Are All Psychics & Fortune Tellers Fakes?

gattino

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Article on the bbc website about young people turning to spiritualism (or "the supernatural" as it says in the headline)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/eabdc0ed-70c0-4af2-8295-96ebfc4dc613


“Okay,” says Ashley, closing his eyes again. “I’m asking Dave to move on. I’ve got another older man here. I think he has breathing difficulties… does this mean anything to anyone? Remember, only answer ‘yes’ or ‘no’ please.”
Charlie’s face lights up at the mention of ‘breathing difficulties’. Ashley turns to her and continues to deliver information.
“What about 17 December… as an anniversary?” Ashley asks.
“Oh, yes,” Charlie says, beaming and playing with the purple crystal hanging around her neck.
This man, she thinks, is her dead grandfather, communicating with her from beyond the grave. And 17 December? Well, she tells us, that’s when her family will come together, throwing a party with him in their thoughts.
“He wants you to know he’s OK, and that he loves you,” Ashley says. “That was your message.”
Charlie looks relaxed but elated. Silence descends again."


****
"Today, the Spiritualists’ National Union of Great Britain estimates that they have around 11,500 members throughout the UK attending their 340 churches to try to communicate with the spirit world via mediums, a number which, they claim, has been bolstered by a surge in interest from younger generations. The number of people in England and Wales who identified their religion as ‘Spiritualist’ rose by 22% between the 2001 and 2011 censuses. "
 

gattino

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I've got to say, reading that article in full im left as flat as always that the act of delivering messages is so vague and inconsequential. "Do you know some who had physical quality X" "Yes" "They're very proud of you/say thanks for the flowers"/"I've asked him to move on and now im getting person Y"...and people are moved by it. The author of the article is clearly more impressed by the experience than the description provided seems to warrant. The fact that it always starts with asking a question instead of the purportedly chatty dead supplying the information from the off is another bugbear.

Even when something seemingly specific and personal does appear to be included the content of it is so something and nothing that its hard to imagine the dead bothering to make the effort. I've said before..probably on this thread...that it bears next to no resemblance to the victorian and edwardian literature on communication through mediums, which appeared to involve full on, personality rich, conversation. Where is that stuff now if it existed then? And if the old kind of readings are possible - and they appear to have been - it makes me doubt all the more that the people giving the modern kind to audiences have any mediumistic abilities at all. Where they're right and no better explanation presents itself then it seems at best to be flashes of clairvoyance or the "psychic" rather than surviving personalities actually whispering in their ear.
 

MorningAngel

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Has anyone had any readings through Etsy? I had one the other day. They seem allergic to full stops. Paragraphs without any, you couldn’t work out what they were saying.

Anyone had a good experience with it. I had ones before from a guy that seemed good but I’m still waiting for the things to come to pass.
 

Rahere

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There's an old debunking line, "If you're that good a seer, why aren't you rich?" which somewhat misses the point that spiritual gifts tend to deny that kind of value. On the other hand, the labourer is generally worthy of his hire, and those wanting that kind of skill are willing to pay for it. Which is why my pension is worth several hard workers' salaries, because I did deliver, quite a lot.
Now, the folk you're picking on, the Carnie brigade, are mostly working in their own powers. That means to say that they're prey to their own egos, and the egos of the audience, because they're working at a far lower level. One-on-one is very dodgy work, because you're working with just the flicker of feed from someone who has virtually no esoteric psyche themselves. I've read a room full of Reiki practitioners, which was a bit like reading a bowl full of porridge, fairly bland. Once in a while I'll discover a true wild card. That's fun, because they're calling in powers from beyond them. But if one tries to read a tube carriage, for example, it's like trying to read a toilet roll.
By using my skills when clearly charged by my own spirit, as distinct from my own will, in other words when by prayer and contemplative meditation I become certain that I do have something valuable to add, I'm not using my ego at all. I'm more of a medium, a channel through which that feeling, that sense, flows. My key triggering was utterly exoteric, and I tap some of that when needed. Not esoteric, not endoteric, exoteric. It means I have to attend to spiritual hygiene in the way of humility and, coming from a christian angle, repentant confession - other paths have their own rites. Being of the Samuel line, I've learned to listen to that small quiet word of clarity, which we find in some music. But it's not always, because it allows us free will, as far as possible. When we start to look upon it as endoteric, we end up in the mess Theresa May's in - her Dad was a vicar. It's made her very certain of her own values - or to other peoples eyes, arrogantly dogmatic and self-opinionated.
I was rather amused by the circumstances this afternoon, I'd just had some excellent news and my joy communicated itself infectuously. The question is, how can we communicate that normally? I wasn't behaving wildly, or - as far as I know - carrying the most ridiculous grin on my face, but my mind was flooded with endorphins and somehow people picked up on that. As I've said, I've Master-level Reiki, which does jump without physical contact, and I've used it in concerts to make the audience feel really great. That's the same thing. Or is it me picking up on the occasional smile from a Londoner? Because as a clan, the Commuter is something out of the upper levels of the inferno. Zero empathy. Some, actually negative, you can feel them sucking the hope out of you.
The Beatles wrote Nowhere Man about them. That's how Parliament gets away with it. Except that when he gets home, he can release his own inner despair which he's suppressed all day. No wonder cancer rates are shooting through the ceiling. London, a place where showing emotion is forbidden.
Tough, I emote. Nowhere Man, you sometimes feel to me as if you've lost touch with your emotions. Here, have one of mine. Love one another.
 

escargot

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There's an old debunking line, "If you're that good a seer, why aren't you rich?" which somewhat misses the point that spiritual gifts tend to deny that kind of value. On the other hand, the labourer is generally worthy of his hire, and those wanting that kind of skill are willing to pay for it. Which is why my pension is worth several hard workers' salaries, because I did deliver, quite a lot.
Now, the folk you're picking on, the Carnie brigade, are mostly working in their own powers. That means to say that they're prey to their own egos, and the egos of the audience, because they're working at a far lower level. One-on-one is very dodgy work, because you're working with just the flicker of feed from someone who has virtually no esoteric psyche themselves. I've read a room full of Reiki practitioners, which was a bit like reading a bowl full of porridge, fairly bland. Once in a while I'll discover a true wild card. That's fun, because they're calling in powers from beyond them. But if one tries to read a tube carriage, for example, it's like trying to read a toilet roll.
By using my skills when clearly charged by my own spirit, as distinct from my own will, in other words when by prayer and contemplative meditation I become certain that I do have something valuable to add, I'm not using my ego at all. I'm more of a medium, a channel through which that feeling, that sense, flows. My key triggering was utterly exoteric, and I tap some of that when needed. Not esoteric, not endoteric, exoteric. It means I have to attend to spiritual hygiene in the way of humility and, coming from a christian angle, repentant confession - other paths have their own rites. Being of the Samuel line, I've learned to listen to that small quiet word of clarity, which we find in some music. But it's not always, because it allows us free will, as far as possible. When we start to look upon it as endoteric, we end up in the mess Theresa May's in - her Dad was a vicar. It's made her very certain of her own values - or to other peoples eyes, arrogantly dogmatic and self-opinionated.
I was rather amused by the circumstances this afternoon, I'd just had some excellent news and my joy communicated itself infectuously. The question is, how can we communicate that normally? I wasn't behaving wildly, or - as far as I know - carrying the most ridiculous grin on my face, but my mind was flooded with endorphins and somehow people picked up on that. As I've said, I've Master-level Reiki, which does jump without physical contact, and I've used it in concerts to make the audience feel really great. That's the same thing. Or is it me picking up on the occasional smile from a Londoner? Because as a clan, the Commuter is something out of the upper levels of the inferno. Zero empathy. Some, actually negative, you can feel them sucking the hope out of you.
The Beatles wrote Nowhere Man about them. That's how Parliament gets away with it. Except that when he gets home, he can release his own inner despair which he's suppressed all day. No wonder cancer rates are shooting through the ceiling. London, a place where showing emotion is forbidden.
Tough, I emote. Nowhere Man, you sometimes feel to me as if you've lost touch with your emotions. Here, have one of mine. Love one another.
This is a very nice post but it might not receive the attention it deserves because the text is too dense.

People reading on phones or small screens might not be able to follow it.

If it were broken down into very short paragraphs it would be easier to read.
 

gattino

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One of my brothers and his best mate are both very into the spiritual. going for readings etc, in a way that's distinct from myself....that's to say it seems to fall into the category of belief rather than curiosity. The concept of spirit guides, angels and tarot et al. Not to say my brother is convinced of any particular thing but is less likely to dismiss it out of hand and i always sound like a committed sceptic when commenting on anything he reports...which seems odd as my presence on here shows im very much persuaded by the reality of much strangeness.

Anyway he's just reported to me that his mate, M, had a reading from a lady..not a stranger, but not someone with knowledge of his life. Apparently she said your mum is here with you now you know. (His mum died in the last year). Is she? he enquired. "Yes. She's with Trevor, from the dominoes club" or something to that effect.

What M, via my brother, is adamant of is that she couldn't have possibly known that that M's mum had indeed once run a dominoes club as part of an ex forces organisation. But he never heard of Trevor - who the lady gave a physical description of. He rang his own brother to ask him later...oh yes, the brother confirms, Trevor died several years ago.

Barring sheer dumb luck only two explanations present themselves. This woman had material knowledge about M's mum and her past associations to pass off as psychic revelations. I'm not in any position to know or comment...all i can say is that my brother and M are both adamant that she could not. Or, alternatively, this was a genuinely anomalous display of paranormal knowledge. But if it was the latter the thing of interest is that the sitter, M, did not have this knowledge in his own mind, thus ruling out telepathy. It would appear on the surface, as told, to be a much sought after example of "veridical" information from a medium.
 

catseye

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It's almost as though the information is given more to reassure the sitter that the person is actually there, than to pass on information. I mean, for example, in M's case, above, why would the lady *bother* to give a description of Trevor? 'Your mum is here with Trevor.'
'Never heard of him.'
'Trevor from dominoes. He's six foot tall, dark hair, got a beard and wears a gold chain around his neck.'
'Nope, still no idea...'

If the sitter doesn't know who Trevor is, as in this example, then why describe him? Was she expecting M suddenly to go 'oh, that Trevor!'? Or was the description given for some other reason?
 

Recycled1

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I've had quite a lot do do with Spiritualist churches over the last 15 or so years.
Messages form the 'other side' often contain infomation that the recipient has to veritfy in their own good time, afterwards.
It seems that people in the spirit world often use this as proof of their existence and continuing memory.
 
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PeteS

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I've had quite a lot do do with Spititualist churches over the last 15 or so years.
Messages form the 'other side' often contain infomation that the recipient has to veritfy in their own good time, afterwards.
It seems that people in the spirit world often use this as proof of their existence and continuing memory.
Precisely of course what happened to me.
 

gattino

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A perfect illustration of my now repeated complaint that the modern version of mediumship appears to bear little relationship to the truly impressive "direct clear conversation" kind described in the literature of early 20th century researchers...and a counter to the "telepathy" explanation for apparent paranormal knowledge...is found in this article about "book tests". It gives multiple examples of purported spirit communicators informing the sitters what words or words would appear in a particular paragraph of a random book or newspaper. It's quite extraordinary if reported honestly.

https://psi-encyclopedia.spr.ac.uk/articles/book-tests
 

Comfortably Numb

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After much contemplation, comfortable that Kenny Dalglish, as he did on many an occasion, in a post match interview when a manager and likewise, re the topic here... asked a similarly challenging question, would consider same and reply...

... 'mibbes aye, mibbes naw'...
 

PeteS

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After much contemplation, comfortable that Kenny Dalglish, as he did on many an occasion, in a post match interview when a manager and likewise, re the topic here... asked a similarly challenging question, would consider same and reply...

... 'mibbes aye, mibbes naw'...
Reminds me of my school maths teacher who was a bit of a genius. When faced with something he couldn't answer would say "We shouldn't waste anymore time on this, lets move on". I must admit to having used this phrase on occasion in my life, particularly in the case of "yes it is, no it isn't " type arguments.
 

Georgek

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Following the recent tragic events in the US, we can conclude that psychics/fortune tellers are just plain rip offs and only in it for the money. With the numerous alleged psychics in the world, how come not a single one could foretell these events coming and warn the relevant authorities? Maybe I am just wishful thinking here that somehow innocent lives could have been saved. :(
You are thinking in 3D instead of 4D.

This world is not the pacification of extreme reverence.

Things happen because they are meant to happen. The laws of karma is not for us to decide judgement.

To correct such things could harness greater disturbances. Okay I am against this happening and if I could stop it...I would.

Wars are the result of over population and the laws of averages is such that Natural Selection and all what Darwin suggests is also true.

I do not make these laws. Folks say how can God do such things? Does this mean that God does not exist?

Is it wrong to let us say for a lion to eat a wilder beast because the latter looks cute?

Ohio will suffer devastation but no one will listen to me. Until it happens.
This is where the next greatest catastrophe will happen due I believe to David Besse Nuclear reactor.

As the aliens/guides say:- "Heaven help the message!"

It is good that no one listens because there would be an equal amount of danger. All you have to do is think about it?
Davis Besse is about THEE most dangerous nuclear power station in the world and is at a knife's edge to a meltdown.
Ohio sits on the Great Madrid Fault line and the increased fracking will cause more judders. If/when Davis Besse blows, nuclear waste will enter Lake Eire and then flow into the St Lawrence towards New York. Then we have trouble because the back flow currents will turn around from Maine and back into New York risking millions of lives. This is The New Jerusalem as mentioned in the bible. The UFO people cannot stop it either.
 

Georgek

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Davis-Besse is being shut down in 2020.
This still does not solve the problem as I quote:-

This involves waiting to allow the radioactive materials to decay. ... However, the concrete may disintegrate long before the radioactivity declines to a safe level. Entombment is not considered a viable option for current or future stations and is the least used method of decommissioning.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_decommissioning

Ohio is in danger and I cannot see any other danger apart from Davis Besse?

Whatever it is....it will leave Ohio like Armageddon.



I found this on the Internet posted by a mother regarding Davis Besse
 

packshaud

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I skimmed through the first and the last pages on this thread, and perhaps what I am going to write was already done by somebody.

Everyone knows that it is possible to listen to a particular sound when there are several sources in the environment. For example, hearing a civil defense siren among several other sounds.

Let's assume for a moment that telepathy is real. The telepath would be able to tune to certain thoughts. Say, everything about a dead person in a sitting. The information on the person would be obtained from the minds of the persons in the room.

No one would notice incoherences, because the information was obtained from them. The psychic might not know he is not contacting the dead person, but only reading the minds of the people at the séance.

In this case, there would be no fraud, but things are not what they seem to be.
 

Georgek

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I skimmed through the first and the last pages on this thread, and perhaps what I am going to write was already done by somebody.

Everyone knows that it is possible to listen to a particular sound when there are several sources in the environment. For example, hearing a civil defense siren among several other sounds.

Let's assume for a moment that telepathy is real. The telepath would be able to tune to certain thoughts. Say, everything about a dead person in a sitting. The information on the person would be obtained from the minds of the persons in the room.

No one would notice incoherences, because the information was obtained from them. The psychic might not know he is not contacting the dead person, but only reading the minds of the people at the séance.

In this case, there would be no fraud, but things are not what they seem to be.
Possible!
 
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