Artificial Intelligence (A.I.)

INT21

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'I deny everything'

'No use denying it. Come on lad, back to the Matrix; we missed you'.

INT21
 

Cochise

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..
ESPECIALLY SINCE EVERYTHING ON THIS FORUM IS BEING POSTED
COURTESY OF ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE!.
.

The apparent intelligence of some of the posters varies from quite low to quite high. Seems to depend on the mood they are in.

But I would like to see your proof that any of them are artificial.

INT21
So far, nothing approaching an artificial representation of human intelligence has even been constructed theoretically, let alone an actuality. I would not call any of the current computing systems 'intelligent'. But at a certain level of complexity (which they now exceed) they can look intelligent enough to fool the uninitiated.

But they are still glorified tape recorders that fundamentally do nothing more than record human logic and replay it mindlessly. If the data input is incorrect, the results will still be incorrect, and the machine will only tell you that they are incorrect if a human has anticipated the situation and programmed for it. And programmed correctly.
 

AlienView

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And now.......

"
World’s Largest Neuromorphic Supercomputer Activated

"
Historic Milestone Achieved at the Intersect of Technology and the Human Brain

"
Today British scientists at The University of Manchester made history by switching on the world’s largest “human brain” supercomputer called the “Spiking Neural Network Architecture” (SpiNNaker) machine.

The SpiNNaker, first conceived in 2006 with initial funding by the U.K.-based Engineering and Physical Sciences Research Council (EPSRC), cost £15 million to create, and over a decade to build. It’s now supported by the European Human Brain Project (HBP), a research initiative in neuroscience, medicine and computing. The HBP is a 10-year project funded by the European Union that started in 2013. It employs 500 scientists at more than 100 universities, research facilities, and teaching hospitals across Europe.

SpiNNaker was built under the leadership of Professor Steve Furber at The University of Manchester, a principal designer of two products that earned the Queen's Award for Technology —the ARM 32-bit RISC microprocessor, and the BBC Microcomputer.

“The ultimate objective for the project has always been a million cores in a single computer for real time brain modelling applications, and we have now achieved it, which is fantastic.” - Professor Steve Furber, The University of Manchester

Inspired by the human brain, the SpiNNaker is capable of sending billions of small amounts of information simultaneously. The SpiNNaker has a staggering 1 million processors that are able to perform over 200 million actions per second........."

See whole article here:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...-largest-neuromorphic-supercomputer-activated
 

Swifty

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You'll find this 3 day old video report from The Wall Street Journal interesting then ..

A bit more deep fake trickery .. and NSFW for a bit of swearing


Something a bit more light hearted

 
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INT21

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It would be interesting to have an AI member create it's own profile and join in here. And how long would it be before someone noticed.

INT21.
 

AlienView

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It would be interesting to have an AI member create it's own profile and join in here. And how long would it be before someone noticed.

INT21.
I wonder how far the state of the art has already progressed? - Are there advances in AI that could already
fool you? - Could the machine make a fool of the Human reading the data output?

Can you really be sure that already a programmed machine could not post here as a Human
and fool the Humans communicating with it.

Think about this in real time now - Are you talking to a supposed Human poster using the name
AlienView - Or are you communicating with a machine 'supposedly' interpreting the words of
AlienView?

And how do I know, and how can you prove that you are in fact a Human
- All that is talking to me here is a mahine - The Human element is assumed.
 

Tribble

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China's war on jaywalking went to the next level last spring when AI-based facial recognition systems were integrated into some crosswalks, to punish jaywalkers by squirting them with water, sending them texts warning them about legal consequences of jaywalking, and/or publicly shaming them by displaying their pictures and names on large digital billboards.

Last week, this system entered a new and exciting failure mode when a traffic-cam in the port city of Ningbo captured a face displayed on the side of a passing bus, correctly identified it as belonging to Dong Mingzhu, CEO of Chinese AC giant Gree Electric Appliances, and then plastered Ms Dong's face all over a giant billboard, falsely accusing her of jaywalking.


https://boingboing.net/2018/11/26/just-dont-have-a-face.html
 

AlienView

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AlienView,

...All that is talking to me here is a mahine - The Human element is assumed. ...

You are human, a machine would not have made that spelling mistake.

INT21
My machine did not make that spelling mistake - Your machine printed the word wrong

And this was probably not a misprint - Rather it is part of the 'machine conspiracy' to take over
- Not to worry though it's already too late - The machines already have control!

Luckily I like machines better than Humans anyway - "So What Me Worry"?
 

INT21

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...Luckily I like machines better than Humans anyway - "So What Me Worry"? ..

But do they like you ? Maybe there is reason to worry.

And if your machine is sending out spelling mistakes in your name is that just the thin edge of the wedge ?

Today a missed letter; tomorrow an unnecessary semi-colon.

I can hear the far edge of civilisation beginning to crumble.

INT21.
 

Cochise

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I'm quite sure a programmed machine is not on here pretending to be a poster. My old boss, a brilliant guy, left our company to develop a neural network AI machine in 1992. It still hasn't happened, because the architecture is wrong.

Success will be achieved when a machine can truly program itself - and that is probably the point where we should get out the axes.
 

skinny

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^
https://lotusguide.com/artificial-intelligence/
Excerpt:
Let’s talk about Sophia, the female robot that Saudi Arabia made a citizen. From a distance it would be difficult to tell if Sophia were real or not, and Hanson Robotics freely admits that she is the first generation and it is already on the fourth generation, which it is not showing us … or maybe it has and we didn’t recognize her. Sophia is equipped with WiFi and is tapped into the Cloud so her information is well beyond anything a human could do at this point, and she’s getting smarter, wiser, and is now demanding her rights as a citizen … and yes, she wants to have a baby and a family some day.









:wide:
 

AlienView

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… and yes, she wants to have.......
Now, Let's go over those few words carefully.........

Are you saying SHE WANTS is a fact? - If fact you are saying the machine has conscious will
- In a sense it is alive!

Is it? - Is this machine version of a Human female in some sense alive?

Will it ever be? - Or will there come a day in the not too distant futures where this issue needs to be determined?
 

Cochise

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The programmer is saying 'I want' . The robot has not thought it up by itself. The levels of self-delusion that operate in connection with AI have to be experienced to be believed.

Edit - when someone can explain to me a machine architecture that is capable of independent thought I might believe such a thing is possible. Note also that I am talking of AI as strictly meaning human intelligence. There is one technique - fuzzy logic - that does permit a machine to 'learn' better choices in a strictly controlled environment - for example managing air conditioning systems.
 

EnolaGaia

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The programmer is saying 'I want' . The robot has not thought it up by itself. The levels of self-delusion that operate in connection with AI have to be experienced to be believed. ...
As a former AI researcher and applied AI professional I can attest to this.

There had always been a popular misconception that AI was dedicated to understanding and replicating what we humans self-describe as our 'intelligence'. This derived from grandiose claims made as far back as the 1950's, reinforced by sci-fi tropes of seemingly 'intelligent' machines and the emergence of theories, models, and memes associating the 'intelligence' behind 'intelligent' action to logical manipulations on representations.

Regardless of whether this was the field's intention, AI went off in an entirely different direction.

The two key waypoints in this diversion were:

- The 1956 Dartmouth Conference, after which the mainstream doctrinal orientation to explaining 'calculated' behavior (in the figurative sense) became models based on 'calculation' (in the logical / mathematical sense), and

- The rise and proliferation of the Simon / Newell model of representationalism that infected everything from management studies to what passed for cognitive psychology at the time (late 1950's onward).

In practice the original objective was to simulate or emulate behaviors or outcomes to which we ascribe 'intelligent' processes as intrinsic requirements. Such processes were typically framed with respect to discrimination, categorization, and inference. The practical outcomes were 'intelligent' apps (e.g., 'expert systems') that could aid humans in dealing with complex decision spaces within very well defined problem areas.

By the middle of the 1980's certain auxiliary research fields (most particularly machine learning and natural language processing (NLP)) had developed and demonstrated results of sufficient sophistication to fake people into believing we were on the right path toward conquering 'learning' and 'language' - the two primary obstacles in emulating human 'intelligent' behavior with some measure of flexibility if not independence.

All this represented reasonable and constructive work with regard to emulating 'intelligent' behavior. None of it represented reasonable or constructive progress in understanding the 'intelligence' supposedly being emulated. The great delusion lay in mistaking the former as demonstrating the latter.

Then the neural net / neural simulation fad exploded on the scene. At that point the great delusion gained new impetus based on the presumption that if it was configured like a brain, and operated like a brain, it must be a reasonable surrogate for whatever the **** the brain seems to be doing. It was at this point I lost all hope and began moving away from the field of AI.

All along, the key issues of circular causality, self-organization, and self-reference were ignored or left to practitioners of fields the AI forefathers shouldered out of their way - or even actively suppressed - in their rush to frame everything in terms of formalisms and algorithms. If the neural net contingent hadn't arrived on the scene in the late 1980's to inject a second wave of enthusiasm for the great delusion I suspect the field of AI would have crashed and withered by the turn of the century.
 

EnolaGaia

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... There is one technique - fuzzy logic - that does permit a machine to 'learn' better choices in a strictly controlled environment - for example managing air conditioning systems.
The fuzzy logic fad was the last gasp attempt to add flexibility to the original representationalist / 'symbolic' form of AI. It was very useful in adding flexibility to inference mechanisms employed in intelligent aiding. Once the neural paradigm took hold, it largely supplanted fuzzy logic as the approach to handling shades of grey.
 

Cochise

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The fuzzy logic fad was the last gasp attempt to add flexibility to the original representationalist / 'symbolic' form of AI. It was very useful in adding flexibility to inference mechanisms employed in intelligent aiding. Once the neural paradigm took hold, it largely supplanted fuzzy logic as the approach to handling shades of grey.
Yeah I know :) But fuzzy logic is cool for 'simple' control applications - the Japanese have an automated underground/subway line run using a fuzzy logic app. It's able to use energy very efficiently since it can exactly balance the power output of the train to match load with the preset acceleration and line speed targets. It has other inputs as well, of course - temperature etc.
 

AlienView

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"Will artificial intelligence become conscious?
December 22, 2017
................


Mind and self-organizing systems
"It is possible that the phenomenon of consciousness requires a self-organizing system, like the brain’s physical structure. If so, then current machines will come up short.

Scholars don’t know if adaptive self-organizing machines can be designed to be as sophisticated as the human brain; we lack a mathematical theory of computation for systems like that. Perhaps it’s true that only biological machines can be sufficiently creative and flexible. But then that suggests people should – or soon will – start working on engineering new biological structures that are, or could become, conscious."

Quote source:
http://www.kurzweilai.net/will-artificial-intelligence-become-conscious



“People worry that computers will get too smart and take over the world, but the real problem is that they're too stupid and they've already taken over the world.”
― Pedro Domingos

Nonsense you say? - But are you really sure? - IF the machine is exponentially smarter than you,
how could you be sure it has not already created a matrix that you are trapped in?
- And that it is truly aware and you are not?
 

AlienView

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Now where are we today?

Machine

"A machine (or mechanical device) is a mechanical structure that uses power to apply forces and control movement to perform an intended action. Machines can be driven by animals and people, by natural forces such as wind and water, and by chemical, thermal, or electrical power, and include a system of mechanisms that shape the actuator input to achieve a specific application of output forces and movement. They can also include computers and sensors that monitor performance and plan movement, often called mechanical systems.
Renaissance natural philosophers identified six simple machines which were the elementary devices that put a load into motion, and calculated the ratio of output force to input force, known today as mechanical advantage.[1]
Modern machines are complex systems that consist of structural elements, mechanisms and control components and include interfaces for convenient use. Examples include a wide range of vehicles, such as automobiles, boatsand airplanes, appliances in the home and office, building air handling and water handling systems, as well as farm machinery, machine tools and factory automation systems and robots."
Quote source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine


In many ways the Universe is a machine - ceaselessly converting matter and energy - It is a perpetual motion
machine reconfiguring itself over and over - And man is inside the matrix of this machine whose meaning
and purpose still remains unknown.

But this machine that created, or at least let transpire the questioning species known as Man remains
an enigma - We don't know why it {the universe] exists - nor do we know its purpose - only to speculate
that it has a purpose as everything that occurs in the universe is shown by science to be driven by forces
of nature and to yield calculable equations - a start.

Here is where the real beauty of AI will manifest, as Relativity and Quantum theory expanded out knowledge
of the machine - AI will allow a further expansion - especially when Quantum Computes start calculating
- This is more important and more fascinating than whether we can {or cannot} create artificial intelligence
that is conscious of itself.

What the artificial intelligence of the future may do - is to allow Man for the first time to become
truly conscious - Conscious of himself and the true nature of the universe he lives in.
-AlienView
 
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Jim

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Now where are we today?

Machine


Quote source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine


In many ways the Universe is a machine - ceaselessly converting matter and energy - It is a perpetual motion
machine reconfiguring itself over and over - And man is inside the matrix of this machine whose meaning
and purpose still remains unknown.

But this machine that created, or at least let transpire the questioning species known as Man remains
an enigma - We don't know why it {the universe] exists - nor do we know its purpose - only to speculate
that it has a purpose as everything that occurs in the universe is shown by science to be driven by forces
of nature and to yield calculable equations - a start.

Here is where the real beauty of AI will manifest, as Relativity and Quantum theory expanded out knowledge
of the machine - AI will allow a further expansion - especially when Quantum Computes start calculating
- This is more important and more fascinating than whether we can {or cannot} create artificial intelligence
that is conscious of itself.

What the artificial intelligence of the future may do - is to allow Man for the first time to become
truly conscious - Conscious of himself and the true nature of the universe he lives in.
-AlienView
The universe is pretty much matter - energy: E = MC^2. I guess one could say a star is a machine of sorts converting very basic elements into more complex ones but concerning planets, asteroids, etc.? As for man yes he is a form of biological machine. this especially apparent on the cellular level.
https://www.nature.com/scitable/topic/cell-biology-13906536
 

Anome

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The universe is pretty much matter - energy: E = MC^2. I guess one could say a star is a machine of sorts converting very basic elements into more complex ones but concerning planets, asteroids, etc.? As for man yes he is a form of biological machine. this especially apparent on the cellular level.
https://www.nature.com/scitable/topic/cell-biology-13906536
You can kind of think of the universe as a machine that converts energy into entropy. The universe, as you put it, is made of energy, and that energy is slowly decaying into entropy, by going from a highly ordered state, the pre-Big Bang singularity to eventual heat death. The universe is just the way between total order, and total chaos.
 

AlienView

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Anyone read this book? - Is it worth reading?

"The Fourth Age: Smart Robots, Conscious Computers, and the Future of Humanity"
Hardcover – April 24, 2018
by Byron Reese (Author)

"From book:

"
“The Fourth Age not only discusses what the rise of A.I. will mean for us, it also forces readers to challenge their preconceptions. And it manages to do all this in a way that is both entertaining and engaging.” —The New York Times

"As we approach a great turning point in history when technology is poised to redefine what it means to be human, The Fourth Age offers fascinating insight into AI, robotics, and their extraordinary implications for our species.

In The Fourth Age, Byron Reese makes the case that technology has reshaped humanity just three times in history:

- 100,000 years ago, we harnessed fire, which led to language.

- 10,000 years ago, we developed agriculture, which led to cities and warfare.

- 5,000 years ago, we invented the wheel and writing, which lead to the nation state.

We are now on the doorstep of a fourth change brought about by two technologies: AI and robotics. The Fourth Age provides extraordinary background information on how we got to this point, and how—rather than what—we should think about the topics we’ll soon all be facing: machine consciousness, automation, employment, creative computers, radical life extension, artificial life, AI ethics, the future of warfare, superintelligence, and the implications of extreme prosperity.

By asking questions like “Are you a machine?” and “Could a computer feel anything?”, Reese leads you through a discussion along the cutting edge in robotics and AI, and, provides a framework by which we can all understand, discuss, and act on the issues of the Fourth Age, and how they’ll transform humanity."​
 

altered_boy

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i apologize if this has already been discussed within the 23 pages of this forum.... but I was curious. Setting aside the debate as to whether or not artificial intelligence will become conscious--what would happen when it does?

it seems to me that what people like Elon Musk are saying (and many people before him) seems the most plausible outcome, should AI become conscious. what i am referring to is that humans will essentially become the limbic system of the artificial intelligence hardware. otherwise we'll be wiped out eventually just out of mere lack of consequence to the AI itself. what do you all think of this idea?

with that in mind, I am of the opinion at this point that whether AI becomes conscious is not a matter of if, but when.
 

altered_boy

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“The Fourth Age not only discusses what the rise of A.I. will mean for us, it also forces readers to challenge their preconceptions. And it manages to do all this in a way that is both entertaining and engaging.” —The New York Times

"As we approach a great turning point in history when technology is poised to redefine what it means to be human, The Fourth Age offers fascinating insight into AI, robotics, and their extraordinary implications for our species.

In The Fourth Age, Byron Reese makes the case that technology has reshaped humanity just three times in history:

- 100,000 years ago, we harnessed fire, which led to language.

- 10,000 years ago, we developed agriculture, which led to cities and warfare.

- 5,000 years ago, we invented the wheel and writing, which lead to the nation state.
Interesting. Does this book mention anything about Prometheus as a side-note perhaps? While I am sure this could be explained in many different ways, what you have described is something that I always use Prometheus to describe. the idea of technology as a whole being archetypally represented by fire, and by its intuitive descent from the "heavens" into the material realm of consequence. I like where you are going with this, i will look into the book
 

James_H

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Setting aside the debate as to whether or not artificial intelligence will become conscious--what would happen when it does?
The answers to that depends on whether 'the singularity' is real or not. If not, things will go ahead as normal, albeit with some changes to society helped by AI. If so, everything goes bananas in a millisecond and humans are toast.
 

AlienView

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The answers to that depends on whether 'the singularity' is real or not. If not, things will go ahead as normal, albeit with some changes to society helped by AI. If so, everything goes bananas in a millisecond and humans are toast.
MAYBE? - You would be dealing with an unknown quantity - For all intensive purposes an Alien entity.

The machine mind would be reacting to its data base, programming, etc.

If the machine was basically programmed to win at games - It might decide to take over all
- Man might become a convenient tool for constructing and servicing more machines
- Does that sound familiar? - Maybe it has already taken over?

If the machine becomes aware of concepts like 'god' - It may decide its purpose is to be god
- an immortal supermind that is always right?

An interesting take on this is in one of the original episodes of Star Trek, Captain Kirk and crew come across
an out of control AI machine that is destroying whole planet systems - When the machine is somehow
brought aboard the ship they realize that it was programmed to correct imperfections and somehow the
original programming had become corrupted so the machine seeing the imperfections of different
civilizations destroyed them to correct the imperfections - Kirk reasons with the machine and convinces it that
it is also imperfect - The machine then destroys itself! - One of my favorite episodes.
 
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