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Arizona Wilder/ Jennifer Ann Greene?

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Anonymous

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Can anyone point to me site or reference that elucidates on the back story and claims of Arizona Wilder/ Jennifer Ann Greene? She basically sells the reptillian conspiracy stuff. David Icke bought into her claims strongly.

Can any of her claims be backed up? Or is she a disinformation merchant?
 
I am a student of much of the conspiracy theory industry and, naively or not, Icke and Alex Jones muddy a lot of water, but their "sources" can muddy it even more.
Arizona Wilder is on 'Confessions of a Mother Goddess' or some such David Icke DVD, and physically sounds as if she is making up what she says as she goes along.
She reminds me of the kind of female guru that started Icke and Glen Hoddle on their paths to infamy. Incidentally, anyone recall muted tabloid stories about a celebrity "swingers" club that did their thing in London in the early nineties - lots of drug taking and 'New Age' stuff going on? Icke and Hoddle's epiphanies may have come out of that culture.
 
Supposedly from what is related in the link below David Icke was introduced to "Arizona Wilder" by a man named Brian Desborough. Supposedly he has ties with the aerospace industry. The Google search doesnt turn up much on him. Can anyone give info on Desborough and what his agenda is?

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=54
 
The way it has been explained to me is this:
Icke and Hoddle were the two most public figures in Britain who consorted with a plethora of New Age "gurus" that goes back to the mid-eighties and through to the rise of Carol Caplin.
Using a blend of the theories of Lawrence Gardner and a soupcon of Von Daniken - and leaving those theories to one side (anyone who looks at the interrelatedness of the rulers of the world at a basic geneaological level knows all is not as cut and dried as the mainstream worldview would make it appear.) - a splinter of the Green Party, not without some right-wing "Thule" style personalities kicking around, intended to form their own protest group. Their pretext was that Greenpeace and the Green Party was infested with secret service.
An adjunct of this clique was the holding of several New-Age themed pot parties in and around the homes of, among others, Icke and Hoddle. At these parties, my source claims, all involved would imbibe anything from pot to peyote and excite each other into states of delirium.
Icke became so hooked on the "circuit", it was claimed, that he became infatuated with one female guru, an associate of Betty Shine. He was introduced to Shine who ended up telling him to wear turquois. that he was a manifestation of the godhead and various prophecies.
This resulted in Icke's notorious appearance on 'Wogan'.
Targetting sports and media personalities such as Hoddle and Icke proved lucrative for the mainly female New-Agers.
My source is hazy on the details, but Icke eventually split completely from the New Age cell, ultimately all but renouncing his behaviour in 1998 with the breaking of the story that Glen Hoddle, then England soccer manager, believed handicapped people to have been sinful people in a previous lives, a notion arrived at through time spent communing with Betty Shine "disciple" Eileen Drewery.
Desborough appears to be part of this "other" global network, an industry of New-Age gurus and people hired, such as Wilder, to play out the speculation of those such as Icke - to the point she even points an accusing finger of being a lizard at Zachariah Sitchin!
Don't get me wrong, if you go back to William Bramley and Lawrence Gardner, not to mention Jordan Maxwell, there is worthy stuff there, skewing our view of the universe using accessable facts.
Icke, however, is just a hair away from selling his and his readerships' soul. Why should we pay for his website? Why continue paying for his books?
 
That was interesting, its the first lucid explaination I have had as to why Icke started spouting all the crap that he does.I knew that he was connected to some dodgy right wing groups in some way.
I love the way that if you write utter bollocks in the new science field then you are an 'investigator'

Investigative writer-researcher Brian Desborough puts his faith in the youth of the world.

"This will require the creation of a word-of-mouth pandemic, spread in particular by college students, since their high testosterone levels sustain activism in causes in which they believe," writes Desborough. "Unlike previous eras, when national let alone transnational communication was virtually impossible, the present day internet provides the means by which such a communication pandemic can be accomplished."

I bet some of the female students will be a little surprised by Brians ideas.
 
Otto_Maddox said:
KarlD said:
I knew that he was connected to some dodgy right wing groups in some way.

so you unquestioningly believe Kellydandodi's wild and unsubstantiated allegations but not Icke's? that makes clear, rational sense.
yep as icke is clearly insane and has a mind so open he collects any and all of the most irrational crap and publishes it. I tend to believe what I read about his connections to right wing groups and I believe that he suffers from associating with deeply strange people who feed him bullshit which he then repeats in his books.

I have never met anyone who thinks that Icke is sane so you are the first who seems to think he has been unfairly treated.
 
Otto_Maddox said:
pray tell, what information do you have on Icke? if you have never met anyone who doesn't think Icke is insane then you must have a very limited circle of acquaintances. either that or you use a non-medical definition of sanity/insanity.

just because someone has a viewpoint very different to yours it doesn't make them insane. i am not seeking to defend or attack Icke, but i very much dislike the way lazy people label him as insane when he clearly isn't. eccentric, misguided, off-the-wall, plain wrong maybe. but he is not insane. get a job in a psychiatric hospital if you want to know what insane means.

Unless anyone here is a qualified psychiatrist and has undertaken a complete clinical review of Mr Icke's mental health, I don't think his sanity can be confirmed one way or the other. We all have our opinions of course.
 
Indeed. Oiver James is a clinical psychologist and he has talked to Icke, so he is probably in one of the best positions to comment on this. His conclusion is that he isn't mad:

www.guardian.co.uk/society/2004/feb/08/ ... h.features

I'm not in any position to do better than that but I have swapped a few emails with him and (while he has proved a little difficult to pin down) there was nothing to suggest he has any serious mental problems. He writes a lot of books and has his own little alternative media empire (as well as being a caring Dad if the documentary footage is anything to go by). Which would be difficult to sustain if you were totally off your rocker (not a medical term or opinion ;) ).

He has had a strange experience (which may or may not have been a delusional state or a breakdown - Oliver James seems to think it might but the descriptions I've read are difficult to pin down) and has spent a long time trying to find answers to that. These answers are pretty far from the norm and some are bordering on the abhorrent for a lot of people but that general journey is one that a lot of people have undertaken. Just because someone has some strange beliefs doesn't make them mad (as how strange your belief system is all relative) acting on those beliefs in a destructive way can do (although even then if you can get enough people on your side then history might judge you differently - I don't think many people describe the Crusaders as mad, for example). So if he went on a "They Live" style shooting spree in the middle of London to fight back against the reptilians then I think that it would be fair enough to suggest he was mad, until then I'm going to have to stick with Oliver James' opinion.

I think this is potentially, the most intriguing angle on the Icke situation and suggests things are more complex than the tabloid take on Icke suggests.

wowsah156 said:
Supposedly from what is related in the link below David Icke was introduced to "Arizona Wilder" by a man named Brian Desborough. Supposedly he has ties with the aerospace industry. The Google search doesnt turn up much on him. Can anyone give info on Desborough and what his agenda is?

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=54
 
Mighty_Emperor said:
until then I'm going to have to stick with Oliver James' opinion.

I'd lean towards agreeing with James, but I think it's important to point out that a) he's not a psychiatrist and b) he only bases his opinion on one interview for a television programme. A full psychiatric assessment would require much more. However, this is a field he's very experienced in so I appreciate he knows what he's talking about.

And, of course, there is a vast difference between being clinically insane and suffering from mental health issues. It's clear that Icke had some kind of breakdown. How much he has recovered from that or how much he has learned to cope with that by doing the work he does is still open to conjecture, in my opinion.

Still, while the world is filled with millions of people who have an imaginary friend in the sky, I don't think Icke need worry too much about his mental state.
 
Dr_Baltar said:
Mighty_Emperor said:
until then I'm going to have to stick with Oliver James' opinion.

I'd lean towards agreeing with James, but I think it's important to point out that a) he's not a psychiatrist and b) he only bases his opinion on one interview for a television programme. A full psychiatric assessment would require much more. However, this is a field he's very experienced in so I appreciate he knows what he's talking about.

Indeed, but if a psychiatrist had examined him he wouldn't ethically be allowed to discuss his findings unless the patient agreed to it, in which case there would be a lot of chin-stroking general scepticism. So I don't think Icke can win in such circumstances. So James might be the best we'll be able to get, which is better than the general uninformed opinions.
 
Mighty_Emperor said:
So I don't think Icke can win in such circumstances.

Or lose? ;)

So James might be the best we'll be able to get, which is better than the general uninformed opinions.

Agreed wholeheartedly (although my uninformed opinion is still that Icke's got a couple of kangaroos loose in the top paddock. Then again, a lot of us have :) ).
 
What I wrote was an account of the history of Icke's life in politics and then the mini-empire he has created. Not for one second do I postulate that he is mad - his theories have substance in many areas. His associations have been naive, that is all.
Otto_maddox - I'm sorry that I cannot reference or divulge my sources.
 
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