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Aztecs: Culture, History & Discoveries

Remember the incubation times. Anyone infected by an american disease might be dead before they reached Europe again.

That's an important point. The European explorers were, in effect, operating as far removed from their homeland as the Apollo astronauts on the moon. The transportation 'channel' back toward Europe was narrow, took considerable time, and was used by a small specialized subset of the population (e.g., sailors and adventurers).

Similarly, the early European settlers were on a one-way trip with little opportunity or demand for return passage.
 
What I was trying to suggest (and might be wrong) is that the reason Europeans didn't catch a bunch of deadly New World diseases is because those diseases simply didn't exist. They just didn't develop there in the same way they developed in the foul disease factory that was Europe at the time. Contact with China etc had already been occurring for hundreds (probably thousands) of years whereas the New World was, er new! ...

To the extent there are records to provide data, it is the case that the flow of fatal infections from the Old World to the New World was considerably greater than the reverse flow from New World to Old. In other words, there does seem to have been a remarkably one-sided effect.

This summary article on epidemiological issues relating to the New World expansion:

ORIGINS OF MAJOR HUMAN INFECTIOUS DISEASES
Nathan D. Wolfe, Claire Panosian Dunavan, and Jared Diamond.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK114494/

... describes some angles researchers have taken in analyzing what happened.

These researchers point to the higher population densities in the Old World as providing good breeding grounds for plagues.

More interestingly, the authors draw a distinction between temperate and tropical zone diseases, noting the primary human epidemic diseases (e.g., smallpox) are of temperate origin.

They also note that a majority of the temperate diseases that evolved into human epidemic-causing bugs originated with domesticated mammalian species or species strongly associated with dense settlement patterns (e.g., rats).

Out of all the varied New World native cultures operating at the time of the Euro-incursion, there was only one example of mammal domestication - the llama in the Incas' region.
 
I only just read the initial post. I knew about the sacrifices but must say I am surprised to hear of cannibalism in such a technologically advanced society.
 
I only just read the initial post. I knew about the sacrifices but must say I am surprised to hear of cannibalism in such a technologically advanced society.

This balance between “highly technologically advanced” and violent, even brutal, behavior should not be taken under our own points of view. What if for the Aztecs anthropophagy was a proof of respect, reverence and even of jealousy of the qualities of the, well, food ?

Back in XVIth Century, Brazil was populated by different tribes, some clustering many smaller ones in a single “nation”. It was the case of the Tupinamba. Present between the south of Bahia until de coastline of São Paulo, they were famous for eating their own war prisoners (among other natives) and later the europeans that arrived to their shores as castaways, as a ritualized way of “eating” their courage, their skill, their wisdom.

This kind of philosophy appealed to Europeans like Michel de Montaigne that dedicated one of his “Essays” to the examination of the culture of the Tupinambas. Members of this nation arrived in a great number in France, to be the main attraction of the festival that marked the sacré of the King. Montaigne underlined the courage and the openness of the Tupinambas, relativizing their food habits inside this system of ideas that made them “noble”.

Out of the sphere of philosophy, a traveler that became a castaway in Brazilian shores, Hans Staden was saved by the Tupinambas and lived among them for a while. I don’t remember if he mentions having actually eaten human flesh, but he felt so integrated that he had a hard time dissociating himself of the image of “savage” because of his adventures.

There are many other examples of Portuguese, French, Dutch having portrayed the cannibals of Brazil with affectionate tones. I believe that the Aztecs had their culture, gravitating around the power of the bloodshed as a representation of mystic fluids, not far removed from many of the Native South American. And I believe that it shoudn’t make of them “evil” characters in History.
 
This study's results refute presumptions about Aztec / Mesoamerican trade routes extending northward to the American Southwest region and suggest archaeologists should resume searching for Mesoamerican turquoise mines.

Aztec Turquoise Tiles May Solve a Mesoamerican Mystery

A recent geochemical analysis calls into question the idea of extensive contact between Mesoamerican and Southwest American cultures before the Spanish invaded.

With its brilliant hues of blue and green, turquoise was a highly prized gemstone to the ancient Aztecs and Mixtec in the region that stretches from central Mexico to Central America known as Mesoamerica. They used the mineral to create armbands and nose plugs, for handles on sacrificial knives and also to design elaborate mosaics of warriors that adorned their ceremonial shields and fearsome statues of double-headed serpents.

For more than a century, archaeologists have questioned the origins of the turquoise used in these beautiful pieces of artwork and jewelry. Because scientists have found little evidence of turquoise mining in Mesoamerica, some researchers have used the presence of turquoise artifacts in the area as evidence of a long-distance trade exchange with ancient civilizations thousands of miles away in the American Southwest, where turquoise mines have been found.

But a recent geochemical analysis of Aztec and Mixtec turquoise suggests that the mineral did not originate in the American Southwest, but rather in Mesoamerica. The finding, published Wednesday in the journal Science Advances, also calls into question the idea that there was extensive contact between Mesoamerican and Southwest American cultures before the Spanish invasion in the 1500s. ...

Alyson Thibodeau, a geochemist at Dickinson College in Pennsylvania and lead author on the paper, was given a jar filled with turquoise tiles that were associated with Mesoamerican mosaics. Many had been excavated from offerings in the Templo Mayor, which was the main temple in the ancient Aztec city of Tenochtitlan, present day Mexico City. The pieces date mostly to the late 15th century. Some of the samples came from loose tiles associated with Mixteca-style turquoise mosaics held by the Smithsonian Institution in the collections of the National Museum of the American Indian. ...

After shaving off the tiles’ edges to remove adhesives, Dr. Thibodeau ground them up individually and dissolved them in acid. She then analyzed the samples for their isotopic fingerprints, which provided insight into their origins.

Late in the lab one night, she got back her first results.

“I saw the number pop up and I’m pretty sure I did a dance around the lab,” Dr. Thibodeau said.

“Not only do they have isotopic signatures that are absolutely consistent with the geology of Mesoamerica,” she said, “but they are completely different from the isotopic signatures of the Southwestern turquoise deposits and artifacts that we have seen so far.”

Dr. Thibodeau said that even though archaeologists have not found remnants of turquoise mines in Mesoamerica, that does not mean they were never there.

SOURCE: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/13/science/turquoise-aztecs-mexico.html?partner=rss&emc=rss
 
I remember reading somewhere that the Anasazi tribe disappear pretty much about the time the Mechica (Aztecs) migrate through the area looking for their omen of the eagle on a cactus? I believe there is an extant theory that while the Anasazi have been accused of cannibalism, it is far more likely that the remains discovered relate to when the Anasazi were wiped out and eaten by the tribe who would form the future Aztec Empire. Sadly I seem to have misplaced the article in question. Has any other student of the Aztecs bumped into this information?
 
What made Europeans so resistant to American diseases? Why weren’t Conquistadores hit by waves of American diseases? Why haven’t American diseases hit the European mainland, carried by Europeans or Americans?
Here is an article that goes some way towards explaining the question for you I hope:
https://www.infectiveperspective.com/blog/-infectious-diseases-in-america-before-european-contact

There is a strong suspicion that syphilis existed in Europe before Westerners encountered it in the Americas.

I had heard that too Maximus Otter. According to wikipedia (and other sources therefore), the people who have suggested this strong suspicion didn't follow proper peer review and their conclusions are dubious as a result. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_syphilis
Compare this to the plethora of pre-Columbian skeletons that show symptoms of syphilis, and what seems more likely? Europeans certainly introduced a lot of diseases to the Americas, but syphilis wasn't one of them; that was extremely likely to be traffic going the other way.
 
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Hundreds Of Mutilated Skulls Found Under Mexico City Confirm Ancient Tales Of Brutal Human Sacrifice

The priest quickly sliced into the captive's torso and removed his still-beating heart. That sacrifice, one among thousands performed in the sacred city of Tenochtitlan, would feed the gods and ensure the continued existence of the world. -Science Magazine

Archeologists have uncovered extensive evidence of ritual human sacrifice and an ominous "skull wall" built in the 14th-century Aztek city of Tenochtitlan - located in what is now the center of Mexico City. Discovered in the 1970's when city electrical workers stumbled across a circular statue of the dismembered goddess Coyolxauhqui, archeologists discovered that much of the main structure - the Templo Mayor, was intact.

The Mexica built it in seven phases between 1325 and 1521, each corresponding to the reign of a king. Each phase was built over and around the earlier ones, embedding the Templo Mayor's history within it like a set of Russian nesting dolls. Although the Spanish destroyed the temple's final phase, the smaller temples from earlier reigns were paved over but left relatively unscathed. -Science Magazine


Human sacrifice was a common theme in Mesoamerican belief systems, which included the Maya of Southern Mexico and the Mexica, a subset of the larger Aztek culture which flourished in Central Mexico. They believed that the gods could only be appeased through constant human sacrifice, and the sun would cease to rise if they stopped - ushering in the apocalypse. Those slaughtered included enemy warriors and slaves bought specifically to be sacrificed.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018...nder-mexico-city-confirm-ancient-tales-brutal
 
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What a fantastic discovery. When the temples were first being excavated in the '70s gruesome finds were often in the news; they confirmed stories told for hundreds of years about fierce gods and horrific rituals. Fascinating stuff!

I can remember long earnest discussions at university about how much interference there should be with 'discovered' cultures. The consensus was that we should leave them alone, as if that was going to happen! except where there was human sacrifice.

Those cultures were obviously psychotic and should be re-educated forthwith. This had already happened with the Aztecs, who were sorted out by the Spanish Conquistadors with the help of smallpox. Generation after generation of misery.
 
The full horror of the Aztec 'skull tower' revealed: Archaeologists say THOUSANDS of human sacrifices had their still-beating hearts cut out before their heads were severed and added to a monument the size of a basketball court
  • Archaeologists previously found 650 skulls in Aztec capital Tenochtitlan, which became Mexico City
  • New research shows find was just a small part of massive array of what was once thousands of skulls
  • New details of the gory rituals have also been revealed, which include turning skulls into masks
4DB3FEFB00000578-5893933-image-a-27_1530133222913.jpg


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5893933/The-horror-Aztec-tower-skulls-revealed.html
 
Is this where the 'death whistle' was found?
Like a clay instrument that makes a terrifying howl when played.
 
Is this where the 'death whistle' was found?
Like a clay instrument that makes a terrifying howl when played.

Specimens of the so-called 'death whistle' have been found at multiple sites, and the instrument is sometimes claimed to have also been used by the Mayans and even the Olmecs. The whistle has long been assumed to be associated with sacrifices, but it's also been claimed to have been used in warfare as an intimidation device.

In other words ... There's no single 'death whistle', it's not clear it's uniquely Aztec, and one or more specimens may well have been discovered at the particular site involved here.
 
Specimens of the so-called 'death whistle' have been found at multiple sites, and the instrument is sometimes claimed to have also been used by the Mayans and even the Olmecs. The whistle has long been assumed to be associated with sacrifices, but it's also been claimed to have been used in warfare as an intimidation device.

In other words ... There's no single 'death whistle', it's not clear it's uniquely Aztec, and one or more specimens may well have been discovered at the particular site involved here.

Yup, I knew all that, having read the same article. I'd like one.
 
There's no shortage of craftspersons / vendors who make and sell them ...

Yup, I looked into it a couple of years back. You really need to hear about 100 at the same time for the full effect!
 
Aztecs in North America!

For more than two centuries, scientists, historians, and treasure hunters have sought proof that Mesoamerican peoples visited or even colonized the lands now part of the continental United States.

In the nineteenth century, this line of speculation tended to focus on the Aztecs, who had a myth of coming to Mexico from Aztlán, a land to the north of Mexico. Baron von Humboldt infamously placed Aztlán in the Great Lakes region on the evidence of a painting of a palm tree (don’t ask) and what amounted to some guesswork about how fast they might have walked across the 416 years of their wanderings from Aztlán to Mexico. “It is almost certain,” Humboldt wrote in Researches Concerning the Institutions and Monuments of the Ancient Inhabitants of America(1810), “that we must look for the first country of the Mexican nations, Aztlan, Huehuetlapallan, and Amequemecan, at least North of the 42d degree of latitude” (trans. Helena Maria Williams). Humboldt’s claim was so persuasive that he succeeded in getting scholars to speak of the inhabitants of Tenochtitlan as “Aztecs” from Aztlán instead of the Mexica of Mexico. ...

I’ll give you only one guess whether Chris Keefer (he of the “love of technology”) and Casey Keefer (“the history buff”) found either Aztlán or the Aztec imperial treasures in Utah during Code of the Wild. While this episode will not air for another week, the episode that aired this past Tuesday, which I did not review because it was not about archaeology or ancient history, brought in 437,000 viewer, nearly 200,000 fewer than the rerun of Expedition Unknown that preceded it.

In this episode, the brothers tell us that “all” the gold in Mexico, totaling $3 billion in today’s money, disappeared during the Conquest, and they might have hauled it off to Utah in order to hide it in the seven caves of Aztlán, from which they believed their people had emerged five centuries earlier. Rather than repeat myself, I will paste in my discussion of the Aztecs-of-the-Southwest claim from a few years ago: ...

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/review-of-code-of-the-wild-s01e05-aztecs-in-america#
 
15 Aztec Gods

Source: ancient.eu
Date: 2 March, 2020

The Aztecs of northern Mesoamerica (c. 1345 and 1521 CE) worshipped some of the weirdest, most fantastic and downright scary gods seen anywhere in history. The Aztec civilization and the empire it created revolved around winning special favour with these gods in order to ensure a measure of balance in nature, the continuance of human life and even the daily rising of the sun itself.

In this collection we examine 15 gods in detail, looking at the mythology they were involved in and their particular associations such as their special days, numbers and animals. Here are all the major gods from mighty Huitzilopochtli, Hummingbird of the South, and his links with war and eagles to mischievous Xochipilli, the Flower Prince, linked to summer, butterflies and poetry.

https://www.ancient.eu/collection/65/15-aztec-gods/
 
Hoy What of this modern faschination with list making? 27 of this? 54 of the best thats? 267 Howevers? Why go Sei Shonagon on us? (A Famed list Maker)
It is good to know how many of something there are, for the sake of completion. You are clearly not a Pokemon fan, Kondoru.
 
Aztec palace ruins found in centre of Mexico City, Cotez link.

The remains of an ancient Aztec palace have been discovered under a stately building in Mexico City.

During renovations at the building off the capital's central Zócalo plaza, workers found basalt slab floors. The floors were part of an open space in the palace of Aztec ruler Axayácatl, Mexico's National Institute of Anthropology and History (INAH) said. The palace was also used as the home of Spanish conquistador Hernán Cortés after the fall of the Aztec empire. Excavators have found evidence of the home Cortés had at the palace site. Archaeologists say it is likely to have reused materials from Axayácatl's palace - which, like other sacred Aztec buildings, was razed by the Spanish conquistadors.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-53397164
 
I can highly recommend the Aztec series of mystery books by Simon Levack. Well researched in what was known at the time of writing.
 
Aztec palace ruins found in centre of Mexico City, Cotez link.

The remains of an ancient Aztec palace have been discovered under a stately building in Mexico City.

During renovations at the building off the capital's central Zócalo plaza, workers found basalt slab floors. The floors were part of an open space in the palace of Aztec ruler Axayácatl, Mexico's National Institute of Anthropology and History (INAH) said. The palace was also used as the home of Spanish conquistador Hernán Cortés after the fall of the Aztec empire. Excavators have found evidence of the home Cortés had at the palace site. Archaeologists say it is likely to have reused materials from Axayácatl's palace - which, like other sacred Aztec buildings, was razed by the Spanish conquistadors.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-53397164

They can't fart over there without an archaeological discovery --like Egypt.
 
Note to the moderators: A search turned up nothing on the subject. Please move this if it's already been done. Thanks.

For anyone interested in Aztec civilization, here is an excellent video of the Aztec "whistles of death" Quite possibly the most bone-chilling sound I've ever heard....


I know this is a very old thread, but I only now played the YouTube video linked in this post.

At the sound of the whistle, my cat looked extremely distressed, with big eyes staring at my laptop and with her fur standing up.
 
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