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Beards & Moustaches

I was in Dereham with a friend earlier today, and we went into a caff for a coffee before we popped into an Indian restaurant.
There was a group of people in there with some small kids. After a while, the kids started running about and screaming while we were trying to have a conversation, so I persuaded my friend that it was time to move on. It was getting beyond a joke, really.
My memories of non existent and borderline social services involvement regards to this issue Mytho are

Pop pickers ..

The little lad in a Derby pub who was allowed to arse slide everything I'd just laid up on about 9 tables because his young parents were, like, too busy chatting to their other friends to even care .. thanks for that.

The young (about 3 years old) girl who was completely ignored when she was climbing up a wall unattended inside a bar I was working in in Cromer .. thanks for that.

The little boy being completely ignored who was rolling around on the floor exactly at the exit point of a busy restaurant door exit to a kitchen carrying out hot food every 30 seconds or so .. thanks for that.
 
@Swifty I'm sure that at one time (say at least 10 years ago, when I was still alive) was it not quite common for restaurants and foodie bars to build child cantons, with ball-slide play areas and craft tables (to allow the little dears to fight and eat crayons in their own space)?

Has this trend been reversed? It's been the way since mankind began. Children become adults through mutual agreement, there is no value in having them permanently-interspersed amongst adults.

There can, rarely, be six year olds that are sufficiently socially aware so as to be treated as honorary adults. Also there can be, not so rarely, immature sixteen year olds, that should not be forced early into shared adult eat/meet spaces, as they are still tall LOUD attitudinal babies.
 
@Swifty I'm sure that at one time (say at least 10 years ago, when I was still alive) was it not quite common for restaurants and foodie bars to build child cantons, with ball-slide play areas and craft tables (to allow the little dears to fight and eat crayons in their own space)?

Has this trend been reversed? It's been the way since mankind began. Children become adults through mutual agreement, there is no value in having them permanently-interspersed amongst adults.

There can, rarely, be six year olds that are sufficiently socially aware so as to be treated as honorary adults. Also there can be, not so rarely, immature sixteen year olds, that should not be forced early into shared adult eat/meet spaces, as they are still tall LOUD attitudinal babies.
Absolutely .. there's loud attitudinal babies of all ages in bars and restaurants to be fair Ermintrude ..

When I was a nipper, my Dad had an almost zero tolerance to bullshit when my parents took me and my sister out ... if we didn't behave, he'd cancel the order, pay anyway then drive us back home. We learned not to misbehave in public quickly.
 
When I was a nipper, my Dad had an almost zero tolerance to bullshit when my parents took me and my sister out ... if we didn't behave, he'd cancel the order, pay anyway then drive us back home. We learned not to misbehave in public quickly.

Same here. Totally.

And because we behaved- we got taken to some really nice, adult places and I really feel it was a great social education.
 
When I was a nipper, my Dad had an almost zero tolerance to bullshit when my parents took me and my sister out ... if we didn't behave, he'd cancel the order, pay anyway then drive us back home. We learned not to misbehave in public quickly.
That's about the long and the short of it. Keep quiet and don't touch anything.
It's my belief that these parents are just trying to give their kids a 'fully immersive childhood experience', as long as they are interacting with the real world instead of screens then it must be all good.
 
Yup, last week I took my old dear out for breakfast at the canalside cafe where Techy and I often go on t'mokes. We had a nice meal (kid-free, this being the middle of nowhere) and then went for a nice countryside drive along the usual cycle route, intending to stop for a coffee and cake further on at another cafe.

However, it must've been nursery chucking-out time or something as there was a crowd of mums and buggies outside.

I swear my tyres squealed as I speeded up and swerved past instead of pulling in! :D

They were probably lovely people and their kids might've been the best-behaved in the world but I wasn't risking it. As has been said, children are like farts. Your own are tolerable but other people's are just obnoxious.
 
When I was a nipper, my Dad had an almost zero tolerance to bullshit when my parents took me and my sister out ... if we didn't behave, he'd cancel the order, pay anyway then drive us back home. We learned not to misbehave in public quickly.

When it was 2p to use a public toilet I used to keep one in my jeans watch pocket and warn my older lad that if he showed me up I'd take him in there and wallop him. On just a couple of occasions I took it out and held it up and he instantly reverted to Good Boy mode. :D

I wouldn't really have done that but the threat of it was so awful that it worked perfectly.
 
That's about the long and the short of it. Keep quiet and don't touch anything.
It's my belief that these parents are just trying to give their kids a 'fully immersive childhood experience', as long as they are interacting with the real world instead of screens then it must be all good.

Naah, nothing so progressive. They're just bone idle, neglectful parents.

The former Mr Snail was a high school teacher and often dealt with kids of 11/12/13 whose parents wouldn't back up the school's authority. Not making them do homework, not allowing teacher-imposed punishments, that sort of thing. The parents thought it was cool to encourage the kids to rebel and do as they liked.

Mr Snail would think, yeah, see you again when little Johnny/Susie's 14/15/16 and out of control, and you're desperate for help from me, but your little darling won't listen to me because you told them not to! :mad:

The kid would be in police trouble or pregnant or just staying out/taking drugs/whatever and the parents would be out of their minds with worry. It's the epitome of the expression a rod for one's own back.

One of my nephews, now in his mid-30s, has a son of about 13 whom he is encouraging to 'rebel' in this way, possibly to spite the lad's mother from whom he is divorced. I can see trouble brewing.
 
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Naah, nothing so progressive. They're just bone idle, neglectful parents.
In at least some cases, they do not wish to stifle their child's creativity. This is a real thing in posh Edinburgh. Whole generations of children growing up having never been told NO and if anyone does, mummy and daddy will get aggressive with them. Lovely.
 
This is a real thing in posh Edinburgh.
Oh, I can just imagine how bad some will be out in Corstorphine etc.

If I ever do get through these days to the Fringe (very rare, unfortunately, nowadays) I have seen some infinitely-insufferable 'Burgh-kids that have been so 'over-invested' in, parentally, that we should just put them all far away, on a desert island....
 
In at least some cases, they do not wish to stifle their child's creativity. This is a real thing in posh Edinburgh. Whole generations of children growing up having never been told NO and if anyone does, mummy and daddy will get aggressive with them. Lovely.

It's the same thing though. Whether the parents think they are indulging the children or just can't be bothered, they are neglecting their welfare by not socialising them. If they kids have inadequate boundaries they will grow up antisocial and unable to cope with the boundaries that WILL be imposed on them sooner or later.
 
It's the same thing though. Whether the parents think they are indulging the children or just can't be bothered, they are neglecting their welfare by not socialising them. If they kids have inadequate boundaries they will grow up antisocial and unable to cope with the boundaries that WILL be imposed on them sooner or later.
My Dad was strict and my Mum was a rebel so I sort of got the best of both worlds ... my parents went to a parents evening at my school once, my Mum made me promise I wouldn't tell my Dad she'd told me but at some stage, they both sat down at my dreaded maths teacher, Mrs Lloyd ... "We'll, what are we going to do about Christian?" was the first thing she said I'm told .. so my Dad apparently and without saying a word, stood up with my Mum and walked to the next table :rofl: .. Mrs Lloyd was a total bully and a bitch so my Dad wasn't that bad after all ;) .. (My mate, with my help, ended up losing Mrs Lloyd a promotion to vice headmaster a couple of years later, she was punishing us for not being good enough at maths while at the same time sitting in her office smoking across the corridor .. after this, I was made to sit on a desk outside the classroom during her next lesson so then she was bollocked again because another teacher saw it and put a stop to it .. I couldn't give a shit either way. :p .. I got on with the rest of my teachers mostly ..
 
It's the same thing though. Whether the parents think they are indulging the children or just can't be bothered, they are neglecting their welfare by not socialising them. If they kids have inadequate boundaries they will grow up antisocial and unable to cope with the boundaries that WILL be imposed on them sooner or later.
Couldn't agree more!
 
It's my belief that these parents are just trying to give their kids a 'fully immersive childhood experience'

I think you're right.

And there are two strands of this I don't like. Firstly, the belief that this experience should be "immersive" at absolutely all costs- i.e. annoying and disturbing others. Secondly, the desire that the parent wants everyone to know just what a wonderful, rich "immersive" experience they are giving their kids. All vanity.

Being close to areas such as Southwold, Aldeburgh and North Norfolk...all places rightly labelled "Chelsea-on-Sea"...this sort of "parenting" is everywhere. Much prefer the working class- least they just thrash their kids in private ;)

Beat that for immersion :)
 
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Much prefer the working class- least they just thrash their kids in private

Encountered one boy this week whose chav-dad had encouraged him to beat the crap out of anyone who annoyed him.

A lot of teachers are annoying him, it seems - but he has given us fair warning! :oops:
 
Encountered one boy this week whose chav-dad had encouraged him to beat the crap out of anyone who annoyed him.

A lot of teachers are annoying him, it seems - but he has given us fair warning! :oops:

Violence and playstations. Good stuff.

Much prefer that to all the "Indigo, Indigo... look at this Fairtrade organic papaya Indigo..." nonsense.
 
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An incident from when our girls were in kindergarten.

My daughters were raised on a working farm where sharp spiky things and heavy machinery were commonplace, never mind the fact that kicking horses, pissed off cattle, electric fences, dams or snakes abounded, so from a very early age the word 'No' meant stop what you are doing immediately. 'leave it alone' and 'move away' were other commands commonly used - later, questions could be asked by the girls, and discussions could be held, but any command had to be responded to immediately. This allowed them to be part of what Dad was doing, and prevented them from being swathed in cotton wool.

As they grew older, the tight reign was dropped incrementally due to how they behaved and how they responded. By the age of five, the girls were good responsible kids who were allowed a largess that not very many other children their age were trusted with.

Sadly, our eldest, Faith was inducted into the social metamorphoses known as school - She was a good kid who listened to what her teacher said and wasn't a problem.

Anyway, one day we got a phone call from school asking if we could come in and talk about Faiths development, so we made the appointment and on the day, went down to have a chat with her teacher. After the usual chat had been had, the teacher recommended that Faith needed to have more activity in her daily life as her 'gross motor skills' were somewhat lacking

Now this was a child who played, ran, jumped, could play hopscotch, caught chooks, dodged cow and horse poo with ease when running though the paddocks, and climbed up into the cab of the tractor quite readily to 'help' dad plough so we were a bit mystified about all this.

The teacher went on and said that it came to her attention that Faith was 'just a little bit behind' when, as a lesson in self worth, she got all the kids in her class to stand on their chairs and Faith didn't want to - the teacher took this as an indication that Faith couldn't stand on her chair, or was scared to.

We told the teacher after her explanation that yes, Faith possibly wouldn't stand on her chair because at home, we didn't stand on chairs, we used a stepladder for that sort of thing, and that we used a chair to sit on.

Ahh, I see, said the teacher...I reckon she didn't though.

A few of Faiths class mates and their parents used to drop in for a cuppa and a chat come spring when there would be baby goats in the paddock, and so we'd go and let the children check 'em out but there would always be one of those kids [children] who would grab a strand of the electric fence [80 milliamps] even after being told not to - a hullabaloo was usually raised by the child, not so the parent - funnily enough, that child never did it twice.

In the case of little Indigo or Quentin, where's an electric fence when you need it.
 
An incident from when our girls were in kindergarten.

My daughters were raised on a working farm where sharp spiky things and heavy machinery were commonplace, never mind the fact that kicking horses, pissed off cattle, electric fences, dams or snakes abounded, so from a very early age the word 'No' meant stop what you are doing immediately. 'leave it alone' and 'move away' were other commands commonly used - later, questions could be asked by the girls, and discussions could be held, but any command had to be responded to immediately. This allowed them to be part of what Dad was doing, and prevented them from being swathed in cotton wool.

As they grew older, the tight reign was dropped incrementally due to how they behaved and how they responded. By the age of five, the girls were good responsible kids who were allowed a largess that not very many other children their age were trusted with.

Sadly, our eldest, Faith was inducted into the social metamorphoses known as school - She was a good kid who listened to what her teacher said and wasn't a problem.

Anyway, one day we got a phone call from school asking if we could come in and talk about Faiths development, so we made the appointment and on the day, went down to have a chat with her teacher. After the usual chat had been had, the teacher recommended that Faith needed to have more activity in her daily life as her 'gross motor skills' were somewhat lacking

Now this was a child who played, ran, jumped, could play hopscotch, caught chooks, dodged cow and horse poo with ease when running though the paddocks, and climbed up into the cab of the tractor quite readily to 'help' dad plough so we were a bit mystified about all this.

The teacher went on and said that it came to her attention that Faith was 'just a little bit behind' when, as a lesson in self worth, she got all the kids in her class to stand on their chairs and Faith didn't want to - the teacher took this as an indication that Faith couldn't stand on her chair, or was scared to.

We told the teacher after her explanation that yes, Faith possibly wouldn't stand on her chair because at home, we didn't stand on chairs, we used a stepladder for that sort of thing, and that we used a chair to sit on.

Ahh, I see, said the teacher...I reckon she didn't though.

A few of Faiths class mates and their parents used to drop in for a cuppa and a chat come spring when there would be baby goats in the paddock, and so we'd go and let the children check 'em out but there would always be one of those kids [children] who would grab a strand of the electric fence [80 milliamps] even after being told not to - a hullabaloo was usually raised by the child, not so the parent - funnily enough, that child never did it twice.

In the case of little Indigo or Quentin, where's an electric fence when you need it.
Nice one Mungo .. my Dad raised me the same way, common sense ..
 
An incident from when our girls were in kindergarten.

My daughters were raised on a working farm where sharp spiky things and heavy machinery were commonplace, never mind the fact that kicking horses, pissed off cattle, electric fences, dams or snakes abounded, so from a very early age the word 'No' meant stop what you are doing immediately. 'leave it alone' and 'move away' were other commands commonly used - later, questions could be asked by the girls, and discussions could be held, but any command had to be responded to immediately. This allowed them to be part of what Dad was doing, and prevented them from being swathed in cotton wool.

As they grew older, the tight reign was dropped incrementally due to how they behaved and how they responded. By the age of five, the girls were good responsible kids who were allowed a largess that not very many other children their age were trusted with.

Sadly, our eldest, Faith was inducted into the social metamorphoses known as school - She was a good kid who listened to what her teacher said and wasn't a problem.

Anyway, one day we got a phone call from school asking if we could come in and talk about Faiths development, so we made the appointment and on the day, went down to have a chat with her teacher. After the usual chat had been had, the teacher recommended that Faith needed to have more activity in her daily life as her 'gross motor skills' were somewhat lacking

Now this was a child who played, ran, jumped, could play hopscotch, caught chooks, dodged cow and horse poo with ease when running though the paddocks, and climbed up into the cab of the tractor quite readily to 'help' dad plough so we were a bit mystified about all this.

The teacher went on and said that it came to her attention that Faith was 'just a little bit behind' when, as a lesson in self worth, she got all the kids in her class to stand on their chairs and Faith didn't want to - the teacher took this as an indication that Faith couldn't stand on her chair, or was scared to.

We told the teacher after her explanation that yes, Faith possibly wouldn't stand on her chair because at home, we didn't stand on chairs, we used a stepladder for that sort of thing, and that we used a chair to sit on.

Ahh, I see, said the teacher...I reckon she didn't though.

A few of Faiths class mates and their parents used to drop in for a cuppa and a chat come spring when there would be baby goats in the paddock, and so we'd go and let the children check 'em out but there would always be one of those kids [children] who would grab a strand of the electric fence [80 milliamps] even after being told not to - a hullabaloo was usually raised by the child, not so the parent - funnily enough, that child never did it twice.

In the case of little Indigo or Quentin, where's an electric fence when you need it.
That's spot-on.

The other thing I've noticed is a tendency for Indigo or Quentin's parents to delay droves of folk, while little Quentin puts the coins in a parking meter (for example). The parents, thinking themselves progressive, are just teaching Quentin that he can take as long as he likes to do something and sod the impact on everyone else's day. Mind you that's what those parents are doing I suppose.
 
Beards have been banned from a London site:
2 June 2017 at 10:50am
Construction firm bans beards over health and safety

A construction firm has banned its employees from having beards over health and safety concerns, a union says.
Staff working for Mears at a site in Tower Hamlets, east London, were told they had to be clean-shaven so they could wear dust masks safely.

Exceptions will be made for people who cannot shave for medical reasons, a dust mask cannot be worn for medical reasons or a person has a beard for religious reasons.
Goatees may be acceptable as long as it does not impact the fitting of dust masks, a letter to employees reportedly said.

The arrogance of Mears is hair-raising. This is a highly delicate issue, which has huge cultural, religious and personal issues and where sensitivity should be the watchword. Instead members have been handed a decree from on high.

This is clearly a case of Mears going for the cheapest option and amounts to 'penny pinching stupidity'.

Other forms of masks are available and these should be offered to existing workers.

– Mark Soave, Unite

The simple fact is that no dust mask can work effectively unless it forms a seal against the skin. That is not possible with a beard or even heavy stubble.
We are pretty surprised that Unite, who claim to have the safety of workers at heart have taken this disappointing stance.

– Mark Elkington, Mears group health and safety director

Last updated Fri 2 Jun 2017

http://www.itv.com/news/london/2017-06-02/construction-firm-bans-beards-over-health-and-safety/
 
I do not like beards or moustaches, I like a clean shaven guy

So you discriminate against guys who have beards for medical or religious reasons?

I bet you clip your cat's whiskers as well.
 
Nah, they can have what they want, i dont care, but my face does not react well to them ;)

Im allergic to my cats fur if it gets near my eyes as well :p
 
Nah, they can have what they want, i dont care, but my face does not react well to them ;)

Im allergic to my cats fur if it gets near my eyes as well :p
Sounds like you're well Pogophobic!

I've used face masks when working on boats, and if anything my beard was an extra line of defense!
Of course there might be a problem if the men were working on poisonous stuff, or something like asbestos, but the company should not expect them to do that without taking extra precautions. A helmet with a pressurised, filtered air supply would do the job. After all, jobs requiring face masks usually require the wearing of safety goggles too, and a helmet would cover both functions.
 
Construction firm bans beards over health and safety

@rynner2 as you're probably aware, a variation of this rule applies in the Royal Navy /RNR/RFA.

Sailors may, of course, wear a full beard (via a formal request and subsequent approval). However, on full operational Transition To War (and certainly long before Action Stations is piped/called) they MUST agree to shave-off their beards.

This is to ensure respirators (usually made by Avon Rubber) fit correctly, and are truly gas-tight. This applies to both wartime CBRN/NBC masks and also for deck/quarters fire parties BA masks etc. Officers and sea-men qualified as SCUBA divers can only wear a beard when employed on other duties. Whenever diving, they must also (logically) be shaved.
 
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Beards have been banned from a London site:

...The simple fact is that no dust mask can work effectively unless it forms a seal against the skin. That is not possible with a beard or even heavy stubble...

I can actually see the logic with really big beards, but I suspect the kind of masks that are rendered inefficient by a bit of stubble are those which aren't worth wearing in the first place - the pathetic things that look like Victorian ladies sanitary products and which can be seen being worn by certain far eastern tourists, presumably in the belief that it will make them immortal. Not much use against any of the really harmful particulate you'll find on a building site - but the wearing of which will at least give you an idea of how your breathing is going to feel in ten years time if that's your only protection.
 
I can actually see the logic with really big beards, but I suspect the kind of masks that are rendered inefficient by a bit of stubble are those which aren't worth wearing in the first place - the pathetic things that look like Victorian ladies sanitary products and which can be seen being worn by certain far eastern tourists, presumably in the belief that it will make them immortal. Not much use against any of the really harmful particulate you'll find on a building site - but the wearing of which will at least give you an idea of how your breathing is going to feel in ten years time if that's your only protection.
I'd enjoy having this magnificent beard but just for one day .. constantly brushing bits of food and drool etc out of it must be shit.

mustache-and-beard-color-picture-WvAm.jpg
 
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Jim Carrey's current effort isn't far behind that.
 
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