Spookdaddy
Cuckoo
- Joined
- May 24, 2006
- Messages
- 7,901
- Location
- Midwich
A noose knot - with 8, 9 or 13 turns (depending on which tradition you hold to) - is a very particular thing; a specific traditional design for the specific purpose of killing people, beyond which it has little practical value. Granted, the extra turns ensure the knot will not 'let go', but the number involved in a traditional noose is technically superfluous; any properly tied slip knot could be used to strangle someone under their own weight, and I can only assume that the several turns involved are symbolic (nine lives, unlucky thirteen...not sure about the eight*), or are maybe a practical process involved in ensuring the knot will stand firmly behind and below the left ear, in the traditional manner.
A fixed loop is not the same as a slip knot. A noose is a slip knot. Fixed loops and slip knots are not at all designed for the same purposes and are not interchangeable - suggesting loops might be taken for nooses just shows technical ignorance, whichever side of the argument it comes from.
That said, it's impossible to tell from the garage photo whether the knot in question is actually a noose. The relatively long thicker section above the loop certainly gives the appearance of one - but, although I might place a modest bet on it, I maybe wouldn't swear to it in a court of law.
However - speaking theoretically - if I were to walk into a garage and see an actual noose hanging by a door then I really would assume that some form of offensive symbolism was involved. A proper noose knot is more difficult to tie than much more practical alternatives, it uses more line than is necessary, and - probably most importantly - it will automatically close up around the fingers of anyone pulling on the loop, quite severely so if used to lift anything of any weight. As a supposed 'garage door pull' such a thing would be not only be ridiculously over complex for the job in hand, but really quite painful to use. (I would also add that what I see is a rope with some form of loop on it hanging by a door; the garage door pull thing is just as much an assumption as anything else - in my experience with sizeable industrial unit doors like this one they tend to be continuous loops, and formed of chain, rather than rope.)
I doubt the symbolism of a noose knot has the impact anywhere else in the world that it does in the southern states of the US, and in any situation beyond hanging a man, a properly tied noose knot is technically pointless - therefore, if you do come across one, it's perfectly valid to ask what the point actually is.
*In my time I've been a climber, a hemp house flyman and a rigger - and have had to learn a lot of rope work along the way. I own the bible of knots (yes, there is one - and it is about the size of a substantial religious epic), Clifford W Ashley's, The Ashley Book of Knots. Ashley mentions the traditions of nine and thirteen in regard to the number of turns on a noose, but states that he learned the knot using eight turns. There is a lot of symbolism in traditional knot work - and I wonder if eight turns actually could refer to nine lives, the ninth being the one temporarily contained within the loop.
Incidentally I’m pretty sure that noose knots of this type were not employed in England for an awful long time, if they ever were. The English method - at least from the early 1800's - seems to have relied on a rope passing through a metal ring.
Edit: On a technical point (yeah, okay - I'm a knot nerd) adjustable loops are often described as slipknots, slipped knots, nooses, running knots etc. Confusingly though, although often used as generic descriptions, in some cases the terms also refer to specific individual knots. Where I’ve used ‘slip knot’ I’ve used it in its more modern general sense of an adjustable loop – whereas, back in the day, Ashley insisted the term referred to only one specific type of adjustable loop.
A fixed loop is not the same as a slip knot. A noose is a slip knot. Fixed loops and slip knots are not at all designed for the same purposes and are not interchangeable - suggesting loops might be taken for nooses just shows technical ignorance, whichever side of the argument it comes from.
That said, it's impossible to tell from the garage photo whether the knot in question is actually a noose. The relatively long thicker section above the loop certainly gives the appearance of one - but, although I might place a modest bet on it, I maybe wouldn't swear to it in a court of law.
However - speaking theoretically - if I were to walk into a garage and see an actual noose hanging by a door then I really would assume that some form of offensive symbolism was involved. A proper noose knot is more difficult to tie than much more practical alternatives, it uses more line than is necessary, and - probably most importantly - it will automatically close up around the fingers of anyone pulling on the loop, quite severely so if used to lift anything of any weight. As a supposed 'garage door pull' such a thing would be not only be ridiculously over complex for the job in hand, but really quite painful to use. (I would also add that what I see is a rope with some form of loop on it hanging by a door; the garage door pull thing is just as much an assumption as anything else - in my experience with sizeable industrial unit doors like this one they tend to be continuous loops, and formed of chain, rather than rope.)
I doubt the symbolism of a noose knot has the impact anywhere else in the world that it does in the southern states of the US, and in any situation beyond hanging a man, a properly tied noose knot is technically pointless - therefore, if you do come across one, it's perfectly valid to ask what the point actually is.
*In my time I've been a climber, a hemp house flyman and a rigger - and have had to learn a lot of rope work along the way. I own the bible of knots (yes, there is one - and it is about the size of a substantial religious epic), Clifford W Ashley's, The Ashley Book of Knots. Ashley mentions the traditions of nine and thirteen in regard to the number of turns on a noose, but states that he learned the knot using eight turns. There is a lot of symbolism in traditional knot work - and I wonder if eight turns actually could refer to nine lives, the ninth being the one temporarily contained within the loop.
Incidentally I’m pretty sure that noose knots of this type were not employed in England for an awful long time, if they ever were. The English method - at least from the early 1800's - seems to have relied on a rope passing through a metal ring.
Edit: On a technical point (yeah, okay - I'm a knot nerd) adjustable loops are often described as slipknots, slipped knots, nooses, running knots etc. Confusingly though, although often used as generic descriptions, in some cases the terms also refer to specific individual knots. Where I’ve used ‘slip knot’ I’ve used it in its more modern general sense of an adjustable loop – whereas, back in the day, Ashley insisted the term referred to only one specific type of adjustable loop.
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