Billy Meier

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vogel7fire said:
Emps,
Michael mentions the TV crew in his June newsletter and apparently took three photos of them with Billy when he last visited Switzerland:
http://www.theyfly.com/newsletters/june_newsletter/photos_billy.htm

Are you going to post your "pre-proposal" to FIGU soon?
Thanks for the link.

I'm going to post it here first and if no one has anything to add I'll send it to all interested parties.
 
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Somewhere along the lines of the proposal for metal sample requests, I've wanted to for quite some time to try and track down original photographic and or film material as well, or at least some that would be worthy enough in quality for serious study.

I have been told in the past few days that Lee Elders does have first generation copies (meaning off original negatives), and that Wendelle Stevens might also have some original material.

Getting even good copies of such materials would of course be the issue. If they do in fact exist, and the subject matter is as iron clad as has been previously stated, then there should be no hesitation to provide a copy at least, from original print negatives or negatives themselves. Should the parties holding such data be willing, I'd certainly be willing to provide all my qualifications as well as contact information and equipment specs. This would of course be pro bono work, and I would provide anyone with a detailed report who came to me with original Meier footage, which includes large scale prints, overlay large scale prints, and a CD of high resolution scans and overlay scans detailing the work done.

This imaging field has come a long way since the original "analysis", and there are many unanswered questions, and certainly enough to warrent a re-opening of at least "whats left" of original data.

Perhaps a request draft could be done that also addresses this issue, and submit it to Mr. Stevens, and Mr. Elders. I'll try and work up a protocol as time permits.
 
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DarthNamztir said:
Somewhere along the lines of the proposal for metal sample requests, I've wanted to for quite some time to try and track down original photographic and or film material as well, or at least some that would be worthy enough in quality for serious study.

.......

Perhaps a request draft could be done that also addresses this issue, and submit it to Mr. Stevens, and Mr. Elders. I'll try and work up a protocol as time permits.
Yeah I have thought about this since you mentioned it. It seems like a pre-proposal sounds like an idea here too - to see if the material exists and if those involved would be provisionally interested in taking it onto the next stage.

It'd probably also make sense to keep them separate so if one doesn't pan out the other's chances of success aren't reduced. However, they could clearly bedrawn together at a later date if they both pan out.
 

vogel7fire

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Emps,

Do you have any way of waking up some of the other members who might be interested in what's going on now? I noticed that the other forum "London Bombings: Speculation/Forum" is sound asleep. (Actually, that might be a good thing!)
 
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vogel7fire said:
Emps,

Do you have any way of waking up some of the other members who might be interested in what's going on now? I noticed that the other forum "London Bombings: Speculation/Forum" is sound asleep. (Actually, that might be a good thing!)
Waking them up?

Not really they'll post when they post.
 

vogel7fire

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What I meant, Emps, was I wasn't sure how many people realized that any of the FT forums were up and running again -- the only way I found out was through the editorial staff, then you, then. . . here we are. I've e-mailed some people just to let them know that the board is "awake" again :yeay:
 
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vogel7fire said:
What I meant, Emps, was I wasn't sure how many people realized that any of the FT forums were up and running again -- the only way I found out was through the editorial staff, then you, then. . . here we are. I've e-mailed some people just to let them know that the board is "awake" again :yeay:
Ahhhhh right - well there you are then!!
 
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Mighty_Emperor said:
DarthNamztir said:
Somewhere along the lines of the proposal for metal sample requests, I've wanted to for quite some time to try and track down original photographic and or film material as well, or at least some that would be worthy enough in quality for serious study.

.......

Perhaps a request draft could be done that also addresses this issue, and submit it to Mr. Stevens, and Mr. Elders. I'll try and work up a protocol as time permits.
Yeah I have thought about this since you mentioned it. It seems like a pre-proposal sounds like an idea here too - to see if the material exists and if those involved would be provisionally interested in taking it onto the next stage.

It'd probably also make sense to keep them separate so if one doesn't pan out the other's chances of success aren't reduced. However, they could clearly bedrawn together at a later date if they both pan out.

I have to actually wonder something. I'm no authority on law, although I deal with lawyers all the time for work. But, with all the claims made in this case, all the merchandise that is sold, and all the "facts" and representation that goes along with this footage...you have to wonder if anyone has ever tried to have a court order made to have any party involved surrender footage for independant court analysis to substanciate the claims, and therefore legitimize the data being offered for sale publicly.

Although I'd never persue such an act (I believe kindness and sincere desire, coupled with honesty will get you further...then going after anyone with a pitchfork of law..let's face it, it's just nasty) you have to wonder if anyone ever has.
 

vogel7fire

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DarthN - I think what you're talking about is a "subpoena duces tecum" -- (request for documents or other physical evidence). I've done a little bit of law myself, but then I wonder, what would the cause of action be?
Fraudulent business practice? One would have to bring an action against FIGU, which wouldn't be the first time. TerraX can probably tell you the specifics of previous legal cases (such as slander, etc.)

Since you deal with attorneys, why don't you get some idea from them? However, as you say:
Although I'd never persue such an act (I believe kindness and sincere desire, coupled with honesty will get you further...then going after anyone with a pitchfork of law..let's face it, it's just nasty) you have to wonder if anyone ever has.
Yes, something of this sort would be nasty and not the way to go. Let's try diplomacy first!
 

vogel7fire

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Darth N,

Your nemesis (and now mine) on the PAR board will not quit, and so I have suggested that everyone agree 100% with him even if he is 100% wrong. Chances are everyone will agree 100%, so case closed, there at least.

I think it's time, as Emperor suggests, that you talk about your imaging work here.
 
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I'll do just that Vogel, once the DVD comes in.

JD is so completely clueless about imaging and reading any enhancement, that he truly shows how incompetant he and his cohorts there are.

Of course you realize all the personal attacks and innuendos of tampering and being such a uncredible person are due to me hitting on a fact in the case. One that the good Doctor refuses to view with his own eyes.

He of course believes that an emboss filter will make an edge appear out of nowhere, perfectly in scale and scope of the shape of an object. It wont add whats not there...he's yet again in major error. If the object protrusion were flat, and just a shadow of the above emboss...it'd be flat, and if any shape, it'd be a squared off edge...not a eliptical edge in keeping with the disc being in front of the hill.

He's completely clueless.

No matter. He can want my biography as much as he wants...I've posted everything I know to, within my privacy level. When he asked for a picture of me, that was it...he creeped me out permenantly.

Funny how I have been in chats 2 times at 3-4 hours a piece, well past his "dinner time", and he's yet to go face to face...because he knows he cant. He just has very little knowledge of imaging...and I've read his "analysis". It shows.
 

vogel7fire

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So, Emps, waiting with baited breath for the text of your "proposal" and wondering who the "interested parties" are that you have in mind.
 

vogel7fire

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Emps,
I have heard from both TerraX and SkySpirit who say the system does not recognize them, and they cannot log in. Any suggestion for dealing with that?
 

tastyintestines

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Uhh ohh. Horn is going to be on Art Bell, right now. Here's the shows website, if anybody didn't already know. www.coasttocoastam.com


Surprised I didn't hear about this already, or didn't see it, sorry if I'm repeating info.....
 

tastyintestines

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Ahh. just noticed it was a year old interview and I listened to it a year ago.........



(sits in corner, repeating "I am just an amoeba," over and over........) :roll:
 

vogel7fire

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Tony (love your name) and Darth,

Regarding the Art Bell interview, here's the text of an e-mail just posted to another forum (PAR) that I think is timely:

I can't help it. I keep getting drawn back into those Billy
Meier case studies.

Last night on Coast To Coast AM with Art Bell they re-broadcast
an interview Art did with Meier's official U.S. envoy.

Art hit him with the hard-nosed questions without the ridiculous
speculative nonsense of late with questions like "Do aliens
have their own Twilight Zone TV programs?" that interfere with
the data stream.

Art just hit it with real old fashioned newsmanship.

As pressed as Michael Horn, Meier's envoy was, he did flounder a
bit but responded properly when Art put the goods to him.

I've yet to see the 'final final final' photo analysis on the
Meier pics and films and with today's top flight computers and
programs that shouldn't be a problem. Should take all of a few
days to prove whether the objects are real in their space and of
dimensions and weight as suggested by distance etc. Why this
isn't done is beyond me.


It's a simple case of either the pics and vids are real or
they're not. In the meantime there're these 'space brother'
messages that I hate because as far as I'm concerned if there
isn't a messenger to interview, then there ain't no message. We need to put this to rest. Meier's stories and evidence are
proof positive or they're not. To delay is a crime on two
fronts:

Meier is the most unique and priviledge human since Biblical
times or he's the best con man since PT Barnum and then some.


Far too many paranormal mysteries drag on and on with no where
near as much evidence as the Meier people have produced so
what's with the long dragged out revelation?

Meier's team has some awesome evidence. Just awesome and aren't
given their due or don't want their due.

Meier's team has an overwhelming amount of physical evidence and
witnesses. Can't beat them apples!

If you didn't listen to last night's C2C show 8/14/05 then I
would highly suggest doing so.
 

vogel7fire

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In response to the above post, one of Meier's team (Dr. Jim Deardorff) replies:
There's some pretty definitive photo evidence there that doesn't
require the originals to be analyzed to draw firm conclusions.
In the bachtel.htm file, e.g., frames of the video of the
movie-film are examined in which: (a) the UFO or beamship
jumped from one place to another, and the craft shows up in both
places at once in one frame; and (b) seconds later the craft
moved until a small fraction of it was apparently eclipsed
behind the brow of the hill, a very considerable distance away..

In the BillyYes.htm file I've presented the occasion in which
the craft oscillated just above a large tree in the distance (or
above a 3-ft tree some 50-ft away from the camera if a model had
been involved).

In some of these instances it might be argued that it just might
have been a hoax if 2 or 3 hoaxer-collaborators were involved
and other considerations ignored; but no collaborators have been
found after intensive searching in the late '70s and the '80s,
and none have come forward to claim credit and show how they did
it.

The witness testimony is very solid and extensive, along with
attestations by those who know Meier best that he's sincere and
not one who would knowingly deceive. My web pages on that are
at:

www.tjresearch.info/witnessa.htm and
www.tjresearch.info/witness.htm .

The rest of my website is concerned with the document that Billy
and an ex-priest friend were prompted to discover back in 1963
in Jerusalem.
 
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Ya know whats funny Vogel-IF in fact the case is not true, then who is the "Plejaren" holding the ray gun in the pictures?
 

vogel7fire

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A couple of updates.

I have revisited the question of Marcel Vogel's patents in an attempt to verify the actual number, as Amphiaraus attempted to do some time ago.
Two researchers from another forum have been dilgently searching many databases and at this point have confirmed the existence and source of 10 patents. I have re-written RumiDa in hopes that he might have the information available and have also suggested that someone write to Gary Kinder, author of "Light Years" who provided the information that Marcel had 32 patents, which Michael Horn has frequently quoted. In other words, we're working on it.

Secondly, I have just learned that James Gilliland of ECETI was present with Marcel at the time he did the analysis of the metal specimen. James has publicly stated that the alloy was not of earth-origin. You may visit his website at: http://www.eceti.org/index1.html and read his biography at: http://www.eceti.org/bio.htm.

I have taken the liberty to write to Gilliland to ask him for a witness statement of that analysis and/or to invite him to this discussion. The text of my e-mail is as follows:

Hello James,

My name is Linda Williams. I've had some extraordinary association with the
Pleiadeans (Plejarens) since a vision I had in 1971. I met Marcel Vogel in
1980, knew him for 10 years prior to his death, and have just recently learned
that you were present with Marcel when he did his metal analysis.

I am currently involved with a London based group on the Fortean Times Forum
that has focused itself on appealing to FIGU in Switzerland for another metal
specimen to be analyzed, since the one you evidently witnessed
"vanished" (dematerialized, I think). You may want to see some of the
discussion going on at http://www.forteantimes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22353 p
p. 10-24.
I was in hopes that you might be willing to offer your eye-witness testimony to
your observation of the sample that Marcel analyzed. You could do this by
return e-mail or by joining this group, which I think would be extremely
welcomed.

I am going to post an update to the forum stating that I have e-mailed you and
am looking forward to a statement that, with your permission, I can post to the
forum -- unless, as I said, you would prefer to do that yourself. You may also
want to join in the "pre-proposal" phase of our appeal to FIGU. We
will be working on that online at the forum any time soon. The moderator
(Emperor) has offered to write something for us to send.

Your input will be greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,

Linda Williams
vogel7fire
Emps, can you fix the first url for Gilliland? I can't seem to correct it.

[edit: OK done]
 

vogel7fire

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Emps, also just found this about Rob Simone and radio station Resonance104.4fm, "London's Premier Independent Radio Station."

September will be "The Month of Meier"
Rob Is preparing a series of in-depth radio shows exploring the remarkable Meier case in greater detail than anyone ever has before. We will be speaking with the main researchers involved and will be covering areas of Billy's life and contacts never before spoken about.
This extra-ordinary on-going contact case could very well be the most IMPORTANT ever documented.

The information in the contact notes are for the consideration of any who will listen and could impact all of humanity as well as the prophetic aspects which have been on record for over 30 years ! With information from new sources and other material, these series of 2-hour shows will provide the best and most up-to-date look at this case.

Michael Horn will tell us of his recent visit to see Billy and the exciting new pictures !

If you have any information you can give us relating to this case that could assist with this major undertaking, please forward them to Rob Simone:


RobSimonetalks @ yahoo.com
Is this anything you'd be interested in following up on, i.e. "any information you can give us relating to this case . . ." or how about questions, like wouldn't it be important to have another metal sample made available by FIGU Switzerland for an independent analysis?
 

vogel7fire

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Well, as they say, it's best to get it straight from the horse's mouth.
Here's James Gilliland's reply, and I evidently did not have my facts entirely correct but I thought it might nonetheless be of interest here:

Dear Linda. I was with Marcel the day before it was stolen. He said they
went through his security like butter or it could have dematerialized yet
Marcel believed it was stolen. I helped in bringing in information from the
ETS concerning cutting crystals to send the frequencies of a healing herb
through the ethers. I was with Tom Dongo and a woman named Leslie that calls
herself Alia now. He had his heart attack shortly after creating the device.
It is possible his technology may have been stolen to use in a negative
fashion. It is just as easy to send a poison as a benificial herb. I did not
touch or see the specimen but knew his right hand woman Judy Mingo who
informed me about the research on the metal sample. I am not in good
standing with Billy especially Michael Horn which is Billy's representative.
Michael has publicly attacked us on a regular basis and truly believes Billy
is the one true prophet chosen by Spirit form or God and the only contactee.
They attack anyone else vehmently that has had a contact. Despite the fact
that we have over three thousand eyewitnesses, 50 hours of video, stills of
solid craft, giant triangles, cylinders, and ships in every size shape and
color which have appeared on que with previous knowledge Michael still
refuses to use logic or reason. I believe Billy's contacts and pictures were
real but something has gone wrong with the energies, motives and intentions.
Nothing flying there for years yet they continue to promote it as if it is
ongoing attacking crop cirlce researchers, UFO reseachers and all other
contactees. Not becoming of a prophet or a decent human being for that
matter. The evidence greatly outweighs the slanderous remarks made by Billy
and company. You can share this with them. The fact of the matter is we have
the best of the best physicists as eyewitnesses and it is ongoing which is a
real thorn in their side.It is sad we cannot work together but when one
feels they are the one and only the messiah complex does not permit it. Be
well James
 

vogel7fire

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Hi Emps,

I see that you are still busy dealing with registration problems. Have any idea when you will be back here with anything to look at (your draft, I mean)?
 
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vogel7fire said:
Hi Emps,

I see that you are still busy dealing with registration problems. Have any idea when you will be back here with anything to look at (your draft, I mean)?
Nope. All my free time has been hosed away. However, its not like its that much so I'll try and grab some time to polish it up and get it posted but no promises. The world is hardly holding its breath but its been stuck on my to-do list for too long and I could with moving it along ;)
 
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ruffready said:
Billy Meier's is such crap! I can't understand why folks here even give a damn IMHO :D
I suppose my answer would be we give a damn because a lot of other people do which surely makes it worth of further investigation.
 

vogel7fire

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My answer would be the entire world-wide UFO community would like to see the ETs themselves, but short of that, at least some physical evidence -- that "unobtanium" -- that's proof of their existence and of their visitations to planet Earth.
 

mothman8

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I have a few reasons that make me think Billy Miaer is hoaxing is us all.

I have visited his official web site and I didn't like what I read. How come anyone else who claims to be in contact by the plaejarens or whoever they are are attacked by Maier. He is so eager to show that only he can be in contact with them. I find this very dodgy. Why the hell would aliens only contact one man, its just daft. The so called non-fakable photos just look like models to me. The images produced in the Fortean Times article on trying to copy his photos showed they can be faked, they look the same to me. Also, loads of supposed witnesses means nothing to me, remember the Warminster thing, the whole town was involved in that and how many socalled Ufologist were taken in by the case. You can say what you want but I just find the guy ( Miaer ) to be too much of a control freak, too many elements of all this don't make sense. And why do peopl think he coudn't fake pictures because he only has one arm? I have seen many large fine paintings and models made by folk with no arms at all who can use their feet with great dexterity. I also don't beleive he doesn't make any cash out of it either, someone must get the royalties from his ' books '.
 
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