Aliens & Evilness

[C.O.T.]

from Quatermass and the pit.
Hi, i would summit a topic, and show our idea about it, is about alien life and evilness.
It has been pointed by many scientist lately, that maybe we should be more carefull on triying to contact with outer alien civilizations, cause it could be dangerous.
In COT we think that alien civilizations shall to be evil on a very huge proportion, that idea arises not by simply pesimism but by the observation of our civilizations , and the dynamics of biology here on earth, relations trend to be ruled by something that we call the psycopatic structure, that is the tendency from the most evils to take power and from the common individuals to support that dinamic, that arises not by ideology, but by the dinamics of biology itself, so...on other planets would be the same.
What do you think?

 

[Nosmo King]

from Quatermass and the pit.
Hi, i would summit a topic, and show our idea about it, is about alien life and evilness.
It has been pointed by many scientist lately, that maybe we should be more carefull on triying to contact with outer alien civilizations, cause it could be dangerous.
In COT we think that alien civilizations shall to be evil on a very huge proportion, that idea arises not by simply pesimism but by the observation of our civilizations , and the dynamics of biology here on earth, relations trend to be ruled by something that we call the psycopatic structure, that is the tendency from the most evils to take power and from the common individuals to support that dinamic, that arises not by ideology, but by the dinamics of biology itself, so...on other planets would be the same.
What do you think?

I think its dangerous to assume other worldly civilations will be as sadistic, destructive and barbaric as the human race.
If, as many believe, earth has been and is beimg visited by alien lifeforms of advanced civilizations, then they have not been agressive or destructive at all, in fact they have actively avoided confontation, even when engaged by terrestrial aircraft.

 

[C.O.T.]

But why human civilizations are "sadistic, destructive and barbaric"?, sure that if it have happened in any time and in any place it has not been simply by chance.

 

[JamesWhitehead]

What do you think?

I would expect any such discussion to be informed by the works of creative writers, notably H. G. Wells. The opening of The War of the Worlds, 1897, has resonated throughout a very long and dark century.

It was not so much pure evil as a chilly, scientific curiosity, which Wells attributed to the Martian invaders, presaging Things to Come, from our own planet first. Darwin had given many the chills and Eugenics was on the horizon; the impact of culture upon culture was already a matter of record. It was prescient of Wells to write his tale in the year of Queen Victoria's Diamond Jubilee.

 

[feinman]

Many have argued that any alien civilization that could get it together and not destroy itself in the process of developing the technology to leave their home would be peaceful. I personally don't believe in good or evil, but the actions of our observers --as Souleater has mentioned are basically peaceful as far as we know. There is no Prime Directive though --the objects have gone so far as to make symbolic appearances at military test sites and messed with our nuclear weapons, to make a point. The actions of the observers are designed not to cause a tipping point, but to create an ongoing surveillance operation and maintains a relationship with us through a type of algorithmic asymmetric contact.
If you want real evil, look in the mirror at a member of a species that treats the other animals on the planet as worthless unless they have value to humans, and created a huge environmental disaster, all the while believing we are some kind of divine species --for shame
You want primitive? Take a look at all of the times we have shot at these devices going way back. It if is weird and unusual... Shoot at it!! the thing that I think might be closest to evil is deliberately misleading people when you know the truth, and there is a lot of that here on Earth.

 

[C.O.T.]

From the point of view of the contactology, there are a lot of testimony of evil conduct, maybe are no real, ...maybe,... if real are not from alien origin...yes maybe.
I think that the contactology aproach is too subjetive for a huge conceptual problem like this. As feinman as pointed, the problem of alien evilness take us to the problem of evilness in nature at all !!!. To keep the problem still manageable, think that is far better to take the exobiology aproach: From the point of view of biology, would be another specie raised from the scratch on other planet, be as evil as this one is? I think that we have the answer and the answer is yes.

 

[catseye]

I think part of the problem of the 'evilness of humans' is that we are a species who evolved to have a large 'range' - to travel about our territories actively hunting our food. But almost within living memory we've become sedentary, and we're now a species crowded into not enough space. We no longer hunt our food, we just pop to the shops. So we've got too much energy, in bodies designed for activity and space, whilst cramped cheek by jowl. Our outlet is in aggression.

I don't think 'evil' is born into any species. But, by heck, it can certainly come out, when conditions are right.

 

[Peripart]

But why human civilizations are "sadistic, destructive and barbaric"?, sure that if it have happened in any time and in any place it has not been simply by chance.

But are we, as a whole? I'd say not really, and certainly not enough to suggest that any theoretical alien civilisation would be "sadistic, destructive and barbaric" too.

The very fact that humans have come up with words with strong negative connotations for traits such as sadism, destructiveness or barbarism surely suggests that the majority of us aren't that way inclined?

 

[stu neville]

personally don't believe in good or evil, but the actions of our observers --as Souleater has mentioned are basically peaceful as far as we know.

If that's what they actually are. Time to invoke Occam: it's fine to speculate as to their nature, but you can't then start speculating on their motives without confirmation that this is what they are.

To keep the problem still manageable, think that is far better to take the exobiology aproach: From the point of view of biology, would be another specie raised from the scratch on other planet, be as evil as this one is? I think that we have the answer and the answer is yes.

Evil is an entirely subjective concept, though. What we as individuals, communities, nations, or even a race may deem to be evil may not be to another race at all. You only have to look at world cuisine to see the sheer variation in what different nations view as a delicacy, or adjacent countries who find their neighbours' laws and practices "evil", and we're all the same species on the same planet. Our geo-centric approach to aliens (they invariably have two arms, two legs and a head for a start) means we project our own shortcomings onto "others", so we really can't start ascribing values to their behaviour.

 

[feinman]

I agree with Souleater --if they wanted to destroy us, this would be the wrong way to go about it, and they have had the opportunity many times in the past, having been over basically most of our military facilities already and shown us that our jets and other technology are like toys to them. All they would have to do is release some kind of weapon that would sterilize everyone and release some viruses --or even do things we can't conceive of (The other animals excepting cats and dogs would LOVE this). Over decades perhaps centuries of observation, I think their behavior toward us is very similar to how we would treat an "inferior" species that we would study. In fact they often seem to take pains to be very careful with us.
I am a true believer now. I may have lost my objectivity, like many of those who have had a close up look at these devices. Occam's razor for me means that they would be simply ET, from another planet, etc., as may scientists have thought about aliens in the past. They might be something even stranger! But to me they really do seem like some kind of surveillance technology --the ultimate drones.
The problems with projecting concepts of "good" and "evil" on nature are many. The cats we love torture animals --all part of survival programming. You push someone out of the way of a car and they go and purchase a handgun an d shoot a bunch of folks.. The road to evil can be paved with good actions.
Why would "they" destroy us? We are of no threat, just interest.

 

[kamalktk]

They could be not interfering because they want to watch us destroy ourselves as it amuses them. That would be "evil" without alien invasion.

 

[feinman]

They could be not interfering because they want to watch us destroy ourselves as it amuses them. That would be "evil" without alien invasion.

When we blow it and it hits the fan --maybe they will allow it to happen as you suggest --even with all of the surveillance and other stuff. That would be unfortunate for us, and I'd hope they'd do something --if just for all of the other life on the planet that doesn't build hypersonic missiles. I find it difficult to brandish words like good an evil given that I am also a member of Homo Perniciosius

 

[pandacracker]

Why would "they" destroy us?

But are there other "Theys" out there? Are the ones you're talking about one species or several?

 

[feinman]

But are there other "Theys" out there? Are the ones you're talking about one species or several?

I'm just referring to the intelligence behind UFOs. All bets are off if you are thinking about what might be out there!
Then we have to think about larger issues like moral relativism, etc.
Life will find a way if it out there in any abundance, and nothing is sacred.. From the perspective of the Anthropic Principle, folks better hope that there are other (worse) species than ourselves out there.. Otherwise... We are it.
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...t-has-destroyed-over-80-of-wild-mammals-study
Yes I know we aren't monkeys. But close enough:

https://www.freepik.com/free-photo/girl-falling-jenga-tower_2192346.htm

 

[Nosmo King]

If you look at films like live, die, repeat, Avatar, Starship Troopers, it gives you an insight in to how we as a race would ultimately interact with an alien species that we may discover on another world, we are lucky that, if what has been observered by many on this planet as alien spacecraft, probably containing alien lifeforms, arent like us.

 

[catseye]

They could be not interfering because they want to watch us destroy ourselves as it amuses them. That would be "evil" without alien invasion.

But why would that be 'evil'? It's only evil from our viewpoint (because we would be the ones being destroyed). Any onlookers could be dispassionate, or even experimental in their watching.

 

[C.O.T.]

If you look at films like live, die, repeat, Avatar, Starship Troopers, it gives you an insight in to how we as a race would ultimately interact with an alien species that we may discover on another world, we are lucky that, if what has been observered by many on this planet as alien spacecraft, probably containing alien lifeforms, arent like us.

They would be like us, ( from the point of view of evilness), cause the human evilness dont arise from cultural forms ( thell can moderate it, its true) it arises from the dynamic of the biology itself. Evolutive selection inter especies, and selection in the own specie. As the aliens would be life forms too, thell had been shaped by the same forces that have generated what we call "evilness" here on eath.
You can try a mental experiment to know that: If other specie of earth would become a technological civilization it would be as evil as humans has been?

 

[Aether Blue]

People have struggled to define the concept of "evil" at least as long as they have been writing, and probably for much longer than that. Different religions and civilizations have arrived at varying "working definitions."

I like to define "demonic" as follows: "Using apparently magical powers without noticeable regard for the wellbeing of the subject." Some prey therefore must perceive their predators as demonic, if they just can't understand how they are being taken. Most living things on earth must see Homo Sapiens as demonic.

Under this definition, I would argue that most reports of alien encounters depict them as demonic. Is that the same as "evil?" Maybe.

To me they sound more like scientists dispassionately studying lesser life forms, or cosmic wanton boys pulling wings off of flies. Neither motivation would support all-out destruction of us earthlings, because then the research papers and wing-pulling would end as well.

 

[SimonBurchell]

I would say, thousands of years of philosophy notwithstanding, that when something with awareness of itself and the consequences of its actions intentionally causes harm to others for its own gratification, that is evil.

 

[Mythopoeika]

To me they sound more like scientists dispassionately studying lesser life forms, or cosmic wanton boys pulling wings off of flies. Neither motivation would support all-out destruction of us earthlings, because then the research papers and wing-pulling would end as well.

I think this is probably a good description of what may be happening. Either we are an experiment, or part of an experiment.
In the years to come, when humans try to become a space-faring species, we may encounter some 'issues'. I think we won't be allowed to 'leave the reservation'.

 

[dr wu]

IMHO the word 'evil' is of course a human subjective concept embedded in our religious and cultural beliefs. There is a whole Wiki page on it and even the origin of the word and its meaning is unclear. Basically it comes down to being the opposite of good.
To assume that aliens from a different culture would have the exact same concept is doubtful. We might consider their actions 'evil' from our point of view but it might have no parallel to them in their ideology.

 

[C.O.T.]

(Not related with the thread, but i'm doing some kind of psychic experiments, if someone is interested on join it, send me a private message.)

Well a concept that repeats along the thread, are variations of the concept of cultural relativism. This ideas were made to deal in antrophology with the interactions (a lot of times very disastrous) between diferent cultures on the planet. I think that this relativism is usefull but cant be the only rule to guide interactions. Whit relativism you can see the nazi Holocaust simply as a derivation from the ancient germanics cults to the clan ancestors. Is a ideological trap.
You need to build a frame bigger than your own culture to deal with such a problems.
But the idea that i was sugesting is that evilness is something deeper than a disacord of ideas, and that lies very deep on nature itself, its external to humankind.

 

[feinman]

If you are referring to a theological definition of "Evil", then in that dualistic paradigm you must contrast it with its opposite: "Good" and define both. If you associate "Good" with the concept of an omniscient, omnipotent anthropomorphic or anthropically conceived deity, and define "Evil" as it's antagonist, then you have to figure out how "Evil" crept into the situation to begin with and how it keeps causing trouble for our hominid faith in theodicy, cosmodicy and anthropodicy.

 

[C.O.T.]

article
For example look this, when we see it we perceibe it as "evil", but...it have not relation at all with any teological aproach, nor cultural clash, well, is simply materialistic, dynamics of biology developing.
We know it, but still we can perceibe it as " evilness".
Maybe is only a language problem, if we call it "parasitic relation" or more coldly " full asymmetric relation" we are still talking of the same without the need of theology or cultural concepts.
The video is interesting on other levels too. Clearly introduces the concepts of "Zombie" and "Voodoo" into the parasitic behaviors. That introduces the idea of Magic into the ecuation. Why only use technology if you càn have magic too.
The concept of aliens as developers of more advanced magic skills.

 

[Coastaljames]

What is evil?

You know Hitler thought himself a good man, right?

Plenty of others agreed with him.

 

[Nosmo King]

I think satan had a genuine grievance with god and should have taken him to an employment tribunal when he was fired and evicted