Baby Dragon Found in Oxfordshire.

A

Anonymous

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#61
I haven't read of Fort's own stuff. But I don't fancy getting into a personality cult type of mind set. I'd say that the old boy can be credited for setting us on a course of research into things that would otherwise either be dismissed out of hand by sceptics or believed uncritically by eejits.

But it's unsatisfying if the result of our research into these areas should only amount to "hey, here's a weird tale"; "wow! That is weird!"

Not having read any of his stuff I don't know if this is where Fort wanted to leave things, but even if he did (which I doubt), I don't see why we of this generation shouldn't try to take a wider view of things and apply at least some of the methods of science to move things forward.

Like if I said to you "there's a gnome living at the bottom of my garden" you'd probably say "b****ks!" You'd be right, but the whole thing generates many interesting questions.

My complaint is that some of the things printed recently in FT don't amount to anything more than the hypothetical bit of b****ks referred to in the previous paragraph. And what I'm saying is that the magazine and its readership are missing a trick and overlooking the really interesting questions.

This dragon for example; open the jar and see what it is. Then instead of just printing the annecdote in the magazine about the finding and provedence of the specimine, whether it be fake or real, use the magazine space to discuss the wider implications of the case. Otherwise all we've got to look forward to in coming articles are more annecdotes with no follow ups.
 

The late Pete Younger

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#62
Steve Jefferson said:
use the magazine space to discuss the wider implications of the case. Otherwise all we've got to look forward to in coming articles are more annecdotes with no follow ups.
Trouble is the mag would have to be a couple of inches thick, it's up to us to do further research if we are interested in any particular article.
 
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#63
Steve Jefferson said:
I still think though that, if the hoaxing and cultural elements are the most important or interesting aspects of the whole story then these can best be kicked off by opening the jar. :sceptic:
Well they are the most interesting aspects now I suppose but various stories in this field jink from one area of significance to another.

Steve Jefferson said:
I haven't read of Fort's own stuff. But I don't fancy getting into a personality cult type of mind set. I'd say that the old boy can be credited for setting us on a course of research into things that would otherwise either be dismissed out of hand by sceptics or believed uncritically by eejits.

But it's unsatisfying if the result of our research into these areas should only amount to "hey, here's a weird tale"; "wow! That is weird!"

Not having read any of his stuff I don't know if this is where Fort wanted to leave things, but even if he did (which I doubt), I don't see why we of this generation shouldn't try to take a wider view of things and apply at least some of the methods of science to move things forward.

Like if I said to you "there's a gnome living at the bottom of my garden" you'd probably say "b****ks!" You'd be right, but the whole thing generates many interesting questions.

My complaint is that some of the things printed recently in FT don't amount to anything more than the hypothetical bit of b****ks referred to in the previous paragraph. And what I'm saying is that the magazine and its readership are missing a trick and overlooking the really interesting questions.

This dragon for example; open the jar and see what it is. Then instead of just printing the annecdote in the magazine about the finding and provedence of the specimine, whether it be fake or real, use the magazine space to discuss the wider implications of the case. Otherwise all we've got to look forward to in coming articles are more annecdotes with no follow ups.
I tend to agree with you and I have mentioned elsewhere that a story can have different levels and they may have different directions and importance. There is clearly a "Ooooooooo interesting story aspect" but without being put in context and subjected to further analysis and investigations it remains just that which is purely a more transitory thing just thrwon out there for titilation. The great thing about the magazine is that it can place such things in context (whichever direction the story is going in). It is important to get the data out and about and as said:

Pete Younger said:
Trouble is the mag would have to be a couple of inches thick, it's up to us to do further research if we are interested in any particular article.
By getting the information out it can then inspire people to investigate further. If you told me you had gnomes living in your garden I probably wouldn't say "Bollocks" I'd be more likely to say "Prove it" - the problem with this sotry is that (if it hadn't been revealed as a hoax) FT doesn't have authority to go around messing with other people's property but it might have inspired someone to go and investigate further which would then possibly get published in the magazine later.

I do agree with Pete Younger that it might lead to a big doorstop of a magazine and I think that is why we need to get Fortean Studies back up and running (which we have discussed elsewhere - for the record I'm in favour of a combined electronic version and a POD book version).

We also have this messageboard which can stay right up to date on developments and provide followups, etc.

[edit: Added in the 'elsewhere' link]

[edit2: Added in the other 'elsewhere' link]

Emps
 
A

Anonymous

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#64
Steve Jefferson said:
This dragon for example; open the jar and see what it is. Then instead of just printing the annecdote in the magazine about the finding and provedence of the specimine, whether it be fake or real, use the magazine space to discuss the wider implications of the case. Otherwise all we've got to look forward to in coming articles are more annecdotes with no follow ups.
But, the whole point about the "Baby Dragon In A Jar" story was that it was a, "Baby Dragon In A Jar". Which was how it first got reported in a Newspaper, on the BBC and so forth.

Hoax, or no, it was as an artifact, with a documented history, which apparently raised more questions. It all turned out to be a very modern hoax, but then, that's more, or less what everybody was expecting.

In this case, it was the skillful execution of the hoax, and particularily the genuine aesthetical beauty of the original artifact that made it worthy of Fortean note.

There are several Threads and FT articles, past, somewhere abouts on 'Cabinets of Curiosity' and hoax artifacts of a Fortean nature.

Such things are meant to create wonderment in the beholder and probably have ancestral links to mediaeval "Holy Relics." Pieces of the True Cross, crying BVM statues and the likes.
 

FelixAntonius

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#65
For those who are interested, the baby dragon is on show in the childrens section of Waterstone's Book Shop in Sidney Street, Cambridge until Monday the 10th May.

Allistair Mitchell, will be in the shop for a book signing on Saturday the 8th May, from 12.30 to 1.30pm.

The book it publicises is the Unearthly History, which he has under the pen name of P R Moredun.
 

Sertile

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#66
@%*&!! hoaxer!!

"Book deal for dragon hoax author"

"An author who was so desperate to get his book published that he staged a hoax involving a baby dragon has won a lucrative publishing contract."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/oxfordshire/3576987.stm

Okay, so I never thought the dragon was real to begin with, but are they just going to let this guy get away with fraud?? Can't somebody prosocute this asshole? He certainly doesn't deserve to benefit for his crimes, IMO. There were a lot of others involved as well. Someone needs to set an example that hoaxes of this or any nature will NOT be tolerated!
 

Philo_T

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#67
Now, now Sertile there's a large overlap between the sets of "Forteans" and "Discordian" fellow travellers. I'm sure your statement is overly broad. Some people would think that hoaxes should be encouraged. Particularly if they're instructive in nature.

Crass advertizing, on the other hand, should be punishible by a public, and excruciating death.

:p
 

FelixAntonius

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#68
Philo T said:
Crass advertizing, on the other hand, should be punishible by a public, and excruciating death.:p
I tend to agree with you Philo....

I also notice that the "dragon" is claimed to be insured for a cool half a million quid!!!! Never worth this of course, but it gives it a bit of a mark up if & when the owner decides to sell it.

Come to think of it, for the price of knocking up a latex dragon, having a bottle blown etc the author could have had his book privatelyprinted & done the rounds of the local bookshops.
 

Sertile

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#69
I s'pose my temper got the best of me... I guess I should enjoy a rather odd end to what was an odd story to begin with, eh?
 
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