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There you go. And after 30 odd years of 'woo-woo' and berks telling me

  1. berks telling me '**insert phenomena here**' "doesn't work like that"
  2. the insane belief that the plural of anecdote is data, and my near favourite, the perennial
  3. "that doesn't mean it can't be true",
  4. I'm forced to conclude the material world is surprisingly mundane, obeys the laws of probability perfectly well, and the only odd things that happen are inside people's heads.
  5. Regret, therefore, have lost interest in any phenomena for which proper evidence is not available. Life genuinely is too short.

But, at least you can study them. They're real.
I added the numbering, without changing the words, Mikefule

You write as one who is feeling despondent.

I feel your pain, and I agree that 1, 2 and 3 are irritating. I would add to your list, " 3A: You can't prove a negative."

Your point 4 makes sense except for "the only odd things that happen are inside people's heads."

Most people would define "odd" as something that people perceive as strange, unexpected, peculiar, anomalous (etc.) and there are plenty of odd things that exist outside of people's heads simply because our knowledge of the universe is imperfect.

The first time that we discovered the coelacanth, or the first time we discovered that certain snakes can reproduce asexually, or that fish can change sex, or that the giant squid exists, or that cave dwelling orange crocodiles were a separate species that had evolved for the cave environment, or that blue holes can suck you down, it was "odd".

These things are no longer odd because we have the evidence, we understand them (more or less) and they are part of the scientific mainstream. In the case of the blue holes, for example, the phenomenon exists , although it is not caused by a monster inhaling, as the natives believed. It's caused by he tides acting through interconnecting caves.

There are plenty of other odd things which one day will become normal and accepted.

Part of the fun of being my sort of Fortean is trying to decide which "odd" things are the ones that have a plausible chance of becoming part of the mainstream; which ones are hoaxes or obvious misunderstandings; and which ones are merely fanciful.

I have little in common with the sort of Fortean who is determined to believe regardless of the absence of evidence, or the discovery of evidence to the contrary, except a sense of wonder or amusement when I come across something outside the norm.

As for your point 5 on the list, I have to disagree. Surely the world is full of things which are plausible, or even likely, but as yet there is no concrete evidence. Maybe not yetis, or the mothman, or international conspiracy by a cabal of Freemasons, Templars, illuminati, and shape shifting lizards, but perhaps some of the more interesting if somewhat less superficially spectacular stuff.

I do agree, however, that life is too short.
 
I added the numbering, without changing the words, Mikefule

You write as one who is feeling despondent.

I feel your pain, and I agree that 1, 2 and 3 are irritating. I would add to your list, " 3A: You can't prove a negative."

Your point 4 makes sense except for "the only odd things that happen are inside people's heads."

Most people would define "odd" as something that people perceive as strange, unexpected, peculiar, anomalous (etc.) and there are plenty of odd things that exist outside of people's heads simply because our knowledge of the universe is imperfect.

The first time that we discovered the coelacanth, or the first time we discovered that certain snakes can reproduce asexually, or that fish can change sex, or that the giant squid exists, or that cave dwelling orange crocodiles were a separate species that had evolved for the cave environment, or that blue holes can suck you down, it was "odd".

These things are no longer odd because we have the evidence, we understand them (more or less) and they are part of the scientific mainstream. In the case of the blue holes, for example, the phenomenon exists , although it is not caused by a monster inhaling, as the natives believed. It's caused by he tides acting through interconnecting caves.

There are plenty of other odd things which one day will become normal and accepted.

Part of the fun of being my sort of Fortean is trying to decide which "odd" things are the ones that have a plausible chance of becoming part of the mainstream; which ones are hoaxes or obvious misunderstandings; and which ones are merely fanciful.

I have little in common with the sort of Fortean who is determined to believe regardless of the absence of evidence, or the discovery of evidence to the contrary, except a sense of wonder or amusement when I come across something outside the norm.

As for your point 5 on the list, I have to disagree. Surely the world is full of things which are plausible, or even likely, but as yet there is no concrete evidence. Maybe not yetis, or the mothman, or international conspiracy by a cabal of Freemasons, Templars, illuminati, and shape shifting lizards, but perhaps some of the more interesting if somewhat less superficially spectacular stuff.

I do agree, however, that life is too short.
Nice post. :hoff:

I've been poking about Forteana for over 30 years and my experience is that the vast majority of phenomena that we label as such, are as elusive today as they were in 1980 when I regularly hoovered up books on divers Fortean things.

While I agree with you there are genuine oddities that have been found and discovered, and some which might yet turn out to have a verifiable cause, which is part of the fun, all the 'big tropes' today, e.g. ghosts, bigfoot, Nessie, alien visitations, are no more proven today than they were in 1980.

I am forced by this, against hope and desire perhaps, to consider a far more likely explanation for the continued existence of a whole range of phenomena, that is, they only have one common factor, viz. 'people'.

Testing this hypothesis; it turns out there is a mountain of decent experiments showing beyond any reasonable doubt that people see what they expect, see what they want, see what confirms their existing beliefs and even see what other people have already said they can see.

So. It turns out that after a personal 30 odd years of reading about this stuff, there is no verifiable material evidence for (e.g.) ghosts. However there is a butt-load of solid work showing 'people who believe in ghosts are more likely to see ghosts', 'people who are expecting to see ghosts, see ghosts', 'people who want to see ghosts, see ghosts', and so on.

Nothing is 100% certain of course and everything is theoretically possible. Tiny invisible hummingbirds may be nesting in my sinuses (which would explain a lot), you can't prove they're not. It's possible. But possible can be a very very very very very very very very very small chance, FAPP, 'not possible'.

So long experience in conjunction with considerable actual evidence currently indicates that, unless my entire life is an illusion (possible, not likely), most of the 'biggest' phenomena are the product of the people, probably their minds. Simply that. In and of itself, that's interesting.

However, if you'd told me you'd seen yellow crocodiles in a cave system? Well, that's not completely silly. I'll take a look. Got a decent picture?
 
Nice post. :hoff:

I've been poking about Forteana for over 30 years and my experience is that the vast majority of phenomena that we label as such, are as elusive today as they were in 1980 when I regularly hoovered up books on divers Fortean things.

While I agree with you there are genuine oddities that have been found and discovered, and some which might yet turn out to have a verifiable cause, which is part of the fun, all the 'big tropes' today, e.g. ghosts, bigfoot, Nessie, alien visitations, are no more proven today than they were in 1980.

I am forced by this, against hope and desire perhaps, to consider a far more likely explanation for the continued existence of a whole range of phenomena, that is, they only have one common factor, viz. 'people'.

Testing this hypothesis; it turns out there is a mountain of decent experiments showing beyond any reasonable doubt that people see what they expect, see what they want, see what confirms their existing beliefs and even see what other people have already said they can see.

So. It turns out that after a personal 30 odd years of reading about this stuff, there is no verifiable material evidence for (e.g.) ghosts. However there is a butt-load of solid work showing 'people who believe in ghosts are more likely to see ghosts', 'people who are expecting to see ghosts, see ghosts', 'people who want to see ghosts, see ghosts', and so on.

Nothing is 100% certain of course and everything is theoretically possible. Tiny invisible hummingbirds may be nesting in my sinuses (which would explain a lot), you can't prove they're not. It's possible. But possible can be a very very very very very very very very very small chance, FAPP, 'not possible'.

So long experience in conjunction with considerable actual evidence currently indicates that, unless my entire life is an illusion (possible, not likely), most of the 'biggest' phenomena are the product of the people, probably their minds. Simply that. In and of itself, that's interesting.

However, if you'd told me you'd seen yellow crocodiles in a cave system? Well, that's not completely silly. I'll take a look. Got a decent picture?
I tend to agree with this review. Most Fortean phenomena remain w/o plausible - scientific evidences even after much time, investigation and science.
My personal favorite: newly discovered large animals - cyrtid's does remain open. Examples: the bili Ape, the kabomani tapir and the bigfin squid (to name a few) have all been discovered in the last couple of decades. Interestingly they still manage to find a few despite continued deforestation, poaching, pollution and human encroachment. As for living dinosaurs, bigfoot, mammoths, etc. I don't hold my breath. However an oversized constrictor or monitor or great ape?
Another Fortean area that is in a constant state of flux - discovery is archeology. With the sphinx now thought to be > 10 thousand years old and Gobekli Tepe at 12 thousand years old, new evidences will likely continue to surprise.
Supernatural phenomena have proven particularly difficult to prove. I lump religion, ghost, spirits, the occult, devils, telekinesis all into this category. There's a large group of people that will swear to have had personal experiences with such phenomena. To many of them (aside from hucksters and sensationalist) their experiences are - were real. But what can they bring to the table as far as proof? However perhaps a few have had experiences beyond our current understanding.
 
To many of them (aside from hucksters and sensationalist) their experiences are - were real.
Thing is, they are real to the genuine witness. This issue is the source of much conflict*. Most of us are brought up to believe we have tape/video recorder like senses and perfect recall, if we have recall at all. Someone who sees a ghost (as an example) not only does see it, they remember it as having been seen and may in fact strengthen the memory of the 'ghost' with each successive re-consolidation of the memory.

To confront the possibility that, despite a sincere and perfectly recalled memory, the 'event' is a figment of one's own cognitive processes in conjunction with biases and beliefs, is an undermining of one's own self-identity and that is always received with some negativity.

Even if a camera were to have been pointed at the same spot at the same time and captured a wisp of mist and nothing more, the witness would start post hoc reasoning for the disparity as that is more comfortable and more certain than the alternative.



* if someone is hearing voices, there's little to be gained initially by telling them they are mistaken, they are real to the person hearing them. That doesn't mean they're actual other beings whispering in the patients ear of course. Or harmless come to that.
 
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First-ever Smoky Mountain Big Foot Conference set for July

GATLINBURG, Tenn. (WATE) - The first-ever Smoky Mountain Bigfoot Conference set for later this year.

Several speakers all under one roof will talk all things Bigfoot. The event is headlined by Cliff Barackman from the Animal Planet show 'Finding Bigfoot'.

The event will be Saturday, July 27 from 9 a.m. until 5 p.m. at the Gatlinburg Convention Center.


Tickets start at $25 dollars.

Visit gatherupevents.com/smoky-mountain-bigfoot-conference for more information.

https://www.wjhl.com/top-news/regio...rce=facebook_WJHL&fbclid=IwAR3aI0nqZzScWE27Jc
 
Western Pennsylvania has several Bigfoot events. It is a culturally “Trumpian” place outside of Pittsburgh, so it is unsurprising that the Bigfoot Research Project there sees no issue mixing UFOs in with Bigfoot and inviting outwardly racist John Ventre of MUFON. This is why cryptozoology can’t have nice things. https://www.heraldstandard.com/new_...cle_95f12aae-392b-11e9-b189-a754c07c2dba.html

We're interested in Bigfoot, but not "Trumpian" labels.

Links between racism and Fortean pursuits could well be interesting, but we needn't tie them to the current resident of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

It will only provoke a non-Fortean argument when one of 63,000,000 Americans posts here to tell you that you're wrong.
 
We're interested in Bigfoot, but not "Trumpian" labels.

Links between racism and Fortean pursuits could well be interesting, but we needn't tie them to the current resident of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

It will only provoke a non-Fortean argument when one of 63,000,000 Americans posts here to tell you that you're wrong.

It's important to pay attention to the cultural and social aspects of paranormal beliefs. One misses the big picture if the reasons for involvement and the motivation for belief is ignored and we can certainly tie in the current anti-authority wave in American society to politics and fringe beliefs, epitomized by the conspiracy-commander in chief.

In this case, it is important to note not only the divide between biological Bigfoot and the paranormal view, but to recognize that the UFO community in the US has a distinct thread of white supremacy. Since this is a BIgfoot in North America thread, I felt it appropriate to comment on the American Bigfoot scene which has some scary undertones that prevent me from taking part in their outreach events. Note that I am only speaking from the American POV but it's not an uninformed one.

That said, if these aspects are not welcome over the phenomenology, I will refrain from pointing those out. Dog knows I would not want to waste my time arguing politics.
 
It's important to pay attention to the cultural and social aspects of paranormal beliefs. One misses the big picture if the reasons for involvement and the motivation for belief is ignored and we can certainly tie in the current anti-authority wave in American society to politics and fringe beliefs, epitomized by the conspiracy-commander in chief.

In this case, it is important to note not only the divide between biological Bigfoot and the paranormal view, but to recognize that the UFO community in the US has a distinct thread of white supremacy. Since this is a BIgfoot in North America thread, I felt it appropriate to comment on the American Bigfoot scene which has some scary undertones that prevent me from taking part in their outreach events. Note that I am only speaking from the American POV but it's not an uninformed one.

That said, if these aspects are not welcome over the phenomenology, I will refrain from pointing those out. Dog knows I would not want to waste my time arguing politics.

All that is genuinely welcome and interesting, but we know from bitter experience here that it is almost always unproductive to name/include serving politicians.
 
This is an open question to those who support the existence of 'Bigfoot'.
Why after all this time has no one ever found a Bigfoot carcass on a road , in the woods, anywhere, or any specific physical material ?
One would think that even an 'intelligent' animal would have made a mistake or something and we would have found a body by now.

ps: I'm more or less agnostic on the existence of said creature.
 
This is an open question to those who support the existence of 'Bigfoot'.
Why after all this time has no one ever found a Bigfoot carcass on a road , in the woods, anywhere, or any specific physical material ?
One would think that even an 'intelligent' animal would have made a mistake or something and we would have found a body by now. ...

The only roadkill 'Bigfoot' I can recall was the Montana hoaxer who was hit by 2 cars in 2012.

https://www.cnn.com/2012/08/28/us/montana-big-foot-accident/index.html
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...lled-on-montana-highway-idUSBRE87R1B620120828


Then there's the driver who hit a deer in 2017 and claimed the animal had been chased onto the road by a Bigfoot.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/idaho-driver-blames-bigfoot_us_58d887dae4b03787d359ad1b
https://abc13.com/news/woman-claims-bigfoot-caused-her-crash/1819738/


Then there's this November 2018 report from Australia, where a truck driver claimed he barely avoided running over a Yowie on the road.

https://www.singularfortean.com/new...the-worst-thing-that-has-ever-happened-to-him
 
Why after all this time has no one ever found a Bigfoot carcass on a road , in the woods, anywhere...

If they exist, they are rare creatures. I would cite the example of pine martens in the UK: there is a significant population of them, but how many people have ever seen a roadkill pine marten?

Amplifying, animals die in huge numbers every day in the UK, both from RTAs (among other causes), and from old age and disease. Nature’s cleanup crew, however, is extremely efficient.

l recently had to process a deer carcase in the exact location where l had to deal with one only a couple of weeks previously. Had l not known of the recent incident, l would never have known that a large-ish creature had been reduced to kit form there: not a trace remained.

maximus otter
 
But there are pictures of pine martens, I have seen stuffed ones in museums and uncontroversial film of them, how long do we go without any of that before we say bigfoot doesn't exist?
 
I've seen a roadkill pine marten, and a fair way west of where they've been documented.
 
LOL...well Bigfoot ain't humans.

no - but we don't know that retrieving/honouring/etc our dead is a purely human thing either :)

I don't believe in Bigfoot but I WANT to believe! :bf:
 
We do have various sightings of chimps and whales continuing to care (bring food to, groom etc) for dead newborns until the parent gives up.
 
Just for a bit of fun, you can now buy a 'Patty' (sort of) action figure

abigfoot.jpg


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Big-Foot-S...006291?hash=item21474ad113:g:RwIAAOSwDyxbkgJo
 
Not sure if it was Keel who first proposed that Bigfoot could be a inter-dimensional creature that only occasionally moves through our time-space. Since the nature of a multiverse is unknown, one could speculate that, when a Bigfoot dies, it reverts back to its native dimension, thus leaving no trace in our reality.
 
Not sure if it was Keel who first proposed that Bigfoot could be a inter-dimensional creature that only occasionally moves through our time-space. Since the nature of a multiverse is unknown, one could speculate that, when a Bigfoot dies, it reverts back to its native dimension, thus leaving no trace in our reality.
That kind of sounds like the plot of the Long Earth series.
 
Bigfoot in Quebec or Yeti in Russia supposedly ripping up trees in the distance. You can't really see the creature. There are conflicting versions on the net. One says it's a Russian Bigfoot. Comments on one of the videos showing this says it's filmed in Quebec because they can recognize the native american language, which might be right since there is some English spoken in there as well.

 
There are rare claims of relic hominins killing people. I wrote an article on it once. Some of the stories in the Missing 411 books are spookily suggestive. I'm doubtful of most conspiracies (though i do think there is and was a UK cover up of tory mps buggering and killing kids) the 411 stuff gives me pause for thought. Anonymous stories are never much use as evidence but i present this for you perusal.
 
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