these, defending kittens or something might cause a witness to overestimate what they were seeing if they were on the receiving end of warning?

 

[catseye]

IMHO there have been some fairly convincing sightings as well as animal kills and one woman who had a fairly stout jacket pretty well mauled. However even if genuine they don't offer evidence of a breeding population only an escapee.
Feral moggies can be nasty little buggers and I wonder whether one of these, defending kittens or something might cause a witness to overestimate what they were seeing if they were on the receiving end of warning?

I think you're right, but I would have to ask, escaping from where?

 

[Druk]

I think you're right, but I would have to ask, escaping from where?

Good question.

 

[catseye]

Have we come back round to my underground men and their mysterious captive cats again?

 

[Druk]

Have we come back round to my underground men and their mysterious captive cats again?

Underground men are troglodytes so no,that’s a different discussion,plus that theory is yours and yours alone,we need to get to the bottom of this.

 

[brownmane]

Well, off the top of my head there's this https://www.shropshirestar.com/news/2015/01/12/big-cats-in-shropshire-a-tall-tale-or-serious-threat/

When in 1989 the body of a Jungle cat was found near Ludlow (it's near the bottom of that page, with a photograph). I think the increased availability of large-breed cats (like the Jungle Cat, Maine Coon, Norwegian Forest Cat) as pets is increasing the sightings, and these may well be cross breeding with feral moggies to give rise to cats that are larger than your average 'pet', but that live wild.

That one pic, in the link, of the large black cat is certainly clear. Unless the cat is sitting on the rail, it is big.

And, yes, even in the attacks mentioned in the article, where are these animals coming from?

Extra question: in the same article it does mention that people used to have captive lions as pets. If the theory goes, why are there not lion sightings as well? Why the "black panther"? Lions would definitely be distinctive.