Bigfoot / Sasquatch In North America

PeteByrdie

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That's very true.

But at the same time lots of people do see something. (Like lots of people say they see ghosts or ABCs). So to say 'no poo = no bigfoot' is true, and very rational, but it's kind of dodging an explanation (unless the explanation is 'all the people are making it all up / are mistaken'). So the explanation isn't really any easier if there is no physical bigfoot. Because it needs an explanation that isn't about things that are easy to do experiments on (even if that's why people make it up / get mistaken). Don't you think? :)
All good points. Similarly, explanations such as the creature being a combination of misidentifions and hoaxes are more simple than that there is a breeding population of large primates in North America that has gone unproven, but are no less satisfying. Part of the reason is that a case can be shown to be a hoax, but that still leaves a bunch of cases that can't be resolved. We're stuck between having lots of ways to dismiss a phenomenon in an unsatisfactory way, or piling on further, also unsatisfactory and unprovable conjectures involving spiritual beings or alternate worlds, or accepting there are large, terrestrial animals living alongside us that we just haven't the evidence or ability to find and prove. But we're forteans, and that's our wheelhouse as much as it can be anyone's.
 

lordmongrove

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And what conclusions have been drawn?
E-DNA from Bhutan was found to be a primate sharing 98% of its DNA with man, making it as closely related to humans as a gorilla is. The mitochondirial DNA from the Caucausus samples seems to suggest an unknown hominin. Sadly in the latter case the scientist died before he could finnish all his work. If written an FT article on these two cases. Hopefully Dave will use it in an upcomming issue.
 

PeteByrdie

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E-DNA from Bhutan was found to be a primate sharing 98% of its DNA with man, making it as closely related to humans as a gorilla is. The mitochondirial DNA from the Caucausus samples seems to suggest an unknown hominin. Sadly in the latter case the scientist died before he could finnish all his work. If written an FT article on these two cases. Hopefully Dave will use it in an upcomming issue.
Have these results been verified by different labs?
 

stu neville

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We're stuck between having lots of ways to dismiss a phenomenon in an unsatisfactory way,
..or, the proposition I'm working on, that there are indeed multiple phenomena that we interpret the same way, ditto ghosts, UFOs, etc etc. There could be a lot of things going on, but our own perceptive filters channel each into narrow categories. This of course on top of mistaken mundane sightings, active hoaxing (actually rarer than we tend to think in non-filmed encounters) and so on. As a result there could well be flesh and blood creatures as well as dimensional beings, spirits, fae, whatever you want to call them but our brains interpret what we see based on context and cultural expectations.
 

FunkyTT

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If you're interested, so much of this turns up on Sasquatch Chronicles. (I have become a total SC addict.) I can see many parallels with fairy and poltergeist reports as well (and Jenny Randles' 'Oz effect' frequently turns up, though I've not heard anyone call it that on the podcast yet). I have just bought this
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0882N61XN/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
'Where the footprints end - high strangeness and the bigfoot phenomenon' by Cutchin and Renner, which examines the connections. So can recommend you that too!


I already follow that channel, along with Dogman encounters, beyond creepy, bedtime stories, ect
 

lordmongrove

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Have these results been verified by different labs?
As far as i know the the sample from the Himalayas that was in a lab in France was examined by one genetisist. The CFZ tried to get hold of the sample then the company said they had destroyed it. Utterly baffling! The Russian sample was in a UK lab and examined by two genetisists one of who has now passed away. I have no contact for the second one and don't know if further testes are being done. Incredibly frustraiting!
 

Mythopoeika

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As far as i know the the sample from the Himalayas that was in a lab in France was examined by one genetisist. The CFZ tried to get hold of the sample then the company said they had destroyed it. Utterly baffling!
This kind of thing seems to happen a lot. Not sure why.
 

Coastaljames

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There could be a lot of things going on, but our own perceptive filters channel each into narrow categories.

Of course this is the case.

I always go back to the report of three boys going into the woods. One sees a white hairy humanoid that projects feelings of wellbeing. One sees a black hairy humanoid that prejects feelings of terror. One sees nothing at all. I believe everyone of them.


Tree-knocks in a house would be poltergeist activity. In the woods they are Bigfoot.

There is a phenomena.

We create what it "is".
 
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lordmongrove

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Of course this is the case.

I always go back to the report of three boys going into the woods. One sees a white hairy humanoid that projects feelings of wellbeing. One sees a black hairy humanoid that prejects feelings of terror. One sees nothing at all. I believe everyone of them.


Tree-knocks in a house would be poltergeist activity. In the woods they are Bigfoot.

There is a phenomena.

We create what it "is".
How about the DNA, ghost do not leave behind DNA as far as i'm aware.
 

lordmongrove

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Small samples are often destroyed by the process of testing them for DNA
Apparently this one had been used and was still in existence at the Spygen lab in France but was destroyed by them for reasons unknown. I'm inclined to think stupidity rater than conspiracy.
 

stu neville

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How about the DNA, ghost do not leave behind DNA as far as i'm aware.
That's my point though - in some encounters there may well be flesh and blood creatures, but an awful lot of cases it could be a whole manner of things all of which we perceive as big, black shapes, and in the context of a Bigfoot-associated area that's the identification people will leap to.
 

PeteByrdie

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Neither do bigfoot.
Call me an old cynic, but I'm not convinced by a couple of samples of DNA that could presumably have originated from any animal and which have each only been examined by a single lab. At this stage, after so many years of sightings and so little convincing evidence, for anything to be conclusive it needs to withstand the highest scientific rigour.
 

lordmongrove

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Call me an old cynic, but I'm not convinced by a couple of samples of DNA that could presumably have originated from any animal and which have each only been examined by a single lab. At this stage, after so many years of sightings and so little convincing evidence, for anything to be conclusive it needs to withstand the highest scientific rigour.
That's why we wanted to get hold of the French sample to replicate the tests but the morons had destroyed them. I'm hoping something can be done with the sample in the UK but i have no idea who has it.
 

Coastaljames

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That's why we wanted to get hold of the French sample to replicate the tests but the morons had destroyed them.

There is a long history of bigfoot "evidence" being accidently destroyed, misplaced, lost in transit. I think this leads to some interesting questions.


Worthy of note - historically, items that people claim the faerie folk gifted them were also claimed to simply disappear after a time.

Items that people claim UFO occupants gifted them, or were taken from craft, were also claimed to simply disappear, or be stolen, or lost.


"Evidence" of many aspects of paranormal phenomena very often go poof, in a puff of smoke. And vanish in one way or another.

Worth thinking about.
 

lordmongrove

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There is a long history of bigfoot "evidence" being accidently destroyed, misplaced, lost in transit. I think this leads to some interesting questions.


Worthy of note - historically, items that people claim the faerie folk gifted them were also claimed to simply disappear after a time.

Items that people claim UFO occupants gifted them, or were taken from craft, were also claimed to simply disappear, or be stolen, or lost.


"Evidence" of many aspects of paranormal phenomena very often go poof, in a puff of smoke. And vanish in one way or another.

Worth thinking about.
Items from faeries and UFO occupants were never examined in labs by respected scientists and declared real.
 

Coastaljames

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Items from faeries and UFO occupants were never examined in labs by respected scientists and declared real.

Real? What bigfoot "evidence" has been examined in labs and declared real?

I have absolutely no doubt you will provde me with lots.


But none of that takes anything away from the original point I made.
 

lordmongrove

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Real? What bigfoot "evidence" has been examined in labs and declared real?

I have absolutely no doubt you will provde me with lots.


But none of that takes anything away from the original point I made.
Two respected geneticists examined samples of eDNA and mitochondrial DNA. The former, taken from a Himalayan pool shared 98% of its DNA with modern man, making it as closely related to us as a gorilla is, suggesting it's owner was a great ape, a creature unknown in the area. The latter was found to be from an 'unknown hominin' meaning a relation of one of the ancestors of man and more closely related to us than the apes.
 

Endlessly Amazed

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Real? What bigfoot "evidence" has been examined in labs and declared real?

I have absolutely no doubt you will provde me with lots.


But none of that takes anything away from the original point I made.
Coastaljames – You are actively engaged in this discussion, and I appreciate the thought behind some of your comments. What I would find really useful would be if you could elaborate on your thoughts more completely. I can’t easily follow your presentation style (single sentence rebuttals, incomplete sentences, etc.). Also, it may just be me, but when I read “I have absolutely no doubt you will provde me with lots,” this comes across as sarcastic, which detracts from your points.

I would not want you to think my comments are merely generated because I disagree with them. There are posters who have a very different orientation than I do on Forteana. However, when they post, they are careful and complete in how they present their thoughts, and so I find it easy - and beneficial - to understand the postings.

For the record, I have personally seen disruption to the vegetation in forests for which I can come up with no conventional explanation.
 

SimonBurchell

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There is a long history of bigfoot "evidence" being accidently destroyed, misplaced, lost in transit. I think this leads to some interesting questions.


Worthy of note - historically, items that people claim the faerie folk gifted them were also claimed to simply disappear after a time.

Items that people claim UFO occupants gifted them, or were taken from craft, were also claimed to simply disappear, or be stolen, or lost.


"Evidence" of many aspects of paranormal phenomena very often go poof, in a puff of smoke. And vanish in one way or another.

Worth thinking about.
I think you are absolutely right. I think an intrinsic property of the paranormal is its unprovability, so casting around for the definitive sample, photo, video, artefact etc. will always, somehow, prove fruitless, with enough doubt entering the equation for the phenomena to be able to be dismissed by those so inclined. I remember reading either in the Scole Experiment book or the Scole Report that one of the sitters asked for an impossible-to-manufacture apport such as two linked wooden rings made from different types of wood. I can't remember, or find, the exact response but it was something along the lines of such an artefact being against some sort of rule or law that means there must always be an element of doubt. I realise that just sounds like an easy cop out, but I think there may be something to it. I am convinced of the existence of the paranormal... I've had too many run-ins down the years not to be, but I do not expect it to be proven, because I think proof is against its nature, and I don't expect to be able to convince anyone. It is just not subject to materialist approaches.
 

Coastaljames

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The former, taken from a Himalayan pool shared 98% of its DNA with modern man, making it as closely related to us as a gorilla is, suggesting it's owner was a great ape, a creature unknown in the area. The latter was found to be from an 'unknown hominin'

Your conclusive and "real" seems a bit different from mine, respectfully.

However, when they post, they are careful and complete in how they present their thoughts, and so I find it easy - and beneficial - to understand the postings.

I am here to express myself in a way I see fit. It would be no fun or enjoyment to me if I thought and wrote in a way someone else wanted me to. And why would anyone want me to elaborate on my thoughts? They have no value. I do not know anything about any of this stuff. I am genuinely sorry if my thoughts are not clear to you...but you're not missing out on anything I assure you!

It is just not subject to materialist approaches.

Bigfoot and yetis and UFOs and ghosts are real.

But not real like a car or a shoe.

Which doesn't make cars or shoes more or less real than ghosts and bigfoot. It just means they're different real. It has only been in the last hundred years ago where this was in anyway a contraversial or suprising idea. Go to Iceland and you'll find it widespread and accepted. Thailand, Romania, Aboriginal Australia, Nigeria, rural Italy, Japan, Puerto Rico...probably more "places" and cultures feel like this than don't.

I've had too many run-ins down the years not to be, but I do not expect it to be proven, because I think proof is against its nature, and I don't expect to be able to convince anyone.

Fantastic statement! I feel very much the same. Thank you for it.


Scole Experiment

I went to Scole on Saturday! Tried to find the house but couldn't. Need to be on foot I think and didn't have time.
 

lordmongrove

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Your conclusive and "real" seems a bit different from mine, respectfully.



I am here to express myself in a way I see fit. It would be no fun or enjoyment to me if I thought and wrote in a way someone else wanted me to. And why would anyone want me to elaborate on my thoughts? They have no value. I do not know anything about any of this stuff. I am genuinely sorry if my thoughts are not clear to you...but you're not missing out on anything I assure you!



Bigfoot and yetis and UFOs and ghosts are real.

But not real like a car or a shoe.

Which doesn't make cars or shoes more or less real than ghosts and bigfoot. It just means they're different real. It has only been in the last hundred years ago where this was in anyway a contraversial or suprising idea. Go to Iceland and you'll find it widespread and accepted. Thailand, Romania, Aboriginal Australia, Nigeria, rural Italy, Japan, Puerto Rico...probably more "places" and cultures feel like this than don't.



Fantastic statement! I feel very much the same. Thank you for it.




I went to Scole on Saturday! Tried to find the house but couldn't. Need to be on foot I think and didn't have time.
So what left this DNA then? Two experts in the field say primates but not known ones. The yeti and almasty make perfect sense as flesh and blood creature there is no need for a 'paranormal' explanation for them. Owlman, Mothman and other such oddities may be a whole different kettle of fish though.
 

dr wu

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To lordmongrove,
I apologize for missing this in the thread but what happened to the 'bigfoot dna' that 2 scientists concluded to be primate?
Was it stolen , lost, ? :thought:
 

Kondoru

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If a Yeti was proven its known site would be a magnet for the global press.

I can just see the Bhutanese govt liking that; they are well known for their privacy.

(Have you ever been there, Lord Mongrove?)
 
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