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Asteroid Near-Misses (AKA: Holy Shit! We're All Going to Die)

ramonmercado

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“This is an animated depiction of the novel SHEPHERD spacecraft concept on a mission to gently stop a small asteroid from spinning and guide it into a different orbit by enclosing the target asteroid in a sealed fabric enclosure. Once captured, SHEPHERD introduces a one tenth atmosphere of Xenon gas to de-spin the asteroid and then blows Xenon gas at the asteroid to gently impart momentum (and an orbital change) to the object while matching the relative position of the spacecraft with thrust from it’s solar electric propulsion engine. In this way SHEPHERD can securely handle and drive even a fragile, pristine and ancient asteroid to its destination. This mission is to release the asteroid in Lunar orbit for a human crew to approach and collect samples for science ...

http://hplusmagazine.com/2015/08/21/video-friday-shepard-novel-system-for-safe-asteroid-capture/
 

Mythopoeika

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That is a very interesting concept. Where are we going to get that much Xenon from?
Why not use carbon dioxide or something else that's common?
 

rynner2

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* Does not compute! *

Once captured, SHEPHERD introduces a one tenth atmosphere of Xenon gas to de-spin the asteroid

Conservation of angular momentum implies that if the asteroid stops spinning, something else (presumably SHEPHERD itself) will end up spinning. And what's the use of that?

(The mechanism for the transfer of angular momentum would presumably be eddies formed in the one tenth atmosphere, which would then spin up the fabric enclosure. And if thrusters are used to kill that spin, they would need fuel, as I doubt that an electric propulsion engine would be powerful enough. And if the thrusters are on the spacecraft end, there would be a danger of twsting up the fabric enclosure - it would be a bit like wringing out a wet dishcloth!)

Just my two pence worth! :p
 

ramonmercado

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* Does not compute! *

Once captured, SHEPHERD introduces a one tenth atmosphere of Xenon gas to de-spin the asteroid

Conservation of angular momentum implies that if the asteroid stops spinning, something else (presumably SHEPHERD itself) will end up spinning. And what's the use of that?

(The mechanism for the transfer of angular momentum would presumably be eddies formed in the one tenth atmosphere, which would then spin up the fabric enclosure. And if thrusters are used to kill that spin, they would need fuel, as I doubt that an electric propulsion engine would be powerful enough. And if the thrusters are on the spacecraft end, there would be a danger of twsting up the fabric enclosure - it would be a bit like wringing out a wet dishcloth!)

Just my two pence worth! :p

Why not post that at H+ or the youtube vid?
 

rynner2

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Why not post that at H+ or the youtube vid?
I can't be bothered registering and logging into new sites at the moment. With my new confusing Win10 computer, and more confusion from from my AV prog (one message today tells me my protection runs out in 7 days, but yesterday Avast agreed with me that my license is valid till next April!!).

But you can post it, with my permission, if you're already registered there.
 

skinny

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“This is an animated depiction of the novel SHEPHERD spacecraft concept on a mission to gently stop a small asteroid from spinning and guide it into a different orbit by enclosing the target asteroid in a sealed fabric enclosure. Once captured, SHEPHERD introduces a one tenth atmosphere of Xenon gas to de-spin the asteroid and then blows Xenon gas at the asteroid to gently impart momentum (and an orbital change) to the object while matching the relative position of the spacecraft with thrust from it’s solar electric propulsion engine. In this way SHEPHERD can securely handle and drive even a fragile, pristine and ancient asteroid to its destination. This mission is to release the asteroid in Lunar orbit for a human crew to approach and collect samples for science ...

http://hplusmagazine.com/2015/08/21/video-friday-shepard-novel-system-for-safe-asteroid-capture/
Finally someone found a use for Father's old Y-fronts.
 

Vardoger

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NASA document claiming there's an asteroid with Earth's name on it which will hit us on September 28th 2015,
and NASAs debunk. Someone on a forum on the "Dark Web"(probably the TOR net) posted the screen captures first.
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message2954268/pg1

106dcvc1442072039.jpg


72g0zk1442072085.jpg


First NASA removed the page, then reposted the page with a debunking:
http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/pdc15/
 
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Mythopoeika

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Aha, that explains why so many Christian conspiracists have been banging on about a September asteroid impact.
Apparently, that is supposed to be a hypothetical impact scenario that was discussed at a conference earlier this year.
 

Mythopoeika

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A 'violent conflict with aliens when they take over our computers'?
I can just imagine my laptop sprouting limbs and attacking me...wait, no I can't. :rolleyes:
Most of his other predictions were spot on, though.

Mind you, aliens could take over our military computers and do us harm that way. Launching nuclear missiles, messing about with the energy grid and causing hospital equipment to malfunction, disrupting comms technology...
Human hackers can do all that stuff anyway.
Why would aliens do that, when they could kill us all in so many subtle ways.
 

ramonmercado

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A 'violent conflict with aliens when they take over our computers'?
I can just imagine my laptop sprouting limbs and attacking me...wait, no I can't. :rolleyes:
Most of his other predictions were spot on, though.

Mind you, aliens could take over our military computers and do us harm that way. Launching nuclear missiles, messing about with the energy grid and causing hospital equipment to malfunction, disrupting comms technology...
Human hackers can do all that stuff anyway.
Why would aliens do that, when they could kill us all in so many subtle ways.

Why would aliens do that, when they could kill us all in so many subtle ways.

Because Aliens never do things the easy way in films or on TVs. They act like Bond villains.
 

Moooksta

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They act like Bond villains.

If that's true then I'll expect to be sat down on the 27th by an alien and have the entire intricate plan for take over and destruction explained to me fully while I burn through the rope using this 'ere laser hidden in my iPhone.
 

Mythopoeika

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It would also mean that aliens have pet cats and sharks.
 

rynner2

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Graham Hancock covers a lot of ground in his books, but I think this story can go here:

Have the secrets of a lost civilisation finally been unearthed?
Rupert Hawksley 4 October 2015 • 8:00am

...
Twenty years ago, Hancock set the cat among the academic pigeons when he published a book called Fingerprints of the Gods, a re-evaluation of mankind's past that claimed an advanced civilisation was wiped out by a giant comet towards the end of the last Ice Age.

Based on Hancock's own investigations and interviews with archaeologists and astronomers, the book claimed survivors of this cataclysm, the giant flood remembered in myths all around the world, went on to settle in locations from Mexico to Egypt and impart their ancient knowledge to the other remaining humans.

...

Now, he has written a sequel to Fingerprints, Magicians of the Gods, which reveals "explosive new evidence" to support his claims. It also warns of another comet strike that is destined to hit Earth in 2030.
The book, which is already a bestseller, has proved irresistible to fans and Hancock's talks, which he has been holding to accompany the launch, have been hugely popular, attracting far larger audiences than equivalent talks by Booker-prize winning authors.

What Hancock has not achieved, however, is credibility. Leading archaeologists have been denouncing his theories for decades. He has been compared to The Da Vinci Code author Dan Brown and dismissed as a pseudo archaeologist or "Pyramidiot".
Hancock has no formal qualifications in archaeology, history or astronomy. His long-standing interest in hallucinogenic drugs – "they are something that society really needs" – has not enhanced his reputation either.

But the author says he has never claimed to be an academic. He presents himself as a journalist who is simply reporting theories by scientists who think they can fill in some of the gaps in the history of mankind – holes acknowledged by all mainstream academics.
"Let's get to grips with that first of all," he says. "The foundations upon which history is based look increasingly suspect. Let's no longer shroud ourselves in the illusion that [traditional] historians and archaeologists are invincible."
There are, according to Hancock, two smoking guns. Firstly, matter was discovered recently in North America that is likely to have been caused by a comet or asteroid strike. In 2014, the Journal of Geology confirmed that this matter was formed 12,800 years ago.

"For someone who proposed [in Fingerprints of the Gods] a giant cataclysm between 12,000 and 13,000 years ago, it is a bit of a gift from the universe to have a bunch of very major scientists now saying that there was indeed a giant comet impact 12,800 years ago," he says. :D

Secondly, excavations at an archaeological site in Turkey called Göbekli Tepe have uncovered ruins that are at least 11,600 years old. That is more than 6,000 years older than other megalithic sites such as Stonehenge. A civilisation capable of the advanced architecture and art discovered at Göbekli Tepe is not supposed to have existed 11,600 years ago.

So what is the explanation?
"We're looking at a place where the survivors of a lost civilisation settled." References to these survivors – described as sages, magicians or "mystery teachers of Heaven" – can be found in various cultures, he adds.
"When the evidence started to build up, my first feeling was one of weariness," he says. "Because my books have been quite successful, I have been subjected to more of the scathing and withering attacks on the quality of my work, and on my qualities as a human being, by the academic community than anybody else. But this story needs to be told. It would just be plain wrong for me to ignore it."

...

And Hancock believes that we may be about to lose another part of the human story. In the conclusion to his new book, he writes: "It is possible – indeed highly probable – that we are not yet done with the comet that changed the face of the earth between 12,800 years ago and 11,600 years ago."
There remains, he explains, at least one large comet in the same meteor stream. In 2030, we are due to come into contact with it once again.

"We have fallen out of harmony with the universe… In mythological terms, we tick all the boxes for the next lost civilisation," warns Hancock. "Plato says it very clearly about the citizens of Atlantis: there was a time when they loved a pure and good life but they became arrogant and cruel and no longer bore their prosperity with moderation. I think we sound a lot like that."
...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/books/authors/graham-hancock-interview/

Ancient history, Atlantis, Göbekli Tepe, comet/asteroid impacts - several major Fortean themes linked together. Perhaps this book should have its own thread? If not, here will do. I probably won't be around in 2030 to see the next big impact...
 
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Zeke Newbold

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Yes, this does need it's own thread.

I must confess to not having read a whole book by Hancock - and that's largely because I had previously read similar authors before, peddling the same kind of cyclic civilisations line, such as Richard Mooney,David Thompson and the like.

The problem here is that, if you are going to posit the notion of there being a technologically advanced society previous to our own - and I believe that is what Hancock is doing - then they ought to have left a darn sight more `fingerprints` behind them than they have. (I believe Hancock tries to get round this by claiming that all the left over technology is hidden under the Antarctic ice, owing to a polar shift...which seems like a bit of a sleight of hand).

In this sense the Ancient Astronaut (AKA paleo-seti)position, as popularised by Daniken has the edge when it comes to accounting for anachronisms:the perpetrators buggered off to whence they came.

I also believe that, in one of his books, which involved Mars, Hancock gave credence to the `Face on Mars`: this to me is like a litmus test of credibility. if you believe there's a `face` on Mars, you're disqualified.

He just comes across to me as a bright-eyed unreconstructed hippy - as was further demonstrated when he started banging on about psychedelic hallucinogens.

Sorry to be negative: the guy's probably on to something somewhere in all of that, but I'm not worried about 2030 anymore than I was the blood Moon, which we all had the temerity to survive.
 

rynner2

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...I'm not worried about 2030 anymore than I was the blood Moon, which we all had the temerity to survive.
Well, all of us still posting here, perhaps! Those who didn't survive tend not to post anywhere, AFAIK.

I'm not sure how much time I have left, having recently passed the biblical limit of three score years and ten.
That does allow for up to four score if healthy, but
"Yet is their pride but travail and vanity; For it is speedily gone, and we fly away."

http://biblehub.com/psalms/90-10.htm
 

Mythopoeika

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So you're only 70?
 

Graylien

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"We have fallen out of harmony with the universe… In mythological terms, we tick all the boxes for the next lost civilisation," warns Hancock. "Plato says it very clearly about the citizens of Atlantis: there was a time when they loved a pure and good life but they became arrogant and cruel and no longer bore their prosperity with moderation. I think we sound a lot like that."

Yep, he's getting a bit too New Agey there. Comets don't hit our planet because we've "fallen out of harmony with the universe". It's to do with orbital paths and gravity and sciencey stuff like that.

As for Plato's Atlantis, from what I've read, most actual philosophers seem to think he pretty much made the whole thing up to illustrate his vision of an ideal state. (A rather peculiar kind of dictatorship ruled by philosopher kings in which everyone knows their place and sticks to it.)
 

kamalktk

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As for Plato's Atlantis, from what I've read, most actual philosophers seem to think he pretty much made the whole thing up to illustrate his vision of an ideal state. (A rather peculiar kind of dictatorship ruled by philosopher kings in which everyone knows their place and sticks to it.)
And with Plato being a philosopher....

I picture the ideal state of a chimney sweep as being ruled by chimney sweeps.
 

Zeke Newbold

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I'm not sure how much time I have left, having recently passed the biblical limit of three score years and ten.
That does allow for up to four score if healthy, but
"Yet is their pride but travail and vanity; For it is speedily gone, and we fly away."

Ah, shut it rynner! Look at it this way - you're providing a role model to the rest of us who are edging our way in your direction.

I still haven't got over the shock of turning fifty. There I was nonchalantly sailing through my forties - thinking of myself as outside of the time continuum and somehow inwardly still young and `cool` - and then BAM! -I'm fifty and I've morphed into a Geoffrey Palmer character in a TV sitcom (albeit one without a wife and kids).

Let's face it: Living is a pain in the arse for the most part - but at least it's a story. And we all like a story. That's what bothers me most about dying: it's like putting a book down before you know what happens next. if it were'nt for my need to know what's on the next page I'd have jumped off a cliff ages ago.

`It's not dying Im afraid of -
I just don't want to be there when it happens` Woody Allen.
 
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eburacum

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And Hancock believes that we may be about to lose another part of the human story. In the conclusion to his new book, he writes: "It is possible – indeed highly probable – that we are not yet done with the comet that changed the face of the earth between 12,800 years ago and 11,600 years ago."
There remains, he explains, at least one large comet in the same meteor stream. In 2030, we are due to come into contact with it once again.
[Morbo]Comets do not work that way.[/Morbo]
 

rynner2

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[Morbo]Comets do not work that way.[/Morbo]
Please elucidate.

Many meteor streams are known to be cometary debris, and meteors and comets obey the same law of gravity. It would be no great surprise if a meteor stream contained a few massive bodies. (It might prove an unpleasant surprise, however!)
 

eburacum

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Hancock says that the last time this meteor stream posed a threat was between 12,800 years ago and 11,600 years ago. A very wide, and imprecise, range. That is his input data.

He then predicts the return of a hypothetical dangerous object in that stream in 2030, apparently able to narrow it down to a single year. The output of this calculation can't be more accurate than the input, as I'm sure you'll appreciate.
 

Mythopoeika

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15 million miles! Why are they even reporting that?
 

ramonmercado

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15 million miles! Why are they even reporting that?

In the great scheme of things its close enough. The distance Earth moves in its orbit in about a day. There also may be smaller fragments in its wake which could have their trajectory/orbit affected by Earth's gravity even if the main rock isn't. Depending on its periodicity they could come closer to Earth next time round.
 

rynner2

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‘Spooky’: the 1,300ft-wide asteroid to hurtle close to Earth on Halloween
TB145, a medium-sized chunk of rock and ice could that cause ‘continental-scale devastation’, will fly by at a distance slightly farther away than the moon
Alan Yuhas in New York
Friday 23 October 2015 20.53 BST

A large asteroid discovered only weeks ago will tear past the Earth on Halloween, Nasa has announced, estimating that it will come closer than any object of its size in the next 20 years.
The asteroid, nicknamed “the Great Pumpkin” and “Spooky” but technically known as TB145, is an estimated 1,300ft (400 meters) wide – 20 times bigger than the meteorite that screamed across the Russian sky and exploded over Chelyabinsk in 2013, shattering windows with shock waves and debris that injured more than a thousand people.

The Chelyabinsk object entered the atmosphere at about 12 miles (19km) per second. TB145 will fly past at around 22 miles per second (78,300mph), about 300,000 miles (483,000km) from Earth, slightly farther than the moon.

Scientists at Nasa’s Center for Near-Earth Object Studies discovered TB145 on 10 October and announced it to the public this week. The asteroid will make its closest approach on 31 October at about 1.05pm ET (5.05pm GMT). Nasa estimates that no similar object will make a comparable approach until 2027.

TB145 has an unusually oblong orbit, in an area searched less often than the flat-disc plane on which the solar system is arranged. TB145 slices through that plane at a 40-degree angle. Now it’s been spotted, the center’s Paul Chodas said its trajectory was “well understood”.
TB145 last passed by in 1975, when the Earth was at a different place in its orbit around the sun and Nasa’s surveys of the sky were far less comprehensive.

Lance Benner, of Nasa’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory, said in a statement: “Such a unique orbit, along with its high encounter velocity, raises the question of whether it may be some type of comet.”

Although TB145 will hurtle by “relatively close by celestial standards”, Chodas said in the statement “it is expected to be fairly faint, so night-sky Earth observers would need at least a small telescope to view it”.
Would-be skywatchers can turn to the internet for live telescope views provided by the Virtual Telescope Project.

The asteroid is far too small to exert any kind of gravitational pull on Earth’s plates or tides, Nasa said, with Benner adding that the agency would use radar imaging to examine the object in greater detail. The radar should reveal not only the surface of the object, but also whether it has a companion moon which could in turn provide clues to the object’s mass and density.

Had the asteroid been on a collision course with Earth, three-weeks’ notice “would have been too late to do anything about it”, Chodas told Popular Science.
“An asteroid of this size is really difficult to deflect with only 20 days’ warning,” he said.

Astronomers estimate that they have identified more than 90% of the largest “near-earth objects”, numbering more than 10,000 so far. TB145 ranks among the medium-sized objects, and was discovered by the Pan-STARRS telescope at the University of Hawaii.

A medium-sized chunk of rock and ice like TB145 could cause a catastrophe on Earth – “continental-scale devastation”, in Chodas’ words – if not quite a global disaster on the scale of the six-mile-wide asteroid that is blamed for the death of the dinosaurs. Medium-sized asteroids hit the earth once every 100,000 years, according to Nasa’s estimates.

etc...

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/23/spooky-tb145-asteroid-close-to-earth-halloween
 

skinny

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three-weeks’ notice “would have been too late to do anything about it”, Chodas told Popular Science.
How will we prepare when it is on target? Would we be told? Best not to, I'd say. Word would get out though. The last days would be horror beyond imagining with abandonment of all social care or concern for others by a vast majority. I know exactly where I'd take my family to wait it out in relative peace.
 

rynner2

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How will we prepare when it is on target? Would we be told? Best not to, I'd say. Word would get out though. The last days would be horror beyond imagining with abandonment of all social care or concern for others by a vast majority.

I don't see that. Most people, unable to do anything about the impact, would probably just carry on as before - there's comfort in routine. And the threat of disaster would make many people grateful for the love and help they've received in their lifetime, and willing to give this love back, or pass it on, while it's still possible. Certainly those who believe in an afterlife would not contemplate abandoning their responsabilities.
 
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