Amityville Horror: Where Do You Stand?

[MrRING]

Ed & Lorraine Warren and the Amityville Horror

After reading all the info about the Amityville Horror and it's hoax status in another thread, where does that put the Warrens, whose investigations were used in part to validate the Amityville haunting?

One of the scariest books I'v ever read was their book (called Exorcism or something like that) that detailed, among other things, a possesed Raggety Ann doll. And they seem sincere at least.

Here's a link to their website: http://www.warrens.net/

Check out their version of the Amityville hoax - they've got a different spin. I personally wonder if the death of the DeFeo's did indead cause something to occur, to a much lesser extent than in the book, and then Jay Anson and the Lutz family embellished the original, more conventional haunting into something horrible to sell the book.

And Jody, the angel/pig/demon from the film was quite scary to the ten year old me that first saw the film - I still don't like to look out of windows at night for fear of seeing red glowing pig eyes staring at me.

 

[Glensheen'sGirl~]

I'm a skeptic. I think the Warrens' story is as much a hoax as any other. I think they scaled it down to try to make it more believable.

The attorney who prosecuted Ronald DeFeo wrote a book titled High Hopes which has the opposite rendition. DeFeo tried to so an insanity/possession defense at his trial, and this book is more or less the prosecutor's case against it. I enjoyed it.

Anyway, the Warrens' story seems to be the middle ground between High Hopes and Jay Anson's book.

 

[ogopogo3]

There's also a book called THE AMITYVILLE HORROR CONSPIRACY, written by a firm believer in ghosts who felt the Lutz's story was utter crap. He spends a large part of it attacking the Warrens. There's also a long chapter involving discrepancies between the Lutz's stories and the book, even between the hardcover and paperback version.

Link

 

[tattooted]

I too found the book extremely scary, but I know that the Warrens are not seen as credible sources in most American ghost-hunting circles. The disdain may partially be envy, but there is a common perception that the Warrens are in it more for the publicity and that they tend to sensationalize their cases, rather than just letting the facts speak for themselves.

 

[river_styx]

Hasn't there been a family living in the house for a while now who haven't experienced anything at all spooky?
I have only ever seen the films and think that the second one was best out of all of them.
Although I remember hearing something about a demonic pig that never made it into the big screen adaption I never bothered to find out if that story was true or not.

 

[ogopogo3]

The people living there now have experienced absolutely nothing supernatural. They even took those trademark EYE windows out and have made them perfectly square, to discourage gawkers.

I think the street name has changed, too. Either way, that house ain't 112 Ocean Avenue anymore.

As for the movies, AMITYVILLE 1 & 2 are worth watching, and are actually quite scary, but as for the half-dozen other sequals, all crap.

 

[stu neville]

Exactly - it had all changed when I swung past, about ten years ago now. I only found it cos one of my neighbours originally came from that locale, and drew me a map! You'd have a hard job finding it, otherwise. (Didn't go there just to see the house, BTW - was visiting someone further along the coast.)

 

[fayyaad]

Sure, Stu...we believe you. j/k

Apparently, the last few (admittedly harrassed) families who've lived there since the Lutz's have all claimed that nothing spooky happens in that house. I must say, I agree with the general consensus on this thead that the Warrens are simply out to sensationalize an issue that seems to have been settled a long while ago.

 

[Anonymous]

I found out there is another book recently published on this subject. It's been written by Butch De Feo and is supposed to be the definitive version of what happened that night.

Its called "The Night The DeFeo's Died: Reinvestigating the Amityville Horror" (I think) but it's currently only available in North America.
If anyone comes across it i'd be interetested to know it it's worth spending time and money on.

 

[Glensheen'sGirl~]

Here's the Amazon link to the book.

Though it shows Ric Osuna as the author. I don't know if that's a pen name DeFeo is using or not.

I may check with my local library to see if I can borrow it. I don't really want to spend $22 on it myself.

 

[Anonymous]

You're quite right Glensheen's Girl. Ric Osuna is the author but it has been written in collaboration with DeFeo.
Let me know what you think, i'd be interested......

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry, but it's not a hoax. I have investigated the stories for years now.

The new book is pretty much a self published book and amazon.com will sell any book as long as it's submitted to them.

Ric Osuna is the webmaster of amityvillemurders.com

He was once a firm believer but then turned against the Lutz's and everyone else for some reason.
So he wrote the book, that I will refuse to read. It's supposedly extremely inaccurate and not all that interesting.
Much like Stephen Kaplan's book The Amityville Conspiracy, it's pretty much written by an author that has something against the Lutz's.

Yes, The Amityville Horror book and film elaborated and injected dramatic elements into the story but overall, I believe, and there's no reason not to believe, that there was a great paranormal presence there.

And for those who complain about nothing happening anymore, I'm kind of baffled. Not that anything happens, but that more people don't consider that it may have been a poltergeist. This is mainly my belief.

But then again, how do we know nothing happens there anymore? From what I've heard, people keep moving in and out.

By the way, check out my website on this subject (perhaps my favorite haunted house subject), I plan on updating it soon:

http://www.geocities.com/amityville112

 

[Spookyangel]

Isn't poltergeist activity meant to have a certain time scale to it anyway? Not that I'm convinced about the Amityville story, but I'm sure poltergeists don't go on forever, unlike hauntings.

 

[ogopogo3]

And for those who complain about nothing happening anymore, I'm kind of baffled. Not that anything happens, but that more people don't consider that it may have been a poltergeist. This is mainly my belief.

But then again, how do we know nothing happens there anymore? From what I've heard, people keep moving in and out.

The Lutzes themselves conveniently had their own answer to this when the sequals to the books came out. The ancient evil supposedly left the house and continued to haunt them wherever they went.

 

[Anonymous]

So he wrote the book, that I will refuse to read. It's supposedly extremely inaccurate and not all that interesting.

Very much like your website, then, which I will likewise refuse to read.

 

[Anonymous]

Like I'd care if one person refuses to visit my website or not.

Atleast I'm not rude and mean.

And yes, Ogopogo, the entity did follow them.

 

[Anonymous]

Like I'd care if one person refuses to visit my website or not.
Atleast I'm not rude and mean.

Pumpkinhead, I will slightly rephrase my message:
<biting sarcasm>Very much like your website, then, which I will likewise refuse to read.</biting sarcasm>

 

[stu neville]

Now now! Everyone has the right to express an opinion on this board.

However credulous it may be...

Stu

 

[fayyaad]

Hold on hold on....lemme see if I understand this properly.
Item 1: The Lutzes move in to 112 Ocean Ave and are haunted by an entity
Item 2: The Lutzes move out.
Item 3: The entity (for reasons of its own) follows the Lutzes and continued to haunt them (I'm going to assume that the entity was/were the murdered DeFeo's)
Item 4: The entity still haunts 112 Ocean Ave (????)

So someone please clear up my confusion and answer a few questions:
a) It is generally known that if a restless spirit haunts a location, there's a reason for it. Why would the ghosts of the murdered DeFeo's move with the Lutzes?
b) Did the entity move or stay???!?!?
c) From my research, there have been several families who have moved in and out of the house, but the reasons they moved was unwanted publicity caused by the movie. Wouldn't u think that if such goings on DID still happen, they'd want to capitalize on it? Basically it comes down to a case of their word versus yours.

Pumpkinhead: you state that there's no reason not the believe that there was a paranormal presence. Can you back that statement up? I think that there IS good reason not to believe in a paranormal presence. Fame and fortune are pretty big attractors, no matter WHAT you say. If the story brought the Lutzes money, then surely they'd want to keep it going?
Further, you state that you refuse to read Ric Osuna's book. This kind of disqualifies any objective research you do, since you're supposed to be able to look at the whole matter in a skeptical light in the first place.. "innocent until proven guilty beyond all reasonable doubt", I believe is what I'm after here. If you refuse to even take into account anything that anyone else says contrary to what you believe, could it just be that you don't want to be proven wrong? (Don't get me wrong! this is not a personal attack on you...I'm just trying to understand your point of view and see where you're coming from. Understand that we cannot credibly take what you say into account unless you can back your words up with quantifiable evidence that can be verified. Also, we cannot take what u say into account if you refuse to even consider an opposing point of view.
You also say How do we know that nothing happens there anymore. I can turn that around and ask how do we know that anything DOES? Once again it comes down to a case of your word versus theirs. I, for one, have taken a look at your website. You make a lot of claims there....but the same problem arises: you have no proof to back up your claims. How do you know that the Lutzes didn't drink? Have you personally interveiwed them? Have you heard the tapes of an interview with them? Until You have a LOT of proof to go with your claims, Pumpkinhead, it's just going to be a lot of hot air. I beleive in ghosts (heck, I've met a few!), but even so, it's going to take an awful lot of evidence for me to believe in the Amityville case.

Spooky Angel: From what I've researched about poltergeist activities, they seem to sit within a specific time frame, peak, and then fade out. The cycle will either repeat after a few years, or it goes forever. HOWEVER - There is a very big and discernable difference between poltergeist activity and demonic possession. The two don't always go side by side, but demonic possession often exhibits the symptoms of poltergeist activity.

And Annasdottir... be nice

 

[Anonymous]

I get alot of my information from Hans Holzer, and his books. If one of the greatest researchers in paranormal phenomena isn't legit, no one is.

But again, as you put it so well.... it's ones word against the other's.

So who's to say what's what?

 

[MrRING]

New Amityville Lutz Interview

ABC had an online chat with George Lutz after a Halloween retrospective on the case - transcript can be found here:

abcnews.go.com/sections/community/DailyNews/chat_amityville110102.html
Link is dead. The MIA webpage can be accessed via the Wayback Machine:
https://web.archive.org/web/2002110...ommunity/DailyNews/chat_amityville110102.html

What's interesting about the show was the phantom picture taken by the Ed & Lorranie Warren team. (I can't find a copy of it on the internet, but Lutz addresses it in the chat). It was a timed series of pictures that in one shot has a picture of a child with seemingly glowing eyes, even though investigators say there were no children in the house.

BTW, what do people think about the case in general - total hoax, a little minor haunting exaggerated for case, or completely real? I believe the inbetween story, a minor haunting probably caused by the DeFeo murders.

 

[Anonymous]

well, this site says it's a hoax (the latest update is a reply to that Lutz interview).
I haven't read it all, but I'm inclined to agree, mainly on the basis that subsequent owners of the house have never reported anything unusual.

 

[MrRING]

Well, that's what I had thought when I read the Amityville Hoax site that you mentioned. I thought it was a settled argument.

But there is another site that I found while trying to find the interview:

http://amitytruth.cjb.net/

that at least seems to throw doubt about the motives of those running the anti-Amityville Horror site.

It actually comes off as petty arguing of the type seen at comic conventions or the New Yorker, but it's amusing, and I'm not as full-bore anti-Amityville as I was when I first saw that site.

 

[MrRING]

Instead of "GET OUT" maybe the voice was saying "GET TO VACUMING"

Not a bad way to look at it really, as an incident of mass hysteria.

But, since there was the fairly recent mass murder of a single family by the other remaining family member, I could certainly see that it was more of a haunting by recently dead, terrified ghosts who were generally confused about what was going on. I think that after the Lutz's left, the spirits of the dead were able to move on.

That to me makes the most sense, although the rational idea that there could have been a funky psychadelic mold or something in the house could easily make sense too.

Does Kathy Lutz still maintain that it's true? Have any of the kids come forwardw with their story?

That darn angel pig Jody is probably the part that scared me the most in the boo and the film.

 

[Anonymous]

As the anti-Amityville site points out, the five murdered DeFeos were all found lying in their beds, in identical positions, and shot with the same unsilenced weapon. If they had all been shot by one person, why didn't two or three or four of them wake up and get out of bed when the shooting started? If true, then it's far more of a mystery than the ghostly goings-on that the Lutzes claim to have experienced.

 

[Anonymous]

No, according to the map and info on the site, they were all in exactly the same position (I think it was face down) and had apperently been shot where they lay. None of them had been drugged. Also, two of the "kids" were teenagers.
Like I said, if that info is true, then it's one heck of a mystery.

 

[Anonymous]

Well, the bloke running the site has a theory to account for it - the killing was drug-related and the de Feo kid was framed. But to find out more, you have to buy the book. Which I don't intend doing.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: New Amityville Lutz Interview

What's interesting about the show was the phantom picture taken by the Ed & Lorranie Warren team. (I can't find a copy of it on the internet, but Lutz addresses it in the chat). It was a timed series of pictures that in one shot has a picture of a child with seemingly glowing eyes, even though investigators say there were no children in the house.

I remember seeing that photo when I was very young - it must have been quite some time after the book was first published. This was on a live daytime chat show over here called 'Pebble Mill' (named after the studios from where it was broadcast). I don't recall if it was one or both Lutzes or a paranormal investigator, or someone involved in the film/book. What I do remember is this person holding the photo up to the camera. I still think of it now and again as it scared me silly, being only a little Fortean at the time.

And I didn't like the bit about Jody the pig either.

 

[Anonymous]

Hey, I know this is an old subject but I felt the need to bump it up. Someone mentioned that they find it hard to believe anything happened to the Lutz family because nothing seems to have happened to the current residents of the house.

Is it not common for a haunting to occur and leave just as quickly as it came? Have you not considered that what could have inhabited the house was a poltergeist?

Also, many residents have moved in and quickly moved out of the house since the Lutz's have been there. Death and Divorce is a common trait amongst families that have lived there since then.

 

[MrRING]

Also, if you look around, the most vehiment of the anti-Amityville sites is run by people who tried to work with George Lutz but who were fired due to various reasons, and the book used most often as proof of the conspiricy was written by a disgrunteled psychic/writer who wanted a book deal.

To bring in another fortean moment for a moment, the mainstream media took the stand that all Bigfoot sightings were faked recently because one early Bigfoot siter claimed before he died that he had faked them all. For Forteans, the case doesn't mean much but it does for mainstream media, who believe that Bigfoot has been "proven" a hoax, case closed.

In a similar sense, I think it would be wrong to read the anti-Amityville sites and take them at their word without further investigation. Of course, I don't want to be just "pro" Amityville so I want to see a fair investigation by reasonable paranormal investigators AND skeptics (maybe a full Fortean Times treatment!), not by parties too interested in financial gain if it's proven true (the Lutzs) or who have a personal grudge and want to see Amityville torn down when they can't get into the financial picture (the main anti-Amityville site)