Antikythera Mechanism

[rynner2]

This is an old interest of mine, although it doesn't seem to have been mentioned on this MB before. New ideas on old Greek mechanism.

Begins:

WHEN a Greek sponge diver called Elias Stadiatos discovered the wreck of a cargo ship off the tiny island of Antikythera in 1900, it was the statues lying on the seabed that made the greatest impression on him. He returned to the surface, removed his helmet, and gabbled that he had found a heap of dead, naked women. The ship's cargo of luxury goods also included jewellery, pottery, fine furniture, wine and bronzes dating back to the first century BC. But the most important finds proved to be a few green, corroded lumps—the last remnants of an elaborate mechanical device.

The Antikythera mechanism, as it is now known, was originally housed in a wooden box about the size of a shoebox, with dials on the outside and a complex assembly of bronze gear wheels within. X-ray photographs of the fragments, in which around 30 separate gears can be distinguished, led the late Derek Price, a science historian at Yale University, to conclude that the device was an astronomical computer capable of predicting the positions of the sun and moon in the zodiac on any given date. A new analysis, though, suggests that the device was cleverer than Price thought, and reinforces the evidence for his theory of an ancient Greek tradition of complex mechanical technology.

Michael Wright, the curator of mechanical engineering at the Science Museum in London, has based his new analysis on detailed X-rays of the mechanism using a technique called linear tomography. This involves moving an X-ray source, the film and the object being investigated relative to one another, so that only features in a particular plane come into focus. Analysis of the resulting images, carried out in conjunction with Allan Bromley, a computer scientist at Sydney University, found the exact position of each gear, and suggested that Price was wrong in several respects.

(See link for rest of article.)

Since the object was found in a shipwreck, there is also the possibility that the device was used for navigation.

 

[mejane]

Ancient clockwork?

Another interesting article

It seems likely that it was it was a navigation aid of some sort - but how and when did the ancients develop it, and why are there no more surviving examples?

The last question is fairly easy to answer, I suppose, sea-water (and sea-life) is corrosive, so if these intruments were used on ships and, eventually, all those ships sank... no more relics. But why is there no mention of such instruments in the literature of the time? (I'm assuming they're not explictily mentioned - not being a Greek scholar).

Ancient Astronauts, anyone? Or maybe we don't know as much about human history as we like to think?

Interesting stuff, rynner. I'll have to get the old brain cells out of the attic and get them working again (this could take some time - there's bats up there, you know!)

Jane.

PS haven't had chance to look at the link in your second post yet (been busy - will whinge later.)

 

[rynner2]

Drat! I started a long and intellectual response to Jane's reply, but somehow it has evaporated.

But I did like

It was the statues that frightened a Greek sponge diver named Elias Stadiatos nearly out of his wits in 1900, when his captain winched him back over the side, removed his helmet and breathing hose, and found him babbling about a "heap of dead naked women."

That brings archaeology to life!

Good article, Jane. Those ancients knew far more than we normally give them credit for. I have saved it for further study.

 

[TVgeek]

IIRC the ancient Greeks also had a method of
creating fire that burned on top of water, and
"clung" to ships that passed though it.

*edit -- I checked my Uni notes -- it burned UNDERwater
and clung to ships that passed through it!*

This formula is also completely lost to time.
(Some kind of early napalm?)

TVgeek

 

[Breakfastologist]

But why is there no mention of such instruments in the literature of the time? (I'm assuming they're not explictily mentioned - not being a Greek scholar).

Good question.

From the original article: ... tallies with ancient sources that refer to such devices. Cicero, writing in the first century BC, mentions an instrument “recently constructed by our friend Poseidonius, which at each revolution reproduces the same motions of the sun, the moon and the five planets.” Archimedes is also said to have made a small planetarium, and two such devices were said to have been rescued from Syracuse when it fell in 212BC. This reconstruction suggests such references can now be taken literally.

 

[Anonymous]

Old Gears

Yes this probably was a planetary motion simulator- not very accurate after a few years because the planets have elliptical not circular orbits, and useless for navigation but still an amazing faet of precision engineering
if the nasty christians hadn't destroyed the library at Alexandria this sort of stuff could have developed into machine tools, steam engines and Babbage calculators
we would have been on Tau Ceti by now
A very early clock is on view at Wells cathedral, from 1392
(the salisbury one is even older) The one at Wells has two jousting horsemen,and every hour one of them gets knocked almost off his horse
how many times must that poor chap been knocked down over the years?

steve b

 

[James_H]

IIRC the ancient Greeks also had a method of
creating fire that burned on top of water, and
"clung" to ships that passed though it.

*edit -- I checked my Uni notes -- it burned UNDERwater
and clung to ships that passed through it!*

This formula is also completely lost to time.
(Some kind of early napalm?)

TVgeek

Greek fire? Not known how to make now

 

[TVgeek]

Greek fire? Not known how to make now

Exactly -- no written record of how to make it, but its
use and effects are well documented! (The point being
that much of their "Technology" went unrecorded!)

TVgeek

 

[Anonymous]

IIRC the ancient Greeks also had a method of
creating fire that burned on top of water, and
"clung" to ships that passed though it.

It was invented by a Persian and used by the Byzantines, who were known as Greek, in spite of being more Roman.

 

[Anonymous]

I was woundering where a person can get photo's of the device?
Nebka

 

[TVgeek]

I was woundering where a person can get photo's of the device?
Nebka

Here you go, Nebka!

http://www.giant.net.au/users/rupert/kythera/kythera4.htm

TVgeek

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the Link TvGeek
Nebka

 

[ramonmercado]

Conference to study mystery tool
By A Correspondent



This mysterious object was found in 1901 at the site of an 80BC shipwreck off the Greek island of Antikythira. The “Antikythira mechanism” was probably used by Ancient Greeks to give the positions of stars and planets. Made of a differential turntable and interlocking wheels and cogs, its complexity presupposes a level of technology unknown until the 16th century. It will be studied at the second International Conference of Ancient Greek Technology in Athens from October 17 to 21.

Mystery Tool

 

[ramonmercado]

Ancient computer.

Ancient computer.

One of the most significant finds that gives undisputed evidence of hitherto unsuspected ancient knowledge is the so called Antikythira device ! This mysterious mechanism comprising of a series of interlocking cogs and wheels was found at the site of an ancient shipwreck just off the Greek island of Antikythira.

Straight away it became apparent that this was something extraordinary, and although heavily corroded, radiograph examination revealed the existence of a precision instrument of great complexity. A differential turn table with interlocking cogs testified to its high degree of craftsmanship. But what was it ?

At first experts dubbed it a navigational instrument, but detailed investigation revealed it to be something a good deal more complex. Certain similarities with later astronomical instruments led to it being labelled a planisphere - a calendrical device that gives the year round positions of stars and planets. Other inscriptions, unfortunately damaged, seemed to refer to zodiacal positions with a degree of accuracy that involved considerable expertise.

Important Questions.

Incredibly the wreck from which the device was salvaged dates back to nearly one hundred BC. This created an immediate stir. Such refined craftsmanship was at that time unknown, and was to remain so until the 16 th century. Now suddenly this fortuitous find raised important questions. For this kind of precision instrument to exist there must equally have existed a sophisticated method of production. But up until that moment no hint of such capability had ever been found .

Awesome achievement.

So what can we make of the Antikythira device ? Is it just an archaeological oddity - a simple aberration to the established order, or does it represent the tip of a vast treasure of unexplained ancient technology ?

In our opinion this strange instrument categorically places the technology of it's era in a completely different light. We are seeing something that should not have existed for over 1500 years, and once again we are left in awe at achievements that leap out across the void that separates our understanding of these distant ages.

But whatever the meaning and function of the Antikythira device, we must not forget that it's importance represents no more than a small gem in a large crown of strange and magnificent finds.

Computer

 

[ramonmercado]

Conference

Following the successful organisation of the 1st International Conference of Ancient Greek Technology in 1997 in Thessaloniki, the Technical Chamber of Greece, the Association of Ancient Greek Technology Studies, the Science Center and Technology Museum, in co-operation with the National Technical University and the Greek Archaeologists Association, organize the 2nd International Conference on Ancient Greek Technology, since prehistorical times up to the byzantine period.

The Conference will take place in the Amphitheater of the War Museum (Rizari 2, Athens Greece), 17 - 20 October 2005. The last day of the Conference (21st of October 2005) the participants will have the opportunity to select between the following two technical visits:


Visit to Lavrion , which includes the visit of the ancient metallurgy and metalwork installations, as well as the visit of the Technological Park of the National Technical University, or


Visit to Korinthos, including visit of the Canal and Ancient Diolkos.

Ninety distinguished scientists, coming from Greece and Abroad, will present their papers, orally or as a poster. In the lobby of the War Museum Amphitheater, an Exhibition of Ancient Greek Technology will be open, containing models of measurement instruments, models of buildings, metalwork and automats, as well as banners including useful information, and short presentations of the models.

An entire session will be devoted to the mechanism of Antikythera. Dr M. Wright will present his new model and the last developments of his research; a discussion of round table will follow.

Among others the following distinguished scientists will honor the conference with their presence and will present the following invited lectures:


S. Geroulanos, professor of History of Medicine, University of Ioannina, "Surgical Tools in Ancient Times"


J. Knauss, professor of Hydraulics, Technical University of Munich, "Observations and Considerations Concerning Mycenaean Underground Well-Houses or Spring Chambers, Especially at Mycenae, Tirυns and Ithaca"


J. Muhly, Professor Emeritus at the University of Pennsylvania, "Texts and Technology. The Beginnings of Iron Metallurgy in The Eastern Mediterranean"


Ch. Doumas, professor of prehistoric archaeology, University of Athens, ?Technology and Economy in Bronze Age Thera"


J.P. Oleson, professor at the University of Victoria, Canada,"Herodotus, Aristotle, and sounding weights: The deep sea as a frontier in the Classical world"

J.C. Pοursat, Professor Emeritus at the University of Clermont Ferrand, "Materials and Craftsmanship in Bronze Age Crete"

M. Wright, British Science Museum, "Understanding the Antikythera Mechanism"

English and Greek will be the working languages of the Conference. Simultaneous translation will be provided.

Due to the increased demand, it has been decided to extend the dates of registration, up to the 30th of September. The participation fee is € 100 (This fee includes participation, coffee breaks, official dinner, technical visit and the book of abstracts)

Conference

 

[Kondoru]

This is good. Its about times that was looked at properly

 

[ramonmercado]

Magazize

Sadly the November/December issue of British Archeology doesnt mention this Conference. It lists both national and international conferences from early Oct 05 to mid July 06. Guess the conference was a bit too Fortean for them. :x

 

[Kondoru]

But its not `too Fortean`.

Its an artifact well established as genuinine

 

[ramonmercado]

Conference

But its not `too Fortean`.

Its an artifact well established as genuinine

Which makes it all the more annoying that BA didnt mention the Conference.

 

[crunchy5]

A break through at last on this mystery. 8)

http://www.physorg.com/news68796309.html

The size of a shoebox, a mysterious bronze device scooped out of a Roman-era shipwreck at the dawn of the 20th century has baffled scientists for years. Now a British researcher has stunningly established it as the world's oldest surviving astronomy computer.


A team of Greek and British scientists probing the secrets of the Antikythera Mechanism has managed to decipher ancient Greek inscriptions unseen for over 2,000 years, members of the project say.

"Part of the text on the machine, over 1,000 characters, had already been deciphered, but we have succeeded in doubling this total," said physician Yiannis Bitsakis, part of a multi-disciplinary team of researchers from universities in Athens, Salonika and Cardiff, the Athens National Archaeological Museum and the Hewlett-Packard company.

"We have now deciphered 95 percent of the text," he told AFP.

Scooped out of a Roman shipwreck located in 1900 by sponge divers near the southern Greek island of Antikythera, and kept at the Athens National Archaeological Museum, the Mechanism contains over 30 bronze wheels and dials, and is covered in astronomical inscriptions.

Probably operated by crank, it survives in three main pieces and some smaller fragments.

"(The device) could calculate the position of certain stars, at least the Sun and Moon, and perhaps predict astronomical phenomena," said astrophysicist Xenophon Moussas of Athens University.

"It was probably rare, if not unique," he added.

The rarity of the Antikythera Mechanism precluded its removal from the museum, so an eight-tonne 'body scanner' had to be assembled on-site for the privately-funded project, which used three-dimensional tomography to expose the unseen inscriptions.

The first appraisal of the Mechanism's purpose was put forward in the 1960s by British science historian Derek Price, but the scientists' latest discovery raises more questions.

"It is a puzzle concerning astronomical and mathematical knowledge in antiquity," said Moussas. "The Mechanism could actually rewrite certain chapters in this area."

"The challenge is to place this device into a scientific context, as it comes almost out of nowhere... and flies in the face of established theory that considers the ancient Greeks were lacking in applied technical knowledge," adds Bitsakis, also of Athens University.

The researchers are also looking at the broader remains of the Roman ship -- believed to have sunk around 80 BC -- for clues to the Mechanism's origin.

One theory under examination is that the device was created in an academy founded by the ancient Stoic philosopher Poseidonios on the Greek island of Rhodes.

The writings of 1st-century AD Roman orator and philosopher Cicero -- himself a former student of Poseidonios -- cite a device with similarities to the Mechanism.

"Like Alexandria, Rhodes was a great centre of astronomy at the time," said Moussas. "The boat where the device was discovered could have been part of a convoy to Rome, bearing treasure looted from the island for the purpose of a triumph parade staged by Julius Caesar."

The new findings are to be discussed at an international congress (www.antikythera-mechanism.gr) scheduled to be held in Athens in Novembe

 

[ProfessorF]

Hopefully someone will attempt to build a reconstruction of it. That would be one step forward surely?

 

[bosskR]

Re: Ancient clockwork?

But why is there no mention of such instruments in the literature of the time? (I’m assuming they're not explictily mentioned – not being a Greek scholar).

In the Wikipedia article, Cicero (about a hundred years later) is said to have mentioned a similar instrument ”recently constructed by our friend Poseidonius, which at each revolution reproduces the same motions of the sun, the moon and the five planets”. This must have been a very similar mechanism.

 

[Mal_Adjusted]

re replica of mechanism

if you watched the third terry jones program on barbarians (a series that seesm to have been grossly underpromoted - get the book when it becomes remaindered!!) you'll have seen such a replica.

there appears to have been at least three attempts to build a replica but as there have since been further advances in understanding the device, none can be seen as definitive.

see the wikipedia article for summary:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism

antikythera mechanism research project site here:

http://www.antikythera-mechanism.gr/

 

[WhistlingJack]

Revealed: world's oldest computer

Helena Smith

Sunday August 20, 2006

It looks like a heap of rubbish, feels like flaky pastry and has been linked to aliens. For decades, scientists have puzzled over the complex collection of cogs, wheels and dials seen as the most sophisticated object from antiquity, writes Helena Smith. But 102 years after the discovery of the calcium-encrusted bronze mechanism on the ocean floor, hidden inscriptions show that it is the world's oldest computer, used to map the motions of the sun, moon and planets.

'We're very close to unlocking the secrets,' says Xenophon Moussas,an astrophysicist with a Anglo-Greek team researching the device. 'It's like a puzzle concerning astronomical and mathematical knowledge.'

Known as the Antikythera mechanism and made before the birth of Christ, the instrument was found by sponge divers amid the wreckage of a cargo ship that sunk off the tiny island of Antikythera in 80BC. To date, no other appears to have survived.

'Bronze objects like these would have been recycled, but being in deep water it was out of reach of the scrap-man and we had the luck to discover it,' said Michael Wright, a former curator at London's Science Museum. He said the apparatus was the best proof yet of how technologically advanced the ancients were. 'The skill with which it was made shows a level of instrument-making not surpassed until the Renaissance. It really is the first hard evidence of their interest in mechanical gadgets, ability to make them and the preparedness of somebody to pay for them.'

For years scholars had surmised that the object was an astronomical showpiece, navigational instrument or rich man's toy. The Roman Cicero described the device as being for 'after-dinner entertainment'.

But many experts say it could change how the history of science is written. 'In many ways, it was the first analogue computer,' said Professor Theodosios Tassios of the National Technical University of Athens. 'It will change the way we look at the ancients' technological achievements.'

Guardian Newspapers Limited 2006

 

[rynner2]

Ancient Moon 'computer' revisited
By Jonathan Fildes
Science and technology reporter, BBC News

The delicate workings at the heart of a 2,000-year-old analogue computer have been revealed by scientists.

The Antikythera Mechanism, discovered more than 100 years ago in a Roman shipwreck, was used by ancient Greeks to display astronomical cycles.

Using advanced imaging techniques, an Anglo-Greek team probed the remaining fragments of the complex geared device.

The results, published in the journal Nature, show it could have been used to predict solar and lunar eclipses.

The elaborate arrangement of bronze gears may also have displayed planetary information.

"This is as important for technology as the Acropolis is for architecture," said Professor John Seiradakis of the Aristotle University of Thessaloniki in Greece, and one of the team. "It is a unique device."

However, not all experts agree with the team's interpretation of the mechanism.

Technical complexity

The remains of the device were first discovered in 1902 when archaeologist Valerios Stais noticed a heavily corroded gear wheel amongst artefacts recovered by sponge divers from a sunken Roman cargo ship.

A further 81 fragments have since been found containing a total of 30 hand-cut bronze gears. The largest fragment has 27 cogs.

Researchers believe these would have been housed in a rectangular wooden frame with two doors, covered in instructions for its use. The complete calculator would have been driven by a hand crank.

Although its origins are uncertain, the new studies of the inscriptions suggest it would have been constructed around 100-150 BC, long before such devices appear in other parts of the world.

Writing in Nature, the team says that the mechanism was "technically more complex than any known device for at least a millennium afterwards".

Although much of it is now lost, particularly from the front, what remains has given a century's worth of researchers a tantalising glimpse into the world of ancient Greek astronomy.

One of the most comprehensive studies was done by British science historian Derek Solla Price, who advanced the theory that the device was used to calculate and display celestial information.

This would have been important for timing agricultural and religious festivals. Some researchers now also believe that it could have been used for teaching or navigation.

Although Solla Price's work did much to push forward the state of knowledge about the device's functions, his interpretation of the mechanics is now largely dismissed.

A reinterpretation of the fragments by Michael Wright of Imperial College London between 2002 and 2005, for example, developed an entirely different assembly for the gears.

The new work builds on this legacy.

Eclipse function

Using bespoke non-invasive imaging systems, such as three-dimensional X-ray microfocus computed tomography, the team was able to take detailed pictures of the device and uncover new information.

The major structure they describe, like earlier studies, had a single, centrally placed dial on the front plate that showed the Greek zodiac and an Egyptian calendar on concentric scales.

On the back, two further dials displayed information about the timing of lunar cycles and eclipse patterns. Previously, the idea that the mechanism could predict eclipses had only been a hypothesis.

Other aspects are less certain, such as the exact number of cogs that would have been in the complete device.

However, what is left gives an insight into the complexity of the information the mechanism could display.

For example, the Moon sometimes moves slightly faster in the sky than at others because of the satellite's elliptic orbit.

To overcome this, the designer of the calculator used a "pin-and-slot" mechanism to connect two gear-wheels that introduced the necessary variations.

"When you see it your jaw just drops and you think: 'bloody hell, that's clever'. It's a brilliant technical design," said Professor Mike Edmunds.

Planetary display

The team was also able to decipher more of the text on the mechanism, doubling the amount of text that can now be read.

Combined with analysis of the dials, the inscriptions hint at the possibility that the Antikythera Mechanism could have also displayed planetary motions.

"Inscriptions mention the word 'Venus' and the word 'stationary' which would tend to suggest that it was looking at retrogressions of planets," said Professor Edmunds.

"In my own view, it probably displayed Venus and Mercury, but some people suggest it may display many other planets."

One of those people is Michael Wright. His reconstruction of the device, with 72 gears, suggests it may have been an orrery that displayed the motions of the five known planets of the time.

"There is a feature on the front plate that could have made provision for a bearing with a spindle, that carried motion up to a mechanism used to model the planets of Mars, Jupiter and Saturn as well," he told the BBC News website.

"That's how I see it and my reconstruction shows it works well."

Intriguingly, Mr Wright also believes the device was not a one-off.

"The designer and maker of the device knew what they wanted to achieve and they did it expertly; they made no mistakes," he said.

"To do this, it can't have been very far from their every day stock work."

The Antikythera Mechanism will be explored in an episode of Unearthing Mysteries on BBC Radio 4 on 12 December

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6191462.stm

 

[JamesWhitehead]

"There is a feature on the front plate that could have made provision for a bearing with a spindle, that carried motion up to a mechanism used to model the planets of Mars, Jupiter and Saturn as well,"

. . . and a hole in the bottom that may have contained a nutmeg!

 

[OneWingedBird]

. . . and a hole in the bottom that may have contained a nutmeg! Smile

i dare say that if you'd eaten the nutmeg, you wouldn't be caring much about the location of uranus for some time afterwards...

 

[Mythopoeika]

. . . and a hole in the bottom that may have contained a nutmeg! Smile

i dare say that if you'd eaten the nutmeg, you wouldn't be caring much about the location of uranus for some time afterwards...

Oh, you would. Wouldn't Uranus be located on the toilet for a while? :lol:

 

[OneWingedBird]

lol they're hallucinogenic, not laxative... you might find yourself seeing strange shit, but prob. not doing any

 

[WhistlingJack]

Unearthing Mysteries: The Antikythera Mechanism

This was on yesterday, but you can listen to it again through the webpage until next Tuesday: -

UNEARTHING MYSTERIES

In the first of a new series of Unearthing Mysteries, Aubrey Manning travels to Athens to find out about the secrets of a finding which has astonished its investigators.

The Antikythera Mechanism

The Antikythera Mechanism is an intricate bronze device of wheels, dials and gears created more than two thousand years ago by the Ancient Greeks.

Found at the bottom of the sea by sponge divers on the wreck of a Roman cargo ship it has fascinated astronomers, mathematicians, engineers and historians ever since.

Crafted with precision engineering and covered with astronomical symbols and inscriptions – was it an early astronomical computer? The sophisticated technology used to make it isn’t seen until medieval clocks 1000 years later. Could its existence mean the ancient Greeks knew the Earth moved round the Sun more than a millennia before Copernicus brought it to the world in the sixteenth century?

Aubrey goes in search of who made it, what it was used for and why its existence might mean a rethink of our understanding of the history of science and technology.

bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/unearthingmysteries