Betty & Barney Hill (Remote Viewing)

Fahrenheit 451

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#1
This is just released and really interesting, even if you hold doubts about remote viewing its clear lots of interesting perspectives emerge. The Farsight Institute do some fascinating work.

 

feinman

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#4
I actually suspect that this IS the Betty & Barney Hill craft. It matches the descriptions:


http://www.angelfire.com/wa/UFORC/page64.html


*Public Notice: The Final Report of the Scientific Study of Unidentified Flying Objects was originally copyrighted in 1968 by the Regents of the University of Colorado, a body corporate. It was subsequently published in reports of the United States Air Force and other governmental agencies and was published commercially by Bantam Books (currently out of print).

Permission is granted for non-commercial use of this electronic document, to link to it, mirror it on an Internet site, or reproduce it electronically in whole or in part without modification, provided that this notice is included.

Any other use requires advance written permission from The Regents of the University of Colorado.
 

dr wu

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#6
I actually suspect that this IS the Betty & Barney Hill craft. It matches the descriptions:


http://www.angelfire.com/wa/UFORC/page64.html


*Public Notice: The Final Report of the Scientific Study of Unidentified Flying Objects was originally copyrighted in 1968 by the Regents of the University of Colorado, a body corporate. It was subsequently published in reports of the United States Air Force and other governmental agencies and was published commercially by Bantam Books (currently out of print).

Permission is granted for non-commercial use of this electronic document, to link to it, mirror it on an Internet site, or reproduce it electronically in whole or in part without modification, provided that this notice is included.

Any other use requires advance written permission from The Regents of the University of Colorado.
That was a joke ...right?
I mean that ufo above looks like every other one seen over the last 6 decades.

;)
 

feinman

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#7
That was a joke ...right?
I mean that ufo above looks like every other one seen over the last 6 decades.

;)
If you look closely, it has the two "bat" wings or projections on either side of the object as mentioned by Barney. It also appears to be elliptical and have a darkened area at front --perhaps the windows. Only problem is it might be a bit small. I've not seen any other UFO photo with the fins / wings at the sides..




https://www.ufocasebook.com/Hill3.html
 
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dr wu

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#8
I'm not even convinced that the Hills actually were abducted by 'aliens'. So talking about the type of alien craft is kind of questionable to me.
Would advanced aliens really wave or look out the window at humans they are going to abduct? Really..? What's wrong with this picture..?
 

feinman

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#9
I'm not even convinced that the Hills actually were abducted by 'aliens'. So talking about the type of alien craft is kind of questionable to me.
Would advanced aliens really wave or look out the window at humans they are going to abduct? Really..? What's wrong with this picture..?
I hear ya. I was just noting the similarity in appearance of the objects. I do believe something happened to them --the details remembered may not be real --or perhaps planted memories. I also usually don't trust hypnotism to provide accurate information.
 

EnolaGaia

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#10
If you look closely, it has the two "bat" wings or projections on either side of the object as mentioned by Barney. ... I've not seen any other UFO photo with the fins / wings at the sides.. ...
It's been decades, but ...

My recollection is that the protrusions or 'bat wings' were not a fixed feature of the craft. When the Hills first stopped in the road and Barney got out to look at the craft, two red lights progressively extended outward from the craft on forms or structures which Barney described as 'bat wings'. In other words, the 'bat wings' were telescoping or swivel-out structures upon which the red lights were visible.

I don't specifically recall whether the extended wing structures and red lights remained deployed as the craft followed Hill.
 

feinman

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#11
Right, the "wings" extended out from the sides of the craft, but to me, the object looks very similar. I actually have a number of pics of what I think are the same objects; I'll post those later.
 

dr wu

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#12
I hear ya. I was just noting the similarity in appearance of the objects. I do believe something happened to them --the details remembered may not be real --or perhaps planted memories. I also usually don't trust hypnotism to provide accurate information.
Just as a side story,,,,some years later Dr Vallee actually spent a night at her house (I believe Barney was dead by then) because she had invited him and a few others because she was going to 'call the aliens to visit her'...apparently she believed that she had the ability to contact the same group of 'aliens' that had abducted her years before.
Needless to say.....no ufos showed up.
;)
 

feinman

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#13
Just as a side story,,,,some years later Dr Vallee actually spent a night at her house (I believe Barney was dead by then) because she had invited him and a few others because she was going to 'call the aliens to visit her'...apparently she believed that she had the ability to contact the same group of 'aliens' that had abducted her years before.
Needless to say.....no ufos showed up.
;)
She also used to think UFOs were following her car when they were planets, stars, etc. iirc. Just a regular person who got a bit loopy as she got older. Doesn't mean something didn't happen.
 

Fahrenheit 451

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#14
I'm not even convinced that the Hills actually were abducted by 'aliens'. So talking about the type of alien craft is kind of questionable to me.
Would advanced aliens really wave or look out the window at humans they are going to abduct? Really..? What's wrong with this picture..?
This is where watching the Remote Viewing actually becomes more significant - because it establishes there really was an abduction. Having fun with a picture takes a lot less effort though.

If the abduction was as scary and intrusive as it sounds, it's little wonder Betty was rattled by it and affected in later years.
 

EnolaGaia

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#15
This is where watching the Remote Viewing actually becomes more significant - because it establishes there really was an abduction. Having fun with a picture takes a lot less effort though. ...
Is the point of the video the use of remote viewing to somehow validate the Hills' abduction story?

You still haven't given any clue as to how remote viewing relates to the HIlls' case.
 

dr wu

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#16
This is where watching the Remote Viewing actually becomes more significant - because it establishes there really was an abduction. Having fun with a picture takes a lot less effort though.

If the abduction was as scary and intrusive as it sounds, it's little wonder Betty was rattled by it and affected in later years.
Remote viewing proves the Hill abduction case..? Seriously..?
Oh my.....we are now in Wonderland down the rabbit hole.

;)
 

Fahrenheit 451

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#17
The remote viewing projects have been fascinating, but they are not for all - however please don't judge them without understanding the process or watching them.
 

dr wu

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#18
^ I'm pretty familiar with the whole RV scene going back to the days of people like Ed Dames and others who claimed to work for the US gubbermint. Read several books years ago and conversed on forums years ago about the phenomena.
My impression has always been that it's simply not reliable nor repeatable in most cases.
 

Fahrenheit 451

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#19
Don't you think that's it's remarkable that from a set of co-ordinates, individuals home in on the same event?Albeit with slightly different perspectives - reflecting their individual talents and sensitivities?

I'm this case the individual viewers are all young and very unlikely to have background knowledge of the case.

Since we are discussing significant events, one of the first alien abductions of the post-war war era, a fresh and independent perspective is surely to be welcomed?

To produce the video takes significant effort and it's released to us without charge. Any genuine interest in UFOlogy and I think most people would be keen to watch it. Maybe I am wrong though.
 

dr wu

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#20
Don't you think that's it's remarkable that from a set of co-ordinates, individuals home in on the same event?Albeit with slightly different perspectives - reflecting their individual talents and sensitivities?

I'm this case the individual viewers are all young and very unlikely to have background knowledge of the case.

Since we are discussing significant events, one of the first alien abductions of the post-war war era, a fresh and independent perspective is surely to be welcomed?

To produce the video takes significant effort and it's released to us without charge. Any genuine interest in UFOlogy and I think most people would be keen to watch it. Maybe I am wrong though.
Home in on the same event..? I didn't watch the whole video so I'm not sure how meaningful that is regarding what they saw was the same. Can we trust these people to be telling it truthfully?
I suppose any new insight into the Hill case would be worth discussing but I'm not sure RV is credible and reliable in the end....after all it's a form of ESP in many ways which is controversial to say the least.
 

Carl Grove

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#21
Like all ESP material it's hit and miss, and you can't be sure whether the percipient is picking up real events, or people's beliefs about it, or maybe complete fantasy. Without reliable feedback to monitor RV it goes astray easily. My interpretation of the Hills case is that it was a field test of mind control technology. My guess is that they were kidnapped in Canada and programmed with a set of false memories before the alleged sighting took place.
 

dr wu

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#22
Like all ESP material it's hit and miss, and you can't be sure whether the percipient is picking up real events, or people's beliefs about it, or maybe complete fantasy. Without reliable feedback to monitor RV it goes astray easily. My interpretation of the Hills case is that it was a field test of mind control technology. My guess is that they were kidnapped in Canada and programmed with a set of false memories before the alleged sighting took place.
That's an interesting take on it....when were they in Canada...I was not aware that's where they were.
But other than your personal feelings on it do you have anything at all to support that view?
 

Carl Grove

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#23
That's an interesting take on it....when were they in Canada...I was not aware that's where they were.
But other than your personal feelings on it do you have anything at all to support that view?
When I got interested in mind control and disinformation in the 80s I came on a lot of evidence that several classic cases were actually staged, although it wasn't until I got Stanton Friedman's book a few years ago that I became certain that the Hills case was also created maybe using mind control. I wrote up an article about it that didn't attract a lot of interest at the time, but which I will attach here -- besides the Hills I also discuss a couple of less well known cases. (The article was aimed at a US audience at a time when I was trying to make a bit extra by getting writing work online.)
 

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dr wu

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#24
When I got interested in mind control and disinformation in the 80s I came on a lot of evidence that several classic cases were actually staged, although it wasn't until I got Stanton Friedman's book a few years ago that I became certain that the Hills case was also created maybe using mind control. I wrote up an article about it that didn't attract a lot of interest at the time, but which I will attach here -- besides the Hills I also discuss a couple of less well known cases. (The article was aimed at a US audience at a time when I was trying to make a bit extra by getting writing work online.)
Thanks...I'll read the piece....and get back to you.
 

Fahrenheit 451

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#25
^ I'm pretty familiar with the whole RV scene going back to the days of people like Ed Dames and others who claimed to work for the US gubbermint. Read several books years ago and conversed on forums years ago about the phenomena.
My impression has always been that it's simply not reliable nor repeatable in most cases.
I think the days when it was just a mysterious process have long gone. The remote viewing sessions now are open and you can see the remote viewers trying to understand the impressions that flow. When you relate the impressions to what's better known, it fascinates me.
 

eburacum

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#26
Nothing about remote viewing is remotely plausible. And the only element of mind control in the Hill saga is that provided by the hypnotist, who encouraged them to free-associate new details out of their subconscious- a method that never produces useful results. Tip to UFO investigators- never encourage the use of hypnosis, or take 'recovered memories' on face value.
 

eburacum

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#27
Betty Hill seems to have been driven slightly bonkers by this incident. Here's Robert Shaeffer describing his encounter with her;
I was present at the National UFO Conference in New York City in 1980, at which Betty presented some of the UFO photos she had taken. She showed what must have been well over two hundred slides, mostly of blips, blurs, and blobs against a dark background. These were supposed to be UFOs coming in close, chasing her car, landing, etc... After her talk had exceeded about twice its allotted time, Betty was literally jeered off the stage by what had been at first a very sympathetic audience. This incident, witnessed by many of UFOlogy's leaders and top activists, removed any lingering doubts about Betty's credibility—she had none.
Assuming she was sane before this encounter, we can only really blame one of two parties; the hypnotist who recovered these dubious 'memories', or the aliens who buzzed around in the dark scaring innocent people half to death. The guilty party(ies) should be held to account.
 

GNC

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#28
That's a real shame about poor old Betty. I would blame the hypnotist, because I don't believe hypnotism is a useful investigative tool, it's too close to dreaming and we all know what kind of rubbish can pop into our heads while we dream. You could say the same about remote viewing, I suppose.
 

Carl Grove

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#29
That's a real shame about poor old Betty. I would blame the hypnotist, because I don't believe hypnotism is a useful investigative tool, it's too close to dreaming and we all know what kind of rubbish can pop into our heads while we dream. You could say the same about remote viewing, I suppose.
I think that as far as remote viewing is concerned, it seems to be the case that much of the stuff that pops into the heads of the viewers is irrelevant or fantasy, but (certainly for the better exponents) a fair percentage is amazingly accurate. For Intelligence work this is nothing out of the ordinary -- 90% of the info they get from conventional sources proves unreliable anyway. But the accurate 10% is the reason why the project was continued for so long, and why they were still getting requests for info from all the major agencies even when the decision was taken to close it. It's a fair bet that a similar project, protected under a higher level of classification, is still ongoing somewhere.

Regarding the hypnotist involved, his conclusion was only that the two witnesses believed in the reality of what they recalled -- which of course will cover both the fantasy and the mind control theories.
 

feinman

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#30
That's a real shame about poor old Betty. I would blame the hypnotist, because I don't believe hypnotism is a useful investigative tool, it's too close to dreaming and we all know what kind of rubbish can pop into our heads while we dream. You could say the same about remote viewing, I suppose.
I'm open-minded about remote viewing, but it apparently didn't prove useful because of the amount of noise and false hits. Totally agree about hypnotism.
 
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