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Bible John

McAvennie

McAvennie

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Mar 13, 2003
Messages
3,998
Interesting developments with the news that Peter Tobin had a cache of women's jewellery.

Some of it looks quite vintage and with the dates etc... matching up it could be that the infamous Bible John case could be cracked.

That has been one that has always intrigued me, would be interesting to see it wrapped up, hope it isn't just a case of conveniently putting 2 and 2 together though.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/cr ... 42610.html
 
Just heard a discussion of this on R4.
All very interesting. I'll be following any developments.

This was apparently first published in 2001 -

THE family of the man whose body was exhumed by police as part of the Bible John investigation were yesterday making no comment on a new twist to the 31-year-old mystery.

The body of John McInnes was exhumed from a graveyard in Stonehouse, Lanarkshire four-and-a-half years ago amid a blaze of publicity. Police believed that new DNA techniques could have solved the murders of three women in Glasgow's east end in 1969.

But DNA samples taken from Mr McInnes' remains proved to be inconclusive, leaving his brother Hector and his family in limbo. Hector has never spoken publicly about the strain his family suffered, but family members have privately spoken of their anger.

Now new evidence from Professor Ian Stephen, the UK's leading forensic psychologist, suggests that the real Bible John may still be alive and living in the south of England. Professor Stephen was contacted by a Scot living in America who pinpointed one of his relatives as a suspect.

The professor, whose work was the basis for the TV series Cracker, has passed the information to the police. If correct, it would clear John McInnes. A family friend said: ''It was all lies linking John McInnes with the Bible John murders. The strain on the family was and still is intense.'' Mr McInnes committed suicide in 1980, aged 41.

Helen Puttock, Jemima McDonald and Pat Docker were all murdered during Bible John's reign of terror. The murders abruptly ceased, leading police and criminal psychologists to believe that the killer had either died or moved away. Yesterday a police spokeswoman said: ''We will examine carefully the information delivered to us.''
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Edited to point out the alleged Scotland/south of England connection.
 
Still seems like a bit of a long shot. But, if it turns out that he was Bible John, it would good to see that case finally closed.

Pity it's taken so long. :(
 
Would be interesting to see an image of Tobin in the 60s as I believe there is a photofit of what BJ supposedly looked like, although whether anyone ever actually looked like a 1960s/70s photofit is another matter.
 
Hmmm :?

Reading the Independent article, it seems that now he's been convicted, the press see fit to link Tobin with practically every unsolved murder of the last 30-40 years. He can't possibly be guilty of all (if any) of them, so please tread carefully people.
 
I agree with Whistling Jack. Tread cautiously. Tobin can't sue them for libel as he has no reputation to defend. They can imply whatever they want.
 
WhistlingJack said:
Hmmm :?

Reading the Independent article, it seems that now he's been convicted, the press see fit to link Tobin with practically every unsolved murder of the last 30-40 years. He can't possibly be guilty of all (if any) of them, so please tread carefully people.
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Are you reading the same article I am? Tobin's been linked to the three Bible John murders (carried out when he lived in Glasgow and was known to frequent dance halls), the two Babes in the Woods killings (carried out when he lived in Brighton) plus two other murders. This isn't, by any stretch of the imagination, "practically every unsolved murder of the last 30-40 years" and, given that he's already murdered at least three women and brutally assaulted all of his wives, I find your assertion that he couldn't possibly be guilty of them all surprising to say the least.
 
The media and apparently the police say that he has been linked to these unsolved murders. He was living in the same area where they occurred. This last trial jury took 15 minutes to convict him. They could not have discussed the evidence in that time.

He may be guilty or he might not be guilty of the other murders. But he has already been convicted of those crimes by the media.
 
ramonmercado said:
The media and apparently the police say that he has been linked to these unsolved murders. He was living in the same area where they occurred. This last trial jury took 15 minutes to convict him. They could not have discussed the evidence in that time.
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Well, Dinah McNicol's body was found under the same patio as the body of Vicky Hamilton and the defence offered no evidence. It would be unusual to say the least if he had killed one but not the other. I'm not particularly surprised they convicted him so quickly.


He may be guilty or he might not be guilty of the other murders. But he has already been convicted of those crimes by the media.
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Again, I'm obviously not reading the same article as everyone else. After being found guilty of the Hamilton murder, he bragged about having killed 48 women. It would be a dereliction of duty on behalf of the police if they didn't investigate other murders that could be connected to him. They've been carrying on that investigation for at least 2 years and I'm not reading (certainly in the article posted above) any media hysteria surrounding it, simply a reporting of the facts of the police investigation.
 
Bigphoot2 said:
'ow's about that then?
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I can see a resemblance - but then I can also see a resemblance to Jimmy Hill, and at least one person I know personally. To be quite frank, I've never been much convinced about the efficacy of photofits in any capacity other than delineating the very broadest of features - I've always suspected that their most practical use is by way of knocking someone off a list, rather than putting them on it.

Savile was a busy broadcaster at the time of Bible John's alleged activities - and I have a feeling someone's already debunked any connection through looking at his broadcast history in comparison to the dates of the three murders, although I can't find that source just now.

It would also be very much outwith his alleged modus operandi - and the victimology is different.
 
Spookdaddy said:
I can see a resemblance - but then I can also see a resemblance to Jimmy Hill, and at least one person I know personally. To be quite frank, I've never been much convinced about the efficacy of photofits in any capacity other than delineating the very broadest of features - I've always suspected that their most practical use is by way of knocking someone off a list, rather than putting them on it.

Savile was a busy broadcaster at the time of Bible John's alleged activities - and I have a feeling someone's already debunked any connection through looking at his broadcast history in comparison to the dates of the three murders, although I can't find that source just now.

It would also be very much outwith his alleged modus operandi - and the victimology is different.
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I think the best comment I heard about photofits was that no matter who the suspect was, the photofit always made them look like David Frost.
 
Spookdaddy said:
I can see a resemblance - but then I can also see a resemblance to Jimmy Hill, and at least one person I know personally. To be quite frank, I've never been much convinced about the efficacy of photofits...
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news-reporter-rapist-search.jpg


maximus otter
 
Doubts raised over the artist's impression of Bible John.

Unearthed painting casts doubt over identity of Scots serial killer Bible John​

It features staggeringly similar features to the Bible John picture used by detectives to try to identify the man suspected of killing three women in Glasgow more than 50 years ago.



The portrait of a red-haired man was painted by artist Lennox Paterson

The portrait of a red-haired man was painted by artist Lennox Paterson


It has become one of the most infamous images in Scotland – an artist’s impression of the smirking serial killer Bible John.
But now a new portrait painted years earlier by the same artist has emerged which has cast doubt over the man police are searching for.
It features staggeringly similar features to the Bible John picture used by detectives to try to identify the man suspected of killing three women in Glasgow more than 50 years ago.
The portrait of a red-haired man was painted by artist Lennox Paterson, using the testimony of murder victim Helen Puttock’s sister Jean.

1_Screen-Shot-2021-07-16-at-212539.png

Bible John portrait.
It was the image that would shape and influence the police investigation into the murders of Jemima Macdonald, Patricia Docker and Helen in 1968 and 1969.
But now Helen’s husband George says seeing the earlier painting, from 1962, finally proves the artist’s own interpretation into the description given by Jean and other witnesses led police on a hunt for a man who doesn’t exist.

He said: “I’ve always said Bible John wasn’t real. There’s no denying the three women were murdered but I don’t believe by the same man.
"The two paintings are done in the style favoured by the artist – they are not the likeness the police wanted when they asked him to draw the face based on eyewitness testimony. The second painting is basically the child in the first as a grown-up.”
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https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/serial-killer-bible-john-portrait-24553715
 
Kryptonite said:
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/bible-john-police-officer-says-2218723

I find this theory interesting and also a little chilling...
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This was put forward in 2013 by Paul Harrison, an author who wrote a couple of sea monster / Nessie books as well as his true crime books. His books are no longer available as he was basically found out for just making shit up.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/jul/15/true-authors-interviewed-serial-killers-paul-harrison

He spoke at UnCon once as well.
 
A fascinating series: I didn't know they had the killer's DNA. I assume that the police have tried familial genetic matching?
 
DrPaulLee said:
A fascinating series: I didn't know they had the killer's DNA. I assume that the police have tried familial genetic matching?
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That struck me when I was watching it, I know it's been done in America, I just wonder if there are legal obstacles here regarding the use of ancestral DNA.
 
A short piece in the Daily Record by criminologist Professor David Wilson

DNA can’t unlock Bible John identity
I’ve spent all week answering scores of emails about Bible John and I blame my colleague Jane Hamilton with whom I endlessly debate this sequence of murders.

These emails fell into two categories. The first from those who wanted to share with me that they had “danced” with the serial killer at the Barrowland Ballroom and were more or less certain of his identity.

The second related to DNA evidence and how this might prove the guilt or innocence of a number of different suspects but specifically Peter Tobin.

I have to be honest and – without being too flippant – say that if everyone who claimed to have danced with Bible John had actually done so, then I doubt that he would ever have had the time to commit any murders.

As for DNA evidence, a subject I considered at some length for a book I wrote about the case, I was assured by detectives on the case that there was no “usable” DNA – how it had been collected and then stored meant that it was degraded and was therefore unreliable.
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https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/junk-science-hindering-crime-fighting-25623770
 
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