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Are UFOs & Ufology In Decline? If So—Why?

Why is Ufology on the decline?

  • Pre-Millenial tension has subsided

    Votes: 1 5.3%
  • Preoccupied with terrestrial problems (war, terrorism, the economy)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No-one watches the X-Files anymore

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No cases of significance in the last few years

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Too many recent hoaxes

    Votes: 4 21.1%
  • Realisation it will never be proven with photos and video alone

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • The visitors are lying low for some reason

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • They’ve finally realized it’s all bollocks

    Votes: 2 10.5%
  • UFOs are probably secret military stuff, and the military ain't talkin'

    Votes: 2 10.5%
  • The internet has killed discussion groups off, by and large

    Votes: 1 5.3%
  • All/some of the above

    Votes: 9 47.4%

  • Total voters
    19
As a treat for fans of 1970s ufology here's Holliday's original article:

Screenshot_20230918-211030_Drive.jpg

Screenshot_20230918-211054_Drive.jpg

Screenshot_20230918-211150_Drive.jpg
 
Pretty sure I have found the "dip in the road" before Nantycaws hill on the old A48. There is a bus stop with lay-by on the right hand side of the road at the spot I believe the humanoids may have been stood, which supports the idea of some vehicle with reflective markings pulled over. Could it have been an Army vehicle with the usual ariels in desert camouflage from an overseas posting and thus would have looked orangish in the lights?
 
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That's an interesting idea and might explain the 'aerials. The reddish-orange colour threw me a bit but that could be one explanation for it.

Assuming accurate reporting by Pugh on this point, the men do seem to have been extremely frightened. I had thought about road construction equipment parked up for the night but in all honesty, you'd think Lloyd would have been familiar with such sights. I do wish that Holiday had attempted to get a sketch from the witness as it's really very hard to visualise what the men thought they were seeing.
 
That's an interesting idea and might explain the 'aerials. The reddish-orange colour threw me a bit but that could be one explanation for it.

Assuming accurate reporting by Pugh on this point, the men do seem to have been extremely frightened. I had thought about road construction equipment parked up for the night but in all honesty, you'd think Lloyd would have been familiar with such sights. I do wish that Holiday had attempted to get a sketch from the witness as it's really very hard to visualise what the men thought they were seeing.
Agreed, it is the fear they experienced in addition to the unusual dimensions and lack of movement or craft they strongly suggest to me it wasn't a hoax or simple misidentification. It wasn't a fleeting glimpse either, as the truck was climbing up the hill. However, they were on the opposite side of the road to them so how much light did those eight headlights actually cast upon them as they passed their location?

Another factor is not being able to see their legs at any point, which is highly suggestive of ghost sightings but also reflective jackets and dark trousers or a black vehicle chassis. I do feel with this case that it's not enough just to say they mistook a vehicle , equipment or a barrier of some sorts for the humanoids without demonstrating a reasonable likeness under those conditions.

Also, looking at that old road and the approximate location, unless they were in the bus stop layby I am struggling to place 14+ feet of humanoid besides the road ("the grass verge") unless they were in a gateway, which would throw up more possibilities, especially given it was August and harvesting time.

Oh, and they appeared to be holding something between them or were they fixed together at that point? I do feel this warrants its own thread.
 
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It is difficult to visualise someone seven foot tall and seven foot wide and without legs, isn't that essentially a square with a 'head' on top, or did they mean the shoulders were seven foot wide but then tapered to the chest?
The article quoted says 'huge figures about seven feet high and correspondingly wide.'
I take that to mean they were a shape which corresponded to a humanoid figure, so were somewhat narrower than they were tall. It doesn't mean they were seven foot wide.

Note that a tall human wearing a 'celluloid' costume could easily be seven foot tall once you take into account the headpiece. These could have been construction workers wearing protective clothing, or people in biohazard suits responding to a dangerous goods incident. Or just a training exercise.

an anti-chemical attack suit, seemingly made of 'celluloid'.
360px-Chemical_agent_protection.jpg


Or people in fancy dress, or transparent rain gear, or even a pair of badly made scarecrows.
 
The article quoted says 'huge figures about seven feet high and correspondingly wide.'
I take that to mean they were a shape which corresponded to a humanoid figure, so were somewhat narrower than they were tall. It doesn't mean they were seven foot wide.

Note that a tall human wearing a 'celluloid' costume could easily be seven foot tall once you take into account the headpiece. These could have been construction workers wearing protective clothing, or people in biohazard suits responding to a dangerous goods incident. Or just a training exercise.

an anti-chemical attack suit, seemingly made of 'celluloid'.
360px-Chemical_agent_protection.jpg


Or people in fancy dress, or transparent rain gear, or even a pair of badly made scarecrows.
Does look somewhat like what they described, however, I can definitely remember the primary witness describing how "so incredibly broad" they were or words to that effect. This may have been in the Paget book or Pugh & Holiday, I will check but it does seem the original interview described them as seven feet wide.

I keep thinking of the reflective material now used with horses for protection from traffic at night:

https://barnstapleequestriansupplie...rdin-cadence-reflective-hi-viz-riding-jackets

A horse wearing one of these would give you seven foot tall and seven foot wide and then arguably the rider in their reflective jackets were the "Busbie hats, with the parts of the horse and rider not wearing reflective gear not visible (hence no legs).

However, I am not at all certain such material was available and in use for this purpose in 1978.
equisafety-charlotte-dujardin-cadence-reflective-hi-viz-riding-jackets-pink-medium-equisafety-...jpg
 
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Curiously, this figure does look pretty broad compared to a normal human being.

If this event were an Army training exercise against chemical attack, it would be another example of a training exercise in Wales misconstrued by local witnesses.
 
Is there any aspect of military equipment that might explain the apparent shoulder-mounted 'aerials'?

The Clansman 349 radio in a holster might do, although these aerials aren't shiny I think.

capture6.jpg
 
You could perhaps imagine Lloyd had seen two NCOs (radios only being issued to NCOs) conferring over a map or similar during an exercise. However, I can't find any images of British Army protective gear in the period which remotely match the colour reported.
 
A
Is there any aspect of military equipment that might explain the apparent shoulder-mounted 'aerials'?

The Clansman 349 radio in a holster might do, although these aerials aren't shiny I think.

View attachment 69792
Good fit bar the fact the military have never been fond of bright reflective colours as you highlight, other than on military vehicles whilst being used on British roads in peacetime
 
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For context this 1977 edition of FSR has a comprehensive round-up of the West wales humanoid and UFO flap:

http://www.ignaciodarnaude.com/avistamientos_ovnis/Pugh,UFOs 1977,West Wales,FSR77V23N1.pdf

Exciting time storms be into Ufology...!

Also some video here from the ITV archive:


The Mark Marston [02:00] encounter is an interesting one, he seems genuine and evidently saw something that "jumped over the gate as if power-assisted" according to Paget when he interviewed him for his 'Welsh Triangle' book. This is the transcript of his remarks in the video:

"[Mark Marston, talking about 15/04/77 sighting] This thing got out the hedge and it jumped over - jumped over this gate and there was something, like, wrong about it. No man could jump that gate."

https://www.babiafi.co.uk/2022/06/harlech-tv-1978-milford-haven-report.html

"He described the figure as being dressed in a silver suit like a diver, with a big helmet and a square featureless face"

...and:

"Mark ran home to 14, St Margaret's Way, screaming and crying. "That's the only reason we believed him," said his father, Mr Terry Marston. "He was very frightened. His story was the same very time and we couldn't catch him out".

There is a lot more to this sighting as other witnesses had previously seen a glowing object in the sky and Mark and others saw a red glow "like a sunset" at the time of his encounter. I have also mentioned this case on the Morayshire Entity thread and the full details are found in this online copy of 'The Dyfed Enigma' (scroll down until you find the map of Herbrandston:

https://www.babiafi.co.uk/2022/02/the-dyfed-enigma.html
 
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Several of these encounters have a genuine dreamlike quality about them, like a lot of CE3s. Marsden is chased by a faceless, silver suited figure that then stops under a streetlamp:

I was standing still watching him and he was standing still watching me and he was wriggling his fingers like this

What is that detail about "wriggling" fingers? It's purely the logic of childhood nightmares. Similarly Cyril John's metallic "egg" swinging pendulum-like in the predawn sky accompanied by a motionless silver figure suspended in mid-air - this is surely a dream image (perhaps the pendulum motion reflected his underlying thoughts about having to get up early to drive his OAPs' coach trip).
 
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Does look somewhat like what they described, however, I can definitely remember the primary witness describing how "so incredibly broad" they were or words to that effect. This may have been in the Paget book or Pugh & Holiday, I will check but it does seem the original interview described them as seven feet wide.

I keep thinking of the reflective material now used with horses for protection from traffic at night:

https://barnstapleequestriansupplie...rdin-cadence-reflective-hi-viz-riding-jackets

A horse wearing one of these would give you seven foot tall and seven foot wide and then arguably the rider in their reflective jackets were the "Busbie hats, with the parts of the horse and rider not wearing reflective gear not visible (hence no legs).

However, I am not at all certain such material was available and in use for this purpose in 1978.View attachment 69793
I was riding out in 1978 and we had nothing like this. The best we could do was white leg bandages and lights. We didn't have fluorescent riding wear or horsewear.
 
Thanks...!
In fact, as far as I remember, we were discouraged from ever riding at night, because there wasn't the tech available to make us visible, particularly if riding a dark coloured beast. And most riding wear was also dark.

Although I don't know about police horses...
 
Now, another Dyfed Enigma case did put me strongly in mind of an image from this thread;

The article quoted says 'huge figures about seven feet high and correspondingly wide.'
I take that to mean they were a shape which corresponded to a humanoid figure, so were somewhat narrower than they were tall. It doesn't mean they were seven foot wide.

Note that a tall human wearing a 'celluloid' costume could easily be seven foot tall once you take into account the headpiece. These could have been construction workers wearing protective clothing, or people in biohazard suits responding to a dangerous goods incident. Or just a training exercise.

an anti-chemical attack suit, seemingly made of 'celluloid'.
360px-Chemical_agent_protection.jpg


Or people in fancy dress, or transparent rain gear, or even a pair of badly made scarecrows.

This is the Steve Taylor CE3 on 13 March 1977 on the boundary of Brawdy airbase. Here the entity was said to be dressed in "a suit on which seemed to be transparent but wasn't. I can't explain that". Well, how about transparent anti chemical gear over military clothing?

The figure also had "a sort of breathing-apparatus thing like divers have (cutting out Pugh's usual leading questions here) I didn't notice any hair, you see. So he could have had a helmet on. And there were large eyes". So perhaps a respirator, with the characteric box at the front, with the large round eyes (which Taylor said were like those of a "fish") suggested by the respirator's eyeholes?
 
The military have been using chemical protection suits since WWI, and training in their use continues, despite that fact that chemical warfare has not been commonplace since the end of that conflict.

Having said that, there have been an estimated million casualties of chemical weapons in the last century or so since the end of the Great War, more than happened in that conflict.
https://disarmament.unoda.org/wmd/chemical/

And of course there may be more widespread use and development of chemical weapons in the future.
 
Now, another Dyfed Enigma case did put me strongly in mind of an image from this thread;



This is the Steve Taylor CE3 on 13 March 1977 on the boundary of Brawdy airbase. Here the entity was said to be dressed in "a suit on which seemed to be transparent but wasn't. I can't explain that". Well, how about transparent anti chemical gear over military clothing?

The figure also had "a sort of breathing-apparatus thing like divers have (cutting out Pugh's usual leading questions here) I didn't notice any hair, you see. So he could have had a helmet on. And there were large eyes". So perhaps a respirator, with the characteric box at the front, with the large round eyes (which Taylor said were like those of a "fish") suggested by the respirator's eyeholes?
It really as does make sense: location, chemical suit and respirator.

However, my understanding is that he was on the footpath and then noticed something blocking the airbase lights (the UFO). He then lit a cigarette and in doing so after dark gave away his presence to anyone nearby. I can well remember from my youth just how visible lighting a cigarette was at night and in darkness,

So if there are military in chemical suits involved in some sort of clandestine exercise adjacent - but not on - the airbase, they now have an opportunity to slip away into the darkness or behind whatever the large object was. But no, one of them appears in front of him, scaring him witless and ensuring Ufologists and journalists will be combing the area for days to come...

So what if it wasn't a teenage boy but the Base Commander and his wife strolling back from drinks in the village? Or police officers, or pillar of the local community, or a journalist? Or even a farmer with a loaded shotgun? Okay, I'll stop now but it just seems needlessly reckless behaviour on the part of the military or whoever and contrary to their training to give away their operation so cheaply.
 
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Thank you dear, your pants are now etched into my mind lol
 
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Occupants's?

X
:) Yup. . . your quite right. . . my mistake, "Oh pants!" I wonder if 'pant' means only one leg ~ apart from breathing heavily that is? :yeahthat:
 
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:) Yup. . . your quite right. . . my mistake, "Oh pants!" I wonder if 'pant' means only one leg ~ apart from breathing heavily that is? :yeahthat:
*Just checked this out and it seems that 'pant' is correct. . .
Pant.png

So to be correct. . . I'm posting this instead
1698228354041.png
:)
 
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How is it looking in the US? Are people getting more inclined to see them as demons instead of aliens?
 
Obligatory rebuttal of Kecksburg.
The Kecksburg, Pennsylvania "UFO Crash" -by Robert Sheaffer

The Kecksburg Index - by Tim Printy
This includes
Chapter 1: A dark December evening.
Chapter 2: Excitement in the woods
Chapter 3: Science has the answer - (this page is missing, but I've reproduced part of it in this post)
Chapter 4: Out of the ashes.
Chapter 5: An earthly source?
Chapter 6: Science FICTION versus Science FACT

Chapter 7: Crash or crock?

Tim Printy's Sunlite 3.6 - includes several articles by Robert Young, including one demonstrating that the object fell in Ontario.

Kecksburg UFO Crash, Tim Printy and Steven Paquette

NASA lawsuit over Kecksburg UFO Documents -after being a proponent of the Kosmos 96 theory, Jim Oberg changes his mind. The Kecksburg object was a meteor(that fell in Ontario).
------------------
More here in the thread about Kecksburg.
https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/the-kecksburg-pennsylvania-incident-1965.7280/

Long story short; nothing to it. Complete garbage.
 
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