Are U.S. Christian Fundamentalists Stoking War In The Middle-East?
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Anonymous
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China?
hmm - isn't communism the religion of the masses? Or should that be 'the masses are the opiates of religion'?
Turkey's a secular state, mm mm yes indeedy, no islam anywhere to be seen in the government, no sir.
I like how the Kurdish Workers Party is now a banned 'terrorist' group in the UK, despite having no history of targetting civilians, and despite the fact that their leader has disowned violence (probably under torture admittedly). Okay off thread, off thread.
On thread - the antichrist is alive and well, and living on Capitol Hill... Shame they don't make those pretzels slightly larger.
Turkey's a secular state, mm mm yes indeedy, no islam anywhere to be seen in the government, no sir.
I like how the Kurdish Workers Party is now a banned 'terrorist' group in the UK, despite having no history of targetting civilians, and despite the fact that their leader has disowned violence (probably under torture admittedly). Okay off thread, off thread.
On thread - the antichrist is alive and well, and living on Capitol Hill... Shame they don't make those pretzels slightly larger.
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Anonymous
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Well China is technically s secular country. But I doubt it's very nice anyway. They're just fanatic about something else.
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Anonymous
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not as good, but...
Here is another link to news that is often buried,
http://www.brutal.com/ the stories are more or less mostly local American tidbits with some attention to world news as well. The one guarantee I can give you, is that depression WILL set in after reading all of the stories posted there.
It also backs up the Euro-notion that most Americans are maniacs.
Here is another link to news that is often buried,
http://www.brutal.com/ the stories are more or less mostly local American tidbits with some attention to world news as well. The one guarantee I can give you, is that depression WILL set in after reading all of the stories posted there.
It also backs up the Euro-notion that most Americans are maniacs.
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Anonymous
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Hey Intaglio!
No worries, mate! I didn't take offense, how will I learn what I'm doing wrong if no-one corrects me? If I seemed pissy, I apologize! Oh, and here are some of these for you;,,,,,,,,,,!
I tried to PM you, but "your box was full". [for some reason, I just love that phrase!]
keep having fun you beautiful bastards!
Wulfloki
No worries, mate! I didn't take offense, how will I learn what I'm doing wrong if no-one corrects me? If I seemed pissy, I apologize! Oh, and here are some of these for you;,,,,,,,,,,!
I tried to PM you, but "your box was full". [for some reason, I just love that phrase!]
keep having fun you beautiful bastards!
Wulfloki
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I read on a beliefnet.com message board about the red calf being born, and all the fundies were happy: "Now they can build the temple so Jesus can come back!"
Only problem is, there's a mosque sitting where the temple is supposed to be. And the end-time prophecies of Islam call for this mosque to be destroyed.
Three largest religions' apocalypse prophecies all fulfilled at once, when Israel demolishes the Dome of the Rock and sacrifices that calf there. After that, guaranteed nuclear holocaust.
The calf needs to be three years old to be sacrified. They had a red calf before, born in 1997, but when it turned 3 there were white hairs on its tail, tainting it.
Global apocalypse in 2005. Caused by religious nuts.
Only problem is, there's a mosque sitting where the temple is supposed to be. And the end-time prophecies of Islam call for this mosque to be destroyed.
Three largest religions' apocalypse prophecies all fulfilled at once, when Israel demolishes the Dome of the Rock and sacrifices that calf there. After that, guaranteed nuclear holocaust.
The calf needs to be three years old to be sacrified. They had a red calf before, born in 1997, but when it turned 3 there were white hairs on its tail, tainting it.
Global apocalypse in 2005. Caused by religious nuts.
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- 183
Re: not as good, but...
This is more or less true.
A MAJORITY of the population thinks the Earth and all its animals were created in 6 literal days 10,000 years ago, and that the Grand Canyon is a result of the Noachian flood in 4004 BC. 45% of HIGH SCHOOL BIOLOGY TEACHERS believe that this theory should be taught in schools.
Right now, pretty much everyone in the world hates us, and nobody here even cares why.
wulfloki said:
This is more or less true.
A MAJORITY of the population thinks the Earth and all its animals were created in 6 literal days 10,000 years ago, and that the Grand Canyon is a result of the Noachian flood in 4004 BC. 45% of HIGH SCHOOL BIOLOGY TEACHERS believe that this theory should be taught in schools.
Right now, pretty much everyone in the world hates us, and nobody here even cares why.
There does seem to be a body of evidence omunting to suggest that the flood myths are true, and do indeed seem to date back to this period. Graham Hancock supports this thesis, and has done some interesting research into the late ice age and glacial melt. Plato says that atlantis was destroyed around the same time that the bible indicates the flood happened.
On a completely different tack - I read somewhere yesterday (god knows where...) that HAMAS was originally created by the Israeli defence department as a disinformation project against the PLO. Any idea whether this is based in fact, or more anti-Israeli propaganda?
On a completely different tack - I read somewhere yesterday (god knows where...) that HAMAS was originally created by the Israeli defence department as a disinformation project against the PLO. Any idea whether this is based in fact, or more anti-Israeli propaganda?
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[I tried to post this last night but my system fell over. So I rebooted only to have it fall over and sink into the swamp. I tried again only to have it burn down, fall over and sink into the swamp - but the fourth time? The fourth time it stayed up!]
So a bunch of fundies are trying to Emmenatise the Eschaton... well I wish them luck!
Why? Well look at it this way: short every human being dying there will be survivors. These will look at each other and either go "never again" or "where's the hell is God?" and the monolithic monotheistic faiths will dissapear for several thousand years, if not 'forever'.
This is not the End of the World for anyone outside christianity, juadism and islam. Instead it's the end of those faiths and two thousand years of hatred, intolerance and violence in the name of the divine psudo-parent. So I say fuck'em! If they want to wipe themselves out then I think we should let them! In fact I'd gladly help them.
What we need to do is build a few Space-Arks (O'neil habitats with light-sails), secretly populate them with ourselves and everything we might need (including a few thousand like minded individuals) and cruise the solar system while things blow over back home. Hell why stick locally? With enough forward planning we can head off into interstella-space. This might be the very kick to help us realise our full potential! I call this "Operation Rapture". Anyone here want to give a hand?
Niles "...'Tis not too late to seek a newer world..." Calder
So a bunch of fundies are trying to Emmenatise the Eschaton... well I wish them luck!
Why? Well look at it this way: short every human being dying there will be survivors. These will look at each other and either go "never again" or "where's the hell is God?" and the monolithic monotheistic faiths will dissapear for several thousand years, if not 'forever'.
This is not the End of the World for anyone outside christianity, juadism and islam. Instead it's the end of those faiths and two thousand years of hatred, intolerance and violence in the name of the divine psudo-parent. So I say fuck'em! If they want to wipe themselves out then I think we should let them! In fact I'd gladly help them.
What we need to do is build a few Space-Arks (O'neil habitats with light-sails), secretly populate them with ourselves and everything we might need (including a few thousand like minded individuals) and cruise the solar system while things blow over back home. Hell why stick locally? With enough forward planning we can head off into interstella-space. This might be the very kick to help us realise our full potential! I call this "Operation Rapture". Anyone here want to give a hand?
Niles "...'Tis not too late to seek a newer world..." Calder
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An aposit exchange from a tv series:-
'They are a dead race. You should let them pass'
'Who? The Narn or the Centauri?'
'Yes'
Fit the relvant religious grouping into the alien references and you have my opinion on the subject... its being so cheerful as keeps me going
8¬)
'They are a dead race. You should let them pass'
'Who? The Narn or the Centauri?'
'Yes'
Fit the relvant religious grouping into the alien references and you have my opinion on the subject... its being so cheerful as keeps me going
8¬)
Just thought I'd revive this entertaining thread with this link:Ariel Sharon: Messenger of Abrahamic Apocalypse?
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Anonymous
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Niles, sod the spaceships, why can't you just have a nice big converted aircraft carrier (Space Battleship Yamato, anyone?), and dump it as far from any land mass as possible?
The Cynic/sealfin
The Cynic/sealfin
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Yeah but sealfin, Rising up to the Heavens in a spacecraft has a more mythic feel to it... hence the "Operation: Rapture". Also if they manage to trigger a centuries long nuclear winter I'd rather be in space where we'd at least get the sunsealfin said:
Niles "Starman" Calder
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Anonymous
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well, by the reckoning of this thread, we've got about three years left. Although I'd rather search the stars for a new world, I don't think you're gonna have your worldship built in time. So, I'm off to check the market prices on Russian ac's...
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sealfin said:
A Kiev class would do nicely, I've always wanted one of those
Niles "Privateer" Calder
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Anonymous
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((this is Mr Tasha typing, just until my login is confirmed))
I have a fair bit to add to this topic, I think... I don't have the energy to deal with specific points that have been raised in this (wonderfully stimulating) thread right now, and neither would I feel right making serious points dressed as my significant other - it would all feel a bit Norman-Bates-being-buggered-by-Sigmund-Freud-who-is-speaking-in-the-voice-of-my-father... but enough of my dreams... :blah:
Anyway, while you wait for my pearls of jizzdom, check out http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_1969000/1969542.stm and listen to the whole 1/2 hour programme available as a live stream there. This spells out in pretty much non-speculative, non-alarmist, properly-researched terms exactly how the alliance of the Christian Right and the Zionist American Jewish lobby have come together and how they exert disproportional power on Capitol Hill.
I have a fair bit to add to this topic, I think... I don't have the energy to deal with specific points that have been raised in this (wonderfully stimulating) thread right now, and neither would I feel right making serious points dressed as my significant other - it would all feel a bit Norman-Bates-being-buggered-by-Sigmund-Freud-who-is-speaking-in-the-voice-of-my-father... but enough of my dreams... :blah:
Anyway, while you wait for my pearls of jizzdom, check out http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_1969000/1969542.stm and listen to the whole 1/2 hour programme available as a live stream there. This spells out in pretty much non-speculative, non-alarmist, properly-researched terms exactly how the alliance of the Christian Right and the Zionist American Jewish lobby have come together and how they exert disproportional power on Capitol Hill.
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
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My 2 cents
I've been thinking a lot lately, too, that some governments have gone off the deep end. I seems like, to me, too, that they are trying to fulfill their apocalyptic prophecies. It's disgusting and mad and really bugs me. It reminds me of that time on Star Trek TNG when Data went mad and took over the entire ship himself.
Where is the democracy that they are so verbosely defending? Regardless of cultural barriers that might exist between people, killing is still wrong. When you see all these people being killed in really ugly ways, do the American people not know that this is wrong? Do the pro-Zionists not know this is wrong? It's weird how people associate themselves with certain groups and then adopt ALL ideas fed to them. Don't people think for themselves anymore?
I've been thinking a lot lately, too, that some governments have gone off the deep end. I seems like, to me, too, that they are trying to fulfill their apocalyptic prophecies. It's disgusting and mad and really bugs me. It reminds me of that time on Star Trek TNG when Data went mad and took over the entire ship himself.
Where is the democracy that they are so verbosely defending? Regardless of cultural barriers that might exist between people, killing is still wrong. When you see all these people being killed in really ugly ways, do the American people not know that this is wrong? Do the pro-Zionists not know this is wrong? It's weird how people associate themselves with certain groups and then adopt ALL ideas fed to them. Don't people think for themselves anymore?
fascinating article posted by Mr Tasha (Joe?) - seems very strange that the jewish lobby and xian right groups would share the same vision for jerusalem. I thought that many xian fundamentailsts percieved jews as 'christ killers' for their role in the crucifiction. Also, relinquishing claims on the holiness of the city is also bizarre - surely it has traditionally been seen as the site of the 2nd coming, and an echo of the heavenly city. Xian doctrine insists that only the 'saved' may proceed to heaven - so I imagine only the saved have the right to its earthly counterpart.
There seems to be a definate Muslim vs Christian thing building up (again) and the jewish lobby seems to be siding with the xians, at least in the US. If this is not a religious war, why are religions (and religious language like 'evil' 'good' etc) so prominent? Also what's in it for either religion?
All very strange - then again near Finchley Rd tube there's a shop called 'jews for jesus'!
There seems to be a definate Muslim vs Christian thing building up (again) and the jewish lobby seems to be siding with the xians, at least in the US. If this is not a religious war, why are religions (and religious language like 'evil' 'good' etc) so prominent? Also what's in it for either religion?
All very strange - then again near Finchley Rd tube there's a shop called 'jews for jesus'!
This may seem cynical and offensive but sometimes I think that the more "pragmatic" elements in the US Government regard foreign democracies in the same light that Casanova saw virgins - only there to be . . . . . . . I'll leave you to fill in the blanks :hmph:
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Anonymous
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dot23 said:
If heaven looks like that, I'm siding with the Red Guy.
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Anonymous
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I've said it before on other threads, that the US will move towards Russia for its oil. I note with interest this week the large disarmament treaty between the two and greater co-operation with NATO. Expect oil to follow. Who gives a toss about OPEC then?
well they must be fairly bothered about opec as they tried to depose the president of venezuela, they're trying to depose the leader of Iraq, and the Afghan conflict seems to have been about taliban recalcitrance on the caspian sea pipeline.
loons the lot of em - yet more reason never to buy a car.
loons the lot of em - yet more reason never to buy a car.
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Anonymous
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dot23 said:
Well Said Dot23!
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Anonymous
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As always, I am fascinated by how different the world looks to folks, depending on their philosophical perspective...
(1) Anyone who wants to make the case that the USA is in the thrall of some kind of repressive, controlling Christian Fundamentalist cabal has, in my mind, a LONG way to go. Either that, or they have to qualify their view as asserting that the USA is in the thrall of a monstrously ineffectual Christian Fundamentalist cabal... Cable TV pumps a steady stream of sexually-tinged and sexually-explicit entertainments into most of the nation's homes, the radio is dominated by adolescently inclined "personalities" who vent their obsessions with sex, body functions and ethnic humor, the most mainstream of magazines - racked right by the kids' candy - all feature cover stories on sex, parents regularly buy explicitly violent video games and R rated movies for their teens and preteens, out of wedlock births are at historically high rates in most ethnic groups (and climbing in others), etc, etc etc etc... so if the Christian Fundamentalists are pulling the strings... not sure WHO it is they are controlling. You may think some or all of the above is just wonderful, mind you - not trying to start THAT debate - but whether you think that is awful or wonderful, I don't see any way you can assert that Christian Fundamentalists have much sway in the dominant culture of the day - when someone in the media IS portayed as a having Christian beliefs, they are MUCH more likely to be portrayed as stupid, mean, hypocritical or bigoted than not.
(2) What is it with the "x"-ian stuff? Trendy bigotry? I guess we should all come up with cool pet names for other religions we want to dis... just think of the fun we could have coming up with terms for Jews, Muslims, and the like! And why stop there - we can quickly move into our own catchphrases for ethnic groups too! Writing the term "Christian" is not an endorsement of Christ, by any means..but shoving that X in there, especially given the tone of those who DO, smacks to me of a smug, trendy, bigotry.
(3) I have yet to see a truly convincing explanation as to why, if there is NO God or gods, no afterlife, etc., any of us should bother to be anything but selfish. The most commonly offered rationale seems to be "How would you like it if someone did X to YOU?"... but really, isn't that just a code for the weak and squeamish? I mean, if right and wrong are just "fashions", why not look out for you and yours, do whatever is necessary to further those ends, and put it to everyone else?
As to the attack on Afghanistan being oil-driven... guess we are back to Bush and the "Jews" crashing those planes into the WTC, eh?
Shadow
(1) Anyone who wants to make the case that the USA is in the thrall of some kind of repressive, controlling Christian Fundamentalist cabal has, in my mind, a LONG way to go. Either that, or they have to qualify their view as asserting that the USA is in the thrall of a monstrously ineffectual Christian Fundamentalist cabal...
Cable TV pumps a steady stream of sexually-tinged and sexually-explicit entertainments into most of the nation's homes, the radio is dominated by adolescently inclined "personalities" who vent their obsessions with sex, body functions and ethnic humor, the most mainstream of magazines - racked right by the kids' candy - all feature cover stories on sex, parents regularly buy explicitly violent video games and R rated movies for their teens and preteens, out of wedlock births are at historically high rates in most ethnic groups (and climbing in others), etc, etc etc etc... so if the Christian Fundamentalists are pulling the strings... not sure WHO it is they are controlling. You may think some or all of the above is just wonderful, mind you - not trying to start THAT debate - but whether you think that is awful or wonderful, I don't see any way you can assert that Christian Fundamentalists have much sway in the dominant culture of the day - when someone in the media IS portayed as a having Christian beliefs, they are MUCH more likely to be portrayed as stupid, mean, hypocritical or bigoted than not.(2) What is it with the "x"-ian stuff? Trendy bigotry? I guess we should all come up with cool pet names for other religions we want to dis... just think of the fun we could have coming up with terms for Jews, Muslims, and the like! And why stop there - we can quickly move into our own catchphrases for ethnic groups too! Writing the term "Christian" is not an endorsement of Christ, by any means..but shoving that X in there, especially given the tone of those who DO, smacks to me of a smug, trendy, bigotry.
(3) I have yet to see a truly convincing explanation as to why, if there is NO God or gods, no afterlife, etc., any of us should bother to be anything but selfish. The most commonly offered rationale seems to be "How would you like it if someone did X to YOU?"... but really, isn't that just a code for the weak and squeamish? I mean, if right and wrong are just "fashions", why not look out for you and yours, do whatever is necessary to further those ends, and put it to everyone else?
As to the attack on Afghanistan being oil-driven... guess we are back to Bush and the "Jews" crashing those planes into the WTC, eh?
Shadow
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Anonymous
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Hmm, Shadow - a wee bit sensitive aren't you?
For the xtian/Xtian bit - a lot of folks on MBs (not just this one) use it merely as handy shorthand. It is NOT derogatory! Though if we started getting protests from lots of people about it, I for one would cease to use it.
As for the bit about how life without a deity would have to be all "I'll look after me & mine and to hell with the rest of you" selfishness - that I strongly disagree with. Have you never heard of altruistic self-interest? Basically, this is the 'you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours' principle. If you've ever stopped at a green light to let an ambulance or a fire-engine race past, you have excercised this form of altruism; stopping ,when you don't have to, to let an emergency vehicle pass doesn't do you any visible good - if may even critically delay you on an improtant journey - but, one day, that ambulance or that fire engine may just be racing to save your life. So you stop on that green light in the expectation that, if that day ever comes, some other motorist will do what you did. Another illustration of the principle is in paying taxes that go towards other peoples' children; one day some of those kids will be giving you nursing/medical care, or producing the food that keeps you fed, or the power that keeps you warm.
Have you got the idea now? This isn't wishy-washy liberalism, but REALISM.
For the xtian/Xtian bit - a lot of folks on MBs (not just this one) use it merely as handy shorthand. It is NOT derogatory! Though if we started getting protests from lots of people about it, I for one would cease to use it.
As for the bit about how life without a deity would have to be all "I'll look after me & mine and to hell with the rest of you" selfishness - that I strongly disagree with. Have you never heard of altruistic self-interest? Basically, this is the 'you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours' principle. If you've ever stopped at a green light to let an ambulance or a fire-engine race past, you have excercised this form of altruism; stopping ,when you don't have to, to let an emergency vehicle pass doesn't do you any visible good - if may even critically delay you on an improtant journey - but, one day, that ambulance or that fire engine may just be racing to save your life. So you stop on that green light in the expectation that, if that day ever comes, some other motorist will do what you did. Another illustration of the principle is in paying taxes that go towards other peoples' children; one day some of those kids will be giving you nursing/medical care, or producing the food that keeps you fed, or the power that keeps you warm.
Have you got the idea now? This isn't wishy-washy liberalism, but REALISM.