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Bitcoin & Other Cryptocurrencies

Min Bannister said:
I saw this video on Youtube today, posted 6 months ago but it turns out that Bankman fried himself ages ago by openly describing his outfit as a Ponzi scheme. He really just appears utterly clueless about it and seems to think he has instead come up with a brilliant and foolproof plan to generate cash. The video is only 8 minutes long and is funny if you like your humour to be kind of horrifying.

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He actually described it as a Ponzi scheme and yet people still invested?
Wow.
 
It's all in the wording. Coffeezilla recently highlighted the con of Million Coin and pointed out that the scammer avoided using the word 'investment' even when describing the product ... which is obviously an investment!

Thing is, the generation of billionaire crypto-currency wannabes don't actually understand what they are or how a ponzi scheme works. They read "you get in at the top and you make $$$" overrules any other consideration. Especially if they find out they're illegal.

I'm a long time fan, by the way, of Coffeezilla. :D
 
Min Bannister said:
I saw this video on Youtube today, posted 6 months ago but it turns out that Bankman fried himself ages ago by openly describing his outfit as a Ponzi scheme. He really just appears utterly clueless about it and seems to think he has instead come up with a brilliant and foolproof plan to generate cash. The video is only 8 minutes long and is funny if you like your humour to be kind of horrifying.

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He is a really strange looking kid.
 
I've had someone calling me to assure me I've got £2000+ in Bitcoin they'd like to refund to me. Given I've never had anything whatsoever in Bitcoin this is a surprise - and I assume a scam. Has anyone else had similar?
 
Sabresonic said:
He is a really strange looking kid.
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That was part of his appeal, apparently. It's the "young business genius" look. That, and both his parents are financial lawyers.
Him and his ten twenty-something cronies look all the same. They live communally and like to play up to the 'not a stuffy suit' image ... to appeal to other 20-somethings who think they know about crypto trading and want to be billionaires too.
 
Cochise said:
I've had someone calling me to assure me I've got £2000+ in Bitcoin they'd like to refund to me. Given I've never had anything whatsoever in Bitcoin this is a surprise - and I assume a scam. Has anyone else had similar?
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It's just a techno-babble version of "You have £500 bn waiting - just give us £££ in fees to release it."
 
Other crypto businesses are collapsing in the wake of FTX's apparent demise.
BlockFi files for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection

Cryptocurrency lender BlockFi is filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection as the fallout from the collapse of crypto exchange FTX spreads outward.

In a Monday filing for bankruptcy protection in New Jersey, where it is based, BlockFi claimed more than 100,000 creditors, with BlockFi’s liabilities ranging from $1 billion to $10 billion.

BlockFi Inc. said bankruptcy protection will allow it to stabilize the company and restructure. That restructuring will include recovering all obligations that it is owed by its counterparties, including FTX and associated corporate entities. BlockFi said it anticipates recoveries from FTX will be delayed. ...
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FULL STORY: https://apnews.com/article/cryptocurrency-technology-business-249bdc26d94bf9a625c586dae7c27e55
 
I could see it morphing into money for specific companies, which they can use to control their employees. For example Amazon employees getting paid in some cryptocoin, which can only be used to buy things from Amazon or Amazon-approved companies. Good for making sure your employees don't leave.
 
Xanatic* said:
I could see it morphing into money for specific companies, which they can use to control their employees. For example Amazon employees getting paid in some cryptocoin, which can only be used to buy things from Amazon or Amazon-approved companies. Good for making sure your employees don't leave.
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Yes.
And with credit card spends and air miles earning reward points, which are then converted into units of cryptocurrencies to be spent in specific places only.
 
Xanatic* said:
I could see it morphing into money for specific companies, which they can use to control their employees. For example Amazon employees getting paid in some cryptocoin, which can only be used to buy things from Amazon or Amazon-approved companies. Good for making sure your employees don't leave.
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lllegal in the UK since Victorian times under the Truck Acts.

maximus otter
 
Timble2 said:
I wonder if the whole crypto this will turn out to be another dot.com bubble, or the 21st Century's Tulip Mania.
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One You Tube commentor I watch with interest is "Coffeezilla". He's talked about this before. He compared cryptocurrency to the dot com mania, pointing out that the behaviour system is very similar. People bandwagon jumping without actually understanding the mechanics - the "Fear of Missing Out" phenomenon in action. He isn't anti-crypto currency but just exposes and questions some schemes; he has a few investments in some crypto (without pushing these on his channel).
As he puts it, restraint is the biggest asset in investment, not recklessness or daring. Read all the T&C's. Figure out the functionality of what you're putting your money in. At the beginning of the dot com madness, the smart money was on companies that actually had functionality (such as Amazon, Facebook or Google) as opposed to "Ihaveawebsitedotcom" or "dotcomdotcom".
The smart money is from those who can see long-term gains rather than blind gambling. He has advice which coincides with my Dads advice he gave to me: only gamble with money you can afford to lose, even with "sure fire" bets.
 
Hedge funds raise bets against bitcoin miners
Sharp falls in the token’s price and the rising cost of energy prompt managers to short several key players

Hedge funds have been upping their short positions against shares of cryptocurrency miners, betting that more will go to the financial brink after the collapse of the FTX exchange.

With the bitcoin price down by nearly two-thirds this year and the cost of the power that miners require to fuel their energy-intensive computers having risen sharply, hedge funds are wagering that some companies’ business models are still far from viable.

Bearish investors have been betting that the implosion of Sam Bankman-Fried’s FTX will further deepen the malaise for a corner of the crypto market that expanded rapidly last year, often with borrowed money, in the hope of cashing in on high prices of tokens like bitcoin.

https://www.ft.com/content/3af8a398-1767-4439-926f-563819cda07a
 
Oh, this is an evil Twitter account :cool:

1671351564972.png
 
The whole FTX thing I find fascinating.
Of course two of "The Ten" has gone for a plea bargain. They suddenly realised it's not a game and that they could do serious jail time for not being as smart as they thought they were.
It was entertaining to see middle-aged financially-savvy frantically back peddle their plaudits of SBF. This, naturally, is trying to recover some of their reputation now tarnished.
It's also interesting to see grown-ups not question the shenanigans of SBF ... just because he fitted the profile of a financial wunderkind; daring, apparently careless of personal image, sounding confident in his ideas etc. etc.
For one example, he's having an online meeting with potential investors, for millions to come to FTX ... while he's playing League of Legends!
 
Where is the Cryptoqueen?

When a plush London penthouse flat bought by the "missing cryptoqueen" Ruja Ignatova re-appeared on the market, it appeared the fugitive scammer was orchestrating a sale from the shadows.

The same week her £12.5m "ultimate penthouse" was listed for sale, new UK transparency rules meant Ms Ignatova was also publicly revealed as the owner.

But the OneCoin fake cryptocurrency founder hasn't been seen for five years and currently sits on the FBI's 10 most-wanted list.

The BBC previously revealed how she secretly bought the four-bedroom penthouse, said to have once been stuffed full of expensive artwork and designer clothes, after financial regulators in at least one European country had already issued a warning about her fake cryptocurrency.
Ms Ignatova, a 42-year-old Bulgaria-born German national, disappeared on 25 October 2017 after being tipped-off about intensifying police investigations into her Sofia-based scam.

OneCoin, created in 2014, is one of the biggest known of such scams, with the FBI estimating its value at $4bn (£3.2bn).

In the UK alone, the BBC estimates that investors lost more than £100m.

Layla Begum, from Bow, east London, says her family lost more than £54,000 in OneCoin when she was persuaded to invest by a family friend.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-64407723
 
ramonmercado said:
Where is the Cryptoqueen?

When a plush London penthouse flat bought by the "missing cryptoqueen" Ruja Ignatova re-appeared on the market, it appeared the fugitive scammer was orchestrating a sale from the shadows.

The same week her £12.5m "ultimate penthouse" was listed for sale, new UK transparency rules meant Ms Ignatova was also publicly revealed as the owner.

But the OneCoin fake cryptocurrency founder hasn't been seen for five years and currently sits on the FBI's 10 most-wanted list.

The BBC previously revealed how she secretly bought the four-bedroom penthouse, said to have once been stuffed full of expensive artwork and designer clothes, after financial regulators in at least one European country had already issued a warning about her fake cryptocurrency.
Ms Ignatova, a 42-year-old Bulgaria-born German national, disappeared on 25 October 2017 after being tipped-off about intensifying police investigations into her Sofia-based scam.

OneCoin, created in 2014, is one of the biggest known of such scams, with the FBI estimating its value at $4bn (£3.2bn).

In the UK alone, the BBC estimates that investors lost more than £100m.

Layla Begum, from Bow, east London, says her family lost more than £54,000 in OneCoin when she was persuaded to invest by a family friend.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-64407723
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Just for clarification, it’s not her who’s selling but German prosecutors who are forcing the sale in an attempt to recoup some money for people who’ve fallen for her scam.

The Beeb have an audio series about her:

The Missing Cryptoqueen

Jamie Bartlett presents a story of greed, deceit and herd madness.
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I was under the impression that her brother tried explaining that her firm was safe and that she went into hiding because of threats to her life from "The Establishment".
Until he got arrested.
 
Stormkhan said:
The whole FTX thing I find fascinating.
Of course two of "The Ten" has gone for a plea bargain. They suddenly realised it's not a game and that they could do serious jail time for not being as smart as they thought they were.
It was entertaining to see middle-aged financially-savvy frantically back peddle their plaudits of SBF. This, naturally, is trying to recover some of their reputation now tarnished.
It's also interesting to see grown-ups not question the shenanigans of SBF ... just because he fitted the profile of a financial wunderkind; daring, apparently careless of personal image, sounding confident in his ideas etc. etc.
For one example, he's having an online meeting with potential investors, for millions to come to FTX ... while he's playing League of Legends!
Click to expand...
you know, after having had another month to ponder things.... I suspect that there will be no justice here.

I suspect that this fiasco has already passed into the domain of "the govt will tell us what they want us to know"..... and nothing else. And a whole lot of people will just quietly pretend they'd never heard of the guy. the scary part is just how much money got shifted around, and how we'll probably never untangle that knot. some people think there was massive money laundering... how would we even figure it out?

This part makes perfect sense though:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605773478749081600
Why? because a lot of actual "securities"... are really just IOU notes with fancy letterhead, and legal wording.
 
This is the big trouble - and big selling-point - with crypto-currency; no legislation and no real oversight.
Imagine going to a bank and asking for a huge loan.
"What collateral do you have?"
"Well, there's this million-dollar investment I have in ABC Inc."
"And who owns ABC Inc.?"
"I do."
 
Berkshire Hathaway's Charlie Munger Calls for Crypto Ban in the US
The veteran investor doubled down on his bitcoin skepticism, comparing it to gambling contracts.

Berkshire Hathaway (BRK) Vice Chairman and staunch bitcoin skeptic Charlie Munger has called for the United States to follow in the footsteps of China and ban cryptocurrencies.
In an opinion piece in the Wall Street Journal, Munger attributed the rise of cryptocurrencies to a gap in regulation as crypto assets aren't currencies, commodities or securities.
"Instead, it’s a gambling contract with a nearly 100% edge for the house, entered into in a country where gambling contracts are traditionally regulated only by states that compete in laxity," Munger wrote. "The U.S. should now enact a new federal law that prevents this from happening."
In 2021, Munger labeled bitcoin's (BTC) relative success, at the time as "disgusting" after alluding to how it is used by kidnappers and extortionists. A year later, the 99-year-old called bitcoin an "investment in nothing" as he doubled down on his skeptical stance.
This isn't the first time Munger or Berkshire Hathaway Chairman Warren Buffett, also known as the "Oracle of Omaha," have gone after crypto with Munger even going as far to say that he wished crypto had “never been invented."

https://www.coindesk.com/business/2..._main&utm_medium=social&utm_content=editorial
 

Luxury rehab centres now offer therapy for 'crypto addiction'​


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-64245669
-------------------------------------
Don, for example, sought options for treatment when his girlfriend broke up with him after she realised the extensive losses he had racked up during the crypto downturn in 2022.
Jane, a 32-year-old Londoner whose name has been changed on request, said she would go on "trading benders" that lasted three to four days, which convinced her partner that she was having an affair.
 
A TV story said that the Bank of England will soon have a digital money option like found in the colonies such as Nigeria, the Bahamas, and Jamaica.

All I can see is cyberattacks where people lose everything.

Would you want digital money ?
 
charliebrown said:
A TV story said that the Bank of England will soon have a digital money option like found in the colonies such as Nigeria, the Bahamas, and Jamaica.

All I can see is cyberattacks where people lose everything.

Would you want digital money ?
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heh, it's the old convenience vs security thing. numbers in a computer are very convenient... for certain kinds of business.
 
Me? I'm no technophobe and appreciate digital banking, with all it's hazards and flaws but also it's benefits.
However, I distrust digital money. Perhaps because I've only a rudimentary grasp on the concept, but largely because of all those early investors becoming multimillionaires almost overnight.
It's almost as if they haven't got real money but have created their own on the blockchain; in effect they still rely on real, actual currency to give their crypto value. For me, I don't distrust the banking industry enough to regard being 'unregulated' as a good thing. Complex financial regulations are there to counter crooks - successful in doing so or not.
We now see people demanding money for NFT's - which can be copied and disputed over ownership and is 'valued' by the seller - and these images are only links to a single number on a blockchain. Just because something is unique, doesn't mean it has value.
 
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