Bigfoot / Sasquatch In North America

Sharon Hill

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Sharon Hill

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Re: The Unidentified. I'm not overly impressed by his sources. He didn't always get it right. But the writing and explanations are excellent so far. There is no index and I dislike the endnotes, which are not really proper references here. References are super important to me for any non-fiction book. Otherwise, it's rather useless. I suspect this is a publisher's decision because, frankly, publishers are incredibly stupid these days and they don't know what people actually want. (I'm convinced they don't do anything useful that you couldn't do better by your own methods.)
 

Mythopoeika

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lordmongrove

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Fouke monster documentary (the bigfoot skeleton is a big cat, lion or tiger
 

Endlessly Amazed

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Hi Guys –
This is my first on-topic post. If this is in the wrong discussion or needs its own, please moderators move it. (and hey moderators, what’s up with the fresh blood label for new folks ?!?)

I took a photo of what appears to be a naked footprint in an unlikely place, and wish to share it with you.
  • My predispositional biases in the matter. Years ago, I was persuaded by bio-mechanical analyses of Patty (and other types of evidence and analysis, but Patty did it for me) that sasquatches (yeti, wildmen, primitive hominids, etc.) are real and currently exist, despite the conclusions of mainstream science and despite the media charlatans and lunatic fringe of every stripe. So, when my husband and I would go out into the woods, we would keep an eye out for evidence. Despite all this, I never have seen a sasquatch, but have seen very puzzling disruption of the vegetation in California and in Indiana which I could not interpret more conventionally.
  • Context of the footprint. My husband and I were driving on Arizona state road 89A at 4:30 pm on January 3, 2019. This is in Northern Arizona, and it was pretty cold – about 35degrees farenheit and the wind was blowing. Earlier in the day, it had gotten up to about 40 degrees. The weather was overcast but not raining. This is a very remote and deserted part of the landscape, especially in the dead of winter. The exact location, alas! I can’t recall, but it was probably no more than 2 miles from Marble Canyon (google map geocoordinates 36.8180 – 111.6237). This is close to Lee’s Ferry on the Colorado River. I have reconstructed this best guess based on the photos preceeding and following the photo of the mystery footprint. I would occasionally stop the car to take touristo photos of the landscape and sky. Sasquatch was the last thing on my mind.
  • I stopped the car, and walked about 100 feet off the road up the beginning of a small canyon in between a lot of big rocks (70 feet high). The ground slanted up at a pretty steep angle; maybe 30 degrees. The terrain was a mixture of sharp shale rocks and bigger rocks and pebbles. Very little vegetation. The ground was semifrozen and pretty hard. Not soft or slushy at all. I noticed a track of very indistinct impressions in a line, disappearing up the side of a cliff. They were about 3 feet apart from each other. I took a closer look and saw that one of them was, astoundingly, a footprint of a naked human foot. This was the only impression in the line of prints which appeared to be a clear footprint. It was located on the steep side of a small mound in the ground. I was the only person to see this. My husband is disabled and not capable of walking on uneven ground.
  • Description of the footprint. My hiking boot, for comparison, is 4 x 11 inches wide x long, measured on the sole. The footprint was slightly bigger. It pressed down into the soil about 1 – 1 ¼ inches. I weigh 130 pounds, and jumping up and down as hard as I could, I could make no impression on the soil at all. I knelt down to get a closer look and could make out the 5 individual toe prints, and that the soil had been pushed back from the toes as the person (?) pushed off the toes in a forward motion while moving at speed. The toes and heel part of the impression were separated by a shallower, less distinct impression. I could trace the tracks up the side of the canyon, but lost it as the steep angle of the ground made it impossible to follow.
  • What is it? Well, first of all, WTF?!? I find it hard to believe that any human being, even after a lifetime of walking barefoot, could have run on those sharp and uneven rocks. I think that a person wearing sasquatch shoes in an effort to fool someone could not have made those distinct individual toes with the soil pushed back from them. The location, in the winter in the middle of nowhere, seems an unlikely spot to stage a hoax. So, what was it?
Comments, please. … and ruminations on the current philosophy of science which makes these types of prints so problematic.
Also, how do I reduce the file size so I can post the photo? JPEG and GIF are both 13 MB. Help, please!

Endlessly Amazed AKA Deb
 

EnolaGaia

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A well-documented and detailed account - thanks for that!

Also, how do I reduce the file size so I can post the photo? JPEG and GIF are both 13 MB. Help, please!
Do you have an image / photo app that would allow you to make a copy of the photo and reduce it in size? (Tip: Don't mess with the original ... )

Otherwise ... Can you post the photo somewhere (e.g., an image sharing site)? If so, post it and PM me with the photo's address. I'll download it and reduce it to post-able size.
 

gordonrutter

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Hi Guys –
This is my first on-topic post. If this is in the wrong discussion or needs its own, please moderators move it. (and hey moderators, what’s up with the fresh blood label for new folks ?!?)

I took a photo of what appears to be a naked footprint in an unlikely place, and wish to share it with you.
  • My predispositional biases in the matter. Years ago, I was persuaded by bio-mechanical analyses of Patty (and other types of evidence and analysis, but Patty did it for me) that sasquatches (yeti, wildmen, primitive hominids, etc.) are real and currently exist, despite the conclusions of mainstream science and despite the media charlatans and lunatic fringe of every stripe. So, when my husband and I would go out into the woods, we would keep an eye out for evidence. Despite all this, I never have seen a sasquatch, but have seen very puzzling disruption of the vegetation in California and in Indiana which I could not interpret more conventionally.
  • Context of the footprint. My husband and I were driving on Arizona state road 89A at 4:30 pm on January 3, 2019. This is in Northern Arizona, and it was pretty cold – about 35degrees farenheit and the wind was blowing. Earlier in the day, it had gotten up to about 40 degrees. The weather was overcast but not raining. This is a very remote and deserted part of the landscape, especially in the dead of winter. The exact location, alas! I can’t recall, but it was probably no more than 2 miles from Marble Canyon (google map geocoordinates 36.8180 – 111.6237). This is close to Lee’s Ferry on the Colorado River. I have reconstructed this best guess based on the photos preceeding and following the photo of the mystery footprint. I would occasionally stop the car to take touristo photos of the landscape and sky. Sasquatch was the last thing on my mind.
  • I stopped the car, and walked about 100 feet off the road up the beginning of a small canyon in between a lot of big rocks (70 feet high). The ground slanted up at a pretty steep angle; maybe 30 degrees. The terrain was a mixture of sharp shale rocks and bigger rocks and pebbles. Very little vegetation. The ground was semifrozen and pretty hard. Not soft or slushy at all. I noticed a track of very indistinct impressions in a line, disappearing up the side of a cliff. They were about 3 feet apart from each other. I took a closer look and saw that one of them was, astoundingly, a footprint of a naked human foot. This was the only impression in the line of prints which appeared to be a clear footprint. It was located on the steep side of a small mound in the ground. I was the only person to see this. My husband is disabled and not capable of walking on uneven ground.
  • Description of the footprint. My hiking boot, for comparison, is 4 x 11 inches wide x long, measured on the sole. The footprint was slightly bigger. It pressed down into the soil about 1 – 1 ¼ inches. I weigh 130 pounds, and jumping up and down as hard as I could, I could make no impression on the soil at all. I knelt down to get a closer look and could make out the 5 individual toe prints, and that the soil had been pushed back from the toes as the person (?) pushed off the toes in a forward motion while moving at speed. The toes and heel part of the impression were separated by a shallower, less distinct impression. I could trace the tracks up the side of the canyon, but lost it as the steep angle of the ground made it impossible to follow.
  • What is it? Well, first of all, WTF?!? I find it hard to believe that any human being, even after a lifetime of walking barefoot, could have run on those sharp and uneven rocks. I think that a person wearing sasquatch shoes in an effort to fool someone could not have made those distinct individual toes with the soil pushed back from them. The location, in the winter in the middle of nowhere, seems an unlikely spot to stage a hoax. So, what was it?
Comments, please. … and ruminations on the current philosophy of science which makes these types of prints so problematic.
Also, how do I reduce the file size so I can post the photo? JPEG and GIF are both 13 MB. Help, please!

Endlessly Amazed AKA Deb
How was the weather beforehand? You describe the ground as semi frozen and you barely made a mark yourself, was the weather such that the prints may have been made earlier and then the ground froze to preserve them?
 

Endlessly Amazed

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Gordonrutter - Yes, I agree with you that the print was likely made before the ground got hard, and then froze almost intact. I don't know what the weather or temperature was in the days before I saw the print. Trying to get robust evidence (to discard likely, alternate hypotheses which prove to be fatally flawed) for this weird stuff is more difficult than I had originally thought. One can't set up a controlled experiment.

Enola - I'm working on reducing the file size.

Mythopoeika meat popsicle- hhhhmmmmm.......
 

Mythopoeika

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Mythopoeika meat popsicle- hhhhmmmmm.......
That's a custom classification. It's a reference to the Fifth Element, where Korben Dallas is asked the question 'are you classified as human?' - to which he replies 'negative, I am a meat popsicle'.
 

kamalktk

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One argument against Bigfoot is where are the bones from all along the presumed migration path from asia over the land bridge down into the Pacific Northwest.

That terrain is not exactly conducive to archaeology though, with extreme cold, permafrost passing into often below zero with heavy precipitation and deep forest.

How difficult is archaeology in the migration path? Would any bone evidence of migration have been destroyed by ice age glacial scrubbing of the terrain?
 

EnolaGaia

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The terrain isn't especially inimical to preservation of fossils, but the Beringia land bridge region is huge. In other words, it isn't so much a loss of evidence to seek as figuring out where to seek it in the first place.

The bigger problem is deciding which basic speculative storylines are being tested. Is the Sasquatch ancestor assumed to be an early Homo (e.g., Homo erectus), or is it assumed to be some other relict hominin or pongid (e.g., Gigantopithecus)? The choice of ancestor / descent affects possible timeframes, and this in turn affects whether the Beringia land bridge was even available for such a migration.

Here's an illustrative example ... Let's choose Gigantopithecus as the ancestor, and its known regional range (China) as the earliest point of origin. Gigantopithecus evidence is very scarce, and it suggests the species lived from circa 2.0 - 2.5 million years BP up until circa 300,000 years BP. The Beringia land bridge is not believed to have existed to permit crossing to the Americas during this timeframe.
 
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Mikefule

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One argument against Bigfoot is where are the bones from all along the presumed migration path from asia over the land bridge down into the Pacific Northwest.
I imagine everyone in this forum would like to feel able to believe that Bigfoot exists, but the evidence is not there.

All of the various "relict hominids" or "apemen" (Sasquatch, Yeti, etc.) are different. The existence or otherwise of one "species" does not prove or disprove the existence of another. However, they all present the same basic challenges to someone who would like to believe on the basis of evidence.

All or most human and ape species are/were social creatures rather than loners. As individuals and as groups, they need to eat, drink, sleep, defecate, meet, breed, raise their young, and eventually die. Each of these things would create and leave some evidence, particularly as there are people out there actively looking for them, and almost everyone carries a powerful movie/still camera with them these days.

Where are the remains of the food, the sightings and numerous footprints near to water sources, spoor, nests or shelters, meeting places marked by footprints and the like, sightings of them with their young, and their bones, teeth or fossils? There should be some, and there should be some clear photos and reliable video evidence by now. Sadly, I see none. A few blurred photos and shaky films, some of questionable provenance.

We have photos and film of giant squid, and of coelacanths in their natural environment, but little or nothing to compare when it comes to a large species said to live on land.

The absence of evidence that ought to be available is a form of evidence in itself.
 

Naughty_Felid

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I imagine everyone in this forum would like to feel able to believe that Bigfoot exists, but the evidence is not there.

All of the various "relict hominids" or "apemen" (Sasquatch, Yeti, etc.) are different. The existence or otherwise of one "species" does not prove or disprove the existence of another. However, they all present the same basic challenges to someone who would like to believe on the basis of evidence.

All or most human and ape species are/were social creatures rather than loners. As individuals and as groups, they need to eat, drink, sleep, defecate, meet, breed, raise their young, and eventually die. Each of these things would create and leave some evidence, particularly as there are people out there actively looking for them, and almost everyone carries a powerful movie/still camera with them these days.

Where are the remains of the food, the sightings and numerous footprints near to water sources, spoor, nests or shelters, meeting places marked by footprints and the like, sightings of them with their young, and their bones, teeth or fossils? There should be some, and there should be some clear photos and reliable video evidence by now. Sadly, I see none. A few blurred photos and shaky films, some of questionable provenance.

We have photos and film of giant squid, and of coelacanths in their natural environment, but little or nothing to compare when it comes to a large species said to live on land.

The absence of evidence that ought to be available is a form of evidence in itself.
Yeah and that sort of fuels the otherwordly aspect of Bigfoot and Dogmen. Even if 90% are misidentification of bears what are the other 10% seeing?
 

Mikefule

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Yeah and that sort of fuels the otherwordly aspect of Bigfoot and Dogmen. Even if 90% are misidentification of bears what are the other 10% seeing?
von Däniken's principle: If we exclude 90% as misidentification, and 90% of what's left as hoaxes, that still leaves 1% unexplained. Look how reasonable we've been excluding 99% of our cases. But if the 1% left over are genuinely anomalous, then how many of the other 99% are anomalous, after all, and not misidentifications or hoaxes? Mein Gott! They are everywhere!
 

Mythopoeika

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One argument against Bigfoot is where are the bones from all along the presumed migration path from asia over the land bridge down into the Pacific Northwest.
It's a good point, but most bones disintegrate fairly quickly. It's very rare for them to become fossilised or remain preserved on the surface.
That said, you'd think at least a few would have been found by now.
 
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