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Art Representing Humans To Aliens (Pioneer Plaques)

So has the 'planetary' model analogy for (sub) atomic physics become even less than it (loosely) was before? I don't detect this comparative scaling model being currently used in schools the way it was back in the 1970s. I found it useful, but was it a false crutch, an unsubstantiable metaphor?

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The planetary model worked very well with Newtonian physics. But we have moved on.

Very many people still use the 'conventional' model of current flow in electronics. The was an attempt, back in the seventies, to teach 'hole theory'. Hoping to literally stand the common belief on it's head. But it confused more than it helped.

INT21.
 
The planetary model worked very well with Newtonian physics. But we have moved on.

Very many people still use the 'conventional' model of current flow in electronics. The was an attempt, back in the seventies, to teach 'hole theory'. Hoping to literally stand the common belief on it's head. But it confused more than it helped.

INT21.
Hole theory worked by representing materials as having gaps that current can flow though. It's not hard to grasp, unless you try to reconcile it with the electron orbit based visualization. The two methods of diagramming just don't work together. Hole theory is like the way they do rail line charts. It's a colored squiggle that only vaguely approximates the physical shape of the line. hole theory works quite well in showing things like how doped crystals can be conductors far better than the "conventional" way. Understanding HOW electrons move is in some applications far more important than trying to visualize what they look like.
 
Hole theory worked by representing materials as having gaps that current can flow though. It's not hard to grasp, unless you try to reconcile it with the electron orbit based visualization. The two methods of diagramming just don't work together. Hole theory is like the way they do rail line charts. It's a colored squiggle that only vaguely approximates the physical shape of the line. hole theory works quite well in showing things like how doped crystals can be conductors far better than the "conventional" way. Understanding HOW electrons move is in some applications far more important than trying to visualize what they look like.

I have no problem with that.

I always use conventional current flow anyway. Keeping in mind that electron flow apples to the flow through the power source (battery). As long as one has a surfeit of electrons somewhere then you can have a current.
 
Where did it go?
Are ya'll talking about that pic I posted in the WTF thread?

I might be wrong, but ... I think Frideswide's "Here you go" referred to the quote from escargot rather than an image.
 
Hmmm... thinking again I'm not entirely sure I correctly identified what you meant by "hole theory".

there are a wide variety of ways Humans diagram atoms:
FG05_26.JPG

What most people think of is what that chart calls the "Bohr" method or something similar.
42-atom.jpg

But for diagramming molecules, variants of the Dalton" method are often used.
molecules-and+-atoms.gif

I have seen a variant of this (not sure where, it was years ago) where, instead of featureless balls, the atoms were labeled and not necessarily round.
Oxygen.png

this is a recreation I made based on how I remember it. The two notches are to represent how oxygen atoms like to grab 2 electrons in their environment.

It's hard to say how another civilization might choose to depict such things. :) Maybe Greys diagram atoms to look like spiky things with the spikes representing electrons?
 
I think that 'hole theory' was pushed as a way of correcting the problem created by the use of the convention of presenting electronic circuit diagrams with the Positive power rail at the top.
This led people (who generally didn't need to go too deeply into atomic structure to be able to do their job) to assume the flow was from Positive to Negative. i.e from a surplus of electrons at the Positive rail down to the Negative rail, which would have a deficit.
It appears that the flow is actually the other way.
This caused much confusion, and folks who had been quite happily constructing circuits suddenly were no longer sure why they worked.
One way around this confusion was to assume the pos to neg flow was in the supply, not the load.

By introducing hole theory one could visualise the flow in the correct direction.

Essentially it is a case of Electron flow versus Current flow.

It is of interest if one is picturing the difference in operation between PNP and NPN transistors.
 
Well I grew up thinking of electrons as - charge, so assumed the - side on a battery was labeled because that's where the electrons came from. So the + side is the hole the electrons flow into?
 
Well I grew up thinking of electrons as - charge, so assumed the - side on a battery was labeled because that's where the electrons came from. So the + side is the hole the electrons flow into?

Essentially, yes.

Now you see how it can be confusing. Best to forget it unless you really need to use it.
 
sounds like it was simply a way to visualize current flow for people who didn't really understand electricity?
 
sounds like it was simply a way to visualize current flow for people who didn't really understand electricity?

Probably, but it just confused most who didn't need that level of knowledge.

A bit like maths, one can get by most days without needing to know quadratics and integration.

Basic algebra and trig' will suffice for most things.
 
Anyways, the thing with the atom diagrams was about how I learned to think of atom/molecules as having "holes" that can grab free electrons in the environment. :p
 
does it really matter what we put there as long as it is easy to comprehend that it is not naturally-made? We could put animation of Rubik Cube being solved AFAIK... just make it sure it is not naturally-made...

The Pioneer (or any other ... ) space probe alone should be sufficient to cue others the object's creators were a technologically capable species.

No plaque was required to get across the message there was a species producing artifacts somewhere out there and launching them off into the interstellar void.

The point of the plaque was to attempt to express something more about us than this single obvious fact.
 
... We could put animation of Rubik Cube being solved AFAIK ...

If there's one presentation tactic I'd recommend to make a newer-generation plaque (whatever ... ) more understandable to a non-human mentality it would be animation.

However, this raises even more issues related to second-guessing any alien readers' perceptual and technical capabilities.

Such second-guessing is unavoidable even for static images ... A holographic presentation allowing the human figures to be viewed three-dimensionally would be a big help - provided the readers had similar 3D vision and perhaps lasers to aid in reading and decoding holographically recorded material.

Our animation / motion picture tech has always relied on rapidly successive display of static snapshots (frames), because our human eyes and visual processing re-render the fast-moving series of static images as if they were a continuous trace of actual motion. How could we be sure alien viewers used similar motion imagery at all, much less whether they implemented it in the same general way we did? Furthermore, how sure could we be that an illusion of motion designed around the limitations and quirks of our own visual systems would be perceived the same way with alien eyes?
 
Furthermore, how sure could we be that an illusion of motion designed around the limitations and quirks of our own visual systems would be perceived the same way with alien eyes?

In a sci-fi story I read years ago, the last remnants of the human race are burying some artifacts before the ice overtakes them.

Much later Aliens find the artifacts, and work out that they are cans of films. They also work out how to project them.
After watching the film, they discuss what they have seen.

'But how violent they were!, it is amazing they survived for so long'.

'Yes, but very resilient, note how they recover quickly and carry on'.

However non of them could make out the bit of text at the end. it said.

A Walt Disney Production.
 
Then there's the question of if the race would even perceive the plaque as information. It's possible not all races use scratched metal to store data.

Agreed ... All the attention given to coding the graphic and numerical data would be wasted if alien viewers didn't recognize engraved lines on a 2D surface as a mode of data recording or presentation.
 
Unless aliens intercepted and captured the Pioneer probe for closer inspection they may not notice the engraving on the plaque at all.

The plaque was installed on the strutwork connecting the main antenna to the probe's central body. The engraved (message) side was deliberately positioned facing inward rather than outward so as to minimize damage / erosion from objects encountered in its journey.

Here's an illustration of the inward-facing engraved message.

pioneer10-plaque-position.jpg

Here's how the plaque appears from outside the probe.

news-051717b-lg.jpg
 
Jon Lomberg, who created a lot of the imagery for Carl Sagan's Cosmos TV programme, made this image for the Voyager Record; but the naked people were replaced by a silhouette at the last moment. ...

Also note that Lomberg's rendition has the figures in a walking stance rather than a static standing pose (compared to the original Pioneer plaque).
 
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