Billy Meier

A

Anonymous

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And there you have it, the conclusively non-responsive, flatulent substitue for thinking, for confronting irrefutable proof.

Swiss military, nah, doesn't count. Jupiter info 5 months before discovery, can't be.
120+ wintesses, must all be liars.
Six categories of still irreproducible physical evidence, anyone coulda done it.
Volumes of prophetically accurate PUBLISHED info, lucky guesser.

Typical avoidance, attempts to raise the bar (with no idea just how far the info can "jump"), intellectually DISHONEST nonsense. But nothing new.

I returned here because a friend chided me for having lost patience with just this kind of nonsense before. I'm glad I peeked in simply to see that this is the nature of the beast. Not scientific, not based on logic, reasoning, thoughtfulness, probing, evidence, etc.

And that's fine, but do you have any idea how ridiculous you make yourselves look, and how your nonsense is put to shame by a man who has only needed one hand to do so?
 

Jerry_B

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Michael812 said:
And there you have it, the conclusively non-responsive, flatulent substitue for thinking, for confronting irrefutable proof.
Hmm - well, the 'proof' you mentioned WRT radar 'unknowns' is not actually proof of anything that validates your particular outlook. As I've said, it's a big leap to make it out as such.

Can we also take the dinosaur photos as evidence of anything...? Surely they were proof too?
 
A

Anonymous

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So what we'll do, and this should be fun for such an erudite crowd, is you distinguished gents (and the one lady) will place into evidence sufficient specific examples of your own prophetic information (you know, the "anybody could have said that stuff"), sufficient meaning that you can use as your reference point the number and specific nature of the items in Proof Beyond A Reasonable Doubt, i.e. details regarding forthcoming volcanic eruptions, earthquakes, scientific discoveries, etc.

I especially am looking forward to the kind of info that compares with Meier's Jupiter, Venus and Saturn info, his ten specific predicitions and, since you've behaved in rather bad taste about it, get me a couple of hundred of UFO sightings confirmed by your military as occurring above your houses while you're also duplicating Meier's shamelessly easy photos, films and video. Since we know at least one of you is working hard with his Strat to configure the UFO sounds, let's have them ready at the same time too.

When you do get the military to confirm that somethiing more than hot air was hovering above, and issuing from, your heads, make sure that you all take and pass lie detector tests affirming the truthfulness of, well, in this case, of whatever you think you can actually tell the truth about.

Now the ball is, as we say in the states, in your court. No more brilliant patter from y'all, let's get to work! Perhaps you'll meet each other for the first time and have a few pints while you knock the whole thing off.

And take your time, I'll be back in a few weeks to marvel at how well you put your money where your various orifices are.

Best to ya, now, and on with the show!
 
A

Anonymous

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rynner said:
Contact 150, 10 Oct. 1981, Meier publishes information about planetary system with 3 suns and 16 planets.
When and where was this published? What exactly was the information?
"Three suns" is pretty interesting, but we need details, not generalisations.
Was this a 'prophecy' of this particular discovery, or of another one that might be made in a few years time? (In which case, you might have jumped the gun!)
Would have been nice if there were some coordinates (RA, etc...) as well. :)
 
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Michael812 said:
Should the discussion still be ongoing regarding the authenticity of the Meier case, this should be sufficient to resolve the issue (for reasoning, logical and open minds):

1998: Swiss Military Airspace Safety Monitoring Unit informed Swiss ufologist Luc Bürgin and the MUFON-CES research group about recorded data pertaining to radar sightings of unknown flying objects in the Swiss air space. According to their information, 236 UFO radar sightings took place in the airspace above the land of the Swiss confederates between the 25-month period from April 1, 1993 to April 31, 1995. Particularly noteworthy were the clusters of UFO radar positions above the Zurich highlands—precisely in the area where Billy Meier has his contacts.
Is this the same claim you made earlier? You are telling us that someone has told you that someone else has told them that this data exists.

You'd need direct access to the data, you'd need to see what geographcal distribution was of these and the number of incidents of unknown reports in other areas. You'd alos need to run some stats to assess the likelihood of this occuring at any random point.

Your claim is meaningless otherwise.
 

mothman8

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I have read a lot of this thread with much enjoyment. I have looked at the pictures on miers web site, some of the videos as well, and to me they look fake. Its sad when someone has been sucked into a con. Stuff like ' I won't defend those pictures that look dodgy ' is sick. Charles Fort was against this sort of thing, disregarding data that didn't fit with someones ideas. If Fort were around today he would scoff at you. those space photos are just copies of those from ground based observatories ( and not very good copies at that ). I find it staggeringly hard to beleive that so-called intelligent races have tried to warn people of the earth about forthcomeing disasters by only telling one man and hoping that will be sufficient. Dont you think they would contact those with the most to lose from each of the so-called forseen events. All this stuff about militaries contacting folk with details about radar sightings is just unsubstansiated nonsence. You really are the worlds bigest NIT, yes I say a silly nit. Also, I read the article ( in FT ) about how to reproduce some of those Mier photos and to me the author of the article has done this, they look the same to me, so claims of them being unfakable is crap. I dont think even Mier himself telling you they were faked would convince you otherwise.
 

painy2

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Michael812 said:
My, my, the ignorant must have their day. Ahem, mere inches from my hands sit a number books, copyrighted books, published books, containing specific information that was not "officially" (or unofficially) discovered until well after the events occurred, after the dates of copyright, which were themselves after the dates of first publication.

That's called proof positive, especially when it's as abundant, varied and error free as it is.
Just because he wrote it down before it was made official, that doesnt mean people didnt know about it, lets look at a few examples:

Area 51 - Not official, but people know it exist's

Aliens - Records of ancient drawings go back 1000's of years, no official confirmation but people still suspect they exist's

9/11 and 7/7 - it was always a case of when not if

Saddams weapons of mass destruction - We were told before hand that none would be found, officially none were found

Mount St Helen's - people knew it would blow, but not when

Universe - This body is infinate, any possiblity is possible and probable, I can say now that there is a system that has 5 suns and 7 planets, that sit very near to a blackhole and will in time be swallowed therefore sealing the blackhole. One day scientists will find a system like that, and the Michael812 of that time will look back in amazment at my prophetic abilities and then read into my other mindless rantings and concoct any solution they see fit to make themselves feel better.

My predictons for sometime in the future:

There will be a solar event of catastrophic proportions.

Scientists will find the cure for cancer comes from the common door mouse.

Volcanoes will erupt, rivers and sea's will flood the earth, hurricanes will get stronger and more violent, and they will be more frequent.

A new eipdemic unlike nothing ever seen will ravage mankind, the source will be found in Mcdonalds nuggets.

A prominent World leader will be assassinated.

The west will come under frequent attacks from millitants, possibly from Asia or Africa.

Michael Horn will realise anyone can make predicitions and be more then 50% accurate.
 

vogel7fire

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TerraX predicted that some people would start to question my loyalties, and they did.

Well, I'm glad to see that this discussion is going forward? I need to spend some time reviewing the posts before our brief hiatus, but as I recall we were back on the metal alloy track. I'm stilll interested in drafting a pleading to FIGU Switzerland for another sample to be tested along the lines of acceptable scientific protocol.
 

AMPHIARAUS

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[ ] Any real discussion happening
[ ] Anything to learn (with the exception of the extent of some peoples cognitive dissonance)
[ ] Time available to keep countering gibberish with fact
[X] Put on ignore and get back a few minutes of wasted time
 

vogel7fire

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Amphiaraus wrote:
[X] Put on ignore and get back a few minutes of wasted time
Quite honestly, I thought the time had come, especially given the events in London, to discontinue this thread entirely. I couldn't imagine Billy Meier even being on anyone's back burner, mine included.

If anyone, however, wants to pursue a request for a metal sample -- that "unobtanium" evidence we'd like to see -- please indicate so.
 

rynner2

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I did put this thread on Ignore...

..but then I idly looked in and replied on it, and got caught up in the whole ghastly mess again!


Aaargh! I've just done it again! :shock:
 

vogel7fire

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Well, Emps, it looks like we're an army of two at the moment.

I've decided to call the request a "proposal," instead of a pleading, brief, memo, etc. -- something that should be laid out in a very organized fashion with clear, convincing, cogent arguments to back it up, and with potential solutions for testing (specific labs, scientists, chain of evidence protocol), and ultimately to include the suggestion of communicating the results (assuming they are proof of that elusive "unobtanium")by way of a scientific paper or in the media --you suggested the DiscoveryChannel awhile ago, as an example.

I already mentioned that there are some very capable writers here, some such as yourself with scientific background. I don't know how you might want to go about this, and perhaps now we begin to brainstorm. Off the top of my head, is it possible to generate a "proposal" from the Fortean offices in London? Personally, I think that would add extra weight and credence to the whole effort, especially if you were to coordinate with the media. Michael Horn is the Authorized Media Representative in America, not England, and so far he has expressed no desire to pursue this route even though he says other samples are available.

I have located contacts for FIGU headquarters in Switzerland, so we do have a contact person, phone, fax, e-mail, and address information. Of course, any and all of this enterprise would have to be carefully coordinated with FIGU.

Since we were last here, I am more convinced than ever that we are on the right track. I have been to various websites, other forums and blogs, and one thing keeps coming up with predictable consistency: the metal alloy is the key.

Even Meier supporters have admitted that the Meier case is an embarrassment in the UFO community. If FIGU could be convinced that another testing were to prove the authenticity of alien presence and bolster Billy's case, I find it hard to believe that they would want to ignore the challenge and decline the prospect of greater credibility.
 

rynner2

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vogel7fire said:
I have been to various websites, other forums and blogs, and one thing keeps coming up with predictable consistency: the metal alloy is the key.
The Holy Grail, so to speak.

But, like the HG, exceedingly elusive and changeable.


It seems to me that if someone had samples of this alien alloy, they would be pushing like mad to get it analysed, and in the glaring light of the world media.

But the current situation seems to be that some people may have samples, but they are extremely reluctant to admit to it, or offer them up for analysis.

I doubt an appeal on behalf of FT would produce results. If these people wanted this stuff in the public domain, they wouldn't sit around waiting for some special-interest group to come pleading for it.

Which is why I don't think the evidence now exists at all (even if it once did).
 
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vogel7fire: Thats all fine and dandy and I'd be happy to help draw up a proposal (I've done them before for projects and funding applicaitons, etc.) but the bottom line is:

Is there any metal?

Its a simple question and one that should be easy enough to answer.

There is no point going to the time and effort of writing a proposal if there is no metal to be studied. To get a solid proposal together would involve getting a number of people involved and to agree to clearing time, finding funds, arranging film crews, etc. but before they even get involved they'll ask that one fundamental question.

If you can ascertian that the metal exists but they are umming and ahhing over testing then we can thrash something out and see if we can't negotiate something that is acceptable to both Believer and Skeptic.

If it would be helpful we could work up a kind of pre-proposal that would outline the next steps if there were any samples. However, this should have no real bearing on the question - there is either some space metal or there isn't. That said a pre-proposal (just a couple of paragraphs) might help sway them on getting back to you.
 

vogel7fire

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Emperor wrote:
If it would be helpful we could work up a kind of pre-proposal that would outline the next steps if there were any samples. However, this should have no real bearing on the question - there is either some space metal or there isn't. That said a pre-proposal (just a couple of paragraphs) might help sway them on getting back to you.
Okay, good. Are you suggesting you first want official word (in writing) from FIGU that samples do exist? Or, do you take Michael Horn's word that they do exist?

Yes, a short pre-proposal makes perfect sense logistically. I figured that could first be a simple e-mail or fax. A final proposal should, I assume, be a facsimile.

If you're offering to author an e-mail, a pre-proposal, and/or a proposal, please be my guest! I'll be glad to offer any input I can. The FIGU Switzerland contact person is Christian Frehner. His e-mail is [email protected].. The address is:

Semjase Silver Star Center
CH-8495 Schmidruti/ZH
Switzerland
(Phone) +52 385 1310 = 011 41 52 385 1310
(FAX) +52 385 4289 = 011 41 52 385 4289
 
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vogel7fire said:
Emperor wrote:
If it would be helpful we could work up a kind of pre-proposal that would outline the next steps if there were any samples. However, this should have no real bearing on the question - there is either some space metal or there isn't. That said a pre-proposal (just a couple of paragraphs) might help sway them on getting back to you.
Okay, good. Are you suggesting you first want official word (in writing) from FIGU that samples do exist? Or, do you take Michael Horn's word that they do exist?
Well obviously the more official the better because to draw up a proposal things would have to be pretty solid. Not that Michael Horn's word isn't good enough but if we could get both that would be better.

I'd be happy to draw up a couple of paragraphs (in the next day or so) - I'll post them here and we can fine tune them and make an official approach.
 

vogel7fire

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It wouldn't hurt -- and it might help -- to tell them that it is your understanding from Michael Horn, the Authorized American Media Representative of the Billy Meier case, that other samples exist, etc. etc. etc.

I'll look forward to your draft, and go from there. Thanks so much for doing this. It could turn out to be very exciting, but I must caution you (and myself) to be prepared for a real disappointment.
 
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vogel7fire said:
I'll look forward to your draft, and go from there. Thanks so much for doing this. It could turn out to be very exciting, but I must caution you (and myself) to be prepared for a real disappointment.
I'm not getting my hopes up but you don't know until you try.
 

mothman8

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Can't wait for this to happen. Nice to see folk on the board actually take an active role in a long standing case. I never thought anyone would be bothered enough. Imagine the picture on Micheal Horns face if we get a message back denouncing him as a liar or something, because thats what im expecting. I had a good look at Billy Miers official web site yesterday. And from what I can gather he don't like no-one else having a say in anyhting really.
 

vogel7fire

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I'm observing another forum currently in progress. Here's what one poster has to say:
The metal sample has been "lost" or "stolen" like all the negatives, and original prints. If these original researchers were so on top of their game, these originals would have been like gold...*no way* would anyone in the gravity of such as case be so careless as to lose such data. I dont buy it for a second. It's claimed that there are more metal samples...but they have been not been forthcoming.

My opinion? Anyone with a nominal level of optics knowledge can figure out the photos with Photoshop and basic data of the camera Meier used (if that data is even true).

But dont ever expect to get copies of original negatives, nor pictures. Horn can make excuse after excuse, but with the claims he touts of this case, that information should be available. Thats it. Period. But it isnt.
 

vogel7fire

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rynner wrote:
But the current situation seems to be that some people may have samples, but they are extremely reluctant to admit to it, or offer them up for analysis . . . Which is why I don't think the evidence now exists at all (even if it once did).
The reason FIGU (or Billy) could be reluctant to offer another sample is because the first one got misplaced, lost, dematerialized, whatever. It just no longer exists. Billy, I'm told, was very unhappy about this. Now, if his Plejaren friends "took it back" I would think they would have told Billy this, but I've never heard any confirmation of that.

But did the evidence exist in the first place? There are enough witnesses to confirm the existence of some kind of metal sample, and I can certainly speak posthumously for Marcel Vogel, the man who examined the metal sample, and who told me of how the sample suddenly vanished while it was on his person. Then, there is Rumi Da who is carrying on Marcel's work who has told us of Marcel's involvement with the metal samples.

But was the sample really evidence of an alien alloy? I think rynner will ask that. The only way that I personally can answer that is to say that Marcel told me it was, I believed him, and this was long before this case turned into such a mess. I guess you could say, "those were the virginal years" before everything got all "f**ked up!" ;)
 

vogel7fire

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Do my eyes deceive me?
vogel7fire rubs her eyes
Could this be an illusion?
vogel7fire rubs her eyes again!
By jove! This board is really up and working :D
 

vogel7fire

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Emps,

FYI...It has come to my attention that the producers of Wag TV in England have visited Billy Meier in Switzerland for a documentary they are doing for the Discovery channel. It's on MH's website under "photographs."

Michael hasn't yet heard back from them, so he doesn't know the status of the project.

Any possibility you'd be interested in contacting them?
 
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vogel7fire said:
Emps,

FYI...It has come to my attention that the producers of Wag TV in England have visited Billy Meier in Switzerland for a documentary they are doing for the Discovery channel. It's on MH's website under "photographs."

Michael hasn't yet heard back from them, so he doesn't know the status of the project.

Any possibility you'd be interested in contacting them?
OK I'll drop them a line. I can't find anythng about it on MH's site though - got a direct link?

DarthNamztir: Welcome - I look forward to hearing more about your work on the photos.
 
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