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Blood Eagle

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Anonymous

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Blood Angel

{Hmmm.....I'm not sure where this should go. It's more of a Notes and Queries kind of thing....Anyway, here goes}


Could anyone explain to me what a Blood Angel is and how it's done? I've heard something about it being a Viking execution thing, and it's something to do with pulling the rib-cage out through the spine, hence the Blood, and Angel because the ribs then look like wings. But I can't picture it (which I realise could be seen as a good thing)

Nevertheless, could someone please explain to me how it's done and what is done? I've tried googling, but Blood Angel does turn up some strange stuff :shock:
 
I thought it was something to do with the lungs being pulled out and spread like wings.

I'm very likely wrong though.
 
"Blood eagle"

The back was cut open, and the lungs yanked out into full view, where they would flap like bloody wings -- a blood eagle -- until the victim died.
 
I think that Blood Angels were/are one of the space marine corps in Warhammer 40K
 
Its actually called the Blood Eagle, some people say it's a myth, but given the Vikings robust approach to life, I suspect it's actually true.

There's a bit about it here:
In the footsteps of Ivarr the Boneless

BTW Vikings had a great talent for nicknames.

There's a bit in the Orkneyinga saga:

There they found Halfdan long-leg, and Einar made them carve an eagle on his back with a sword, and cut the ribs all from the backbone, and draw the lungs there out, and gave him to Odin for the victory he had won
 
Timble said:
Its actually called the Blood Eagle, some people say it's a myth

Although I think it'll now be difficult to pin down the Wikipedia has this to say:

There has been debate as to the actuality of the "blood eagle," with some suggesting it was never actually practiced, arguing rather that such accounts are based upon unsupported folklore or upon inaccurate translations. Ronald Hutton's The Pagan Religions of the Ancient British Isles: Their Nature and Legacy reports that "the hitherto notorious rite of the 'Blood Eagle,' the killing of a defeated warrior by pulling up his ribs and lungs through his back, has been shown to be almost certainly a Christian myth resulting from the misunderstanding of some older verse." (p 282)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_eagle

It also gives a number of old and recent examples of it appearing in literature.

----------
Also I've moved this over here and "fixed" the title.
 
Ah. Which probably explains why googling just came up with Warhammer stuff!

It is hard to imagine, practically, how the effect was achieved.

Thanks for the links
 
from The Poetic Edda (Hollander's translation):

(The Lay of Regin -- stanza 26)

After the battle Regin said:

"With bitter brand now the bloody eagle

was slashed in the back of Sigmund's banesman;

bolder in battle no baron ever

dyed the red earth and the ravens gladdened."
 
dreeness said:
from The Poetic Edda (Hollander's translation):

(The Lay of Regin -- stanza 26)

After the battle Regin said:

"With bitter brand now the bloody eagle

was slashed in the back of Sigmund's banesman;

bolder in battle no baron ever

dyed the red earth and the ravens gladdened."

Which doesn't go into much detail at all - so one wonders if the way the 'blood eagle' has been portrayed is based in any real grisly act.
 
I realise that what I'm asking is rather gruesome stuff, so please bear with me.

Is it actually possible to sever the ribs from the spine and pull the ribs out the back? I'm getting a bit more of a picture of it now, but wouldn't pulling the ribs out the back crush the lungs, and kill very quickly? Or is there some point I'm missing?
 
:)
If you were going to try it, it would probably take more than a few practice runs to get the desired effect.
I suppose it might be a bit like the business of cutting someone's heart out and eating it "before their dimming eyes", you would have to eat fast because the eyes would be getting very dim very quick, what with the shock and the sudden drop in blood pressure and all.
;)

(I don't know how long someone could linger with that kind of lung damage, but I remember reading that American soldiers in Korea were appalled at the number of carbine hits to the chest charging Chinese soldiers could take and still continue to rush forward, so maybe it might be possible...)
 
I would imagine it would take a great deal of strength to pull the ribs out of the back, compressing the lungs in the bargain.

Don't worry - it's not something I intend to attempt!

Far too messy for one thing ;)

No - it's the sort of thing I save for witty repartee at social gatherings, wine parties, and to drop into the odd story, tale, novel, musing. :D

So - practically - you slit them down the spine, break the ribs from the spine, then pull.

No - I shouldn't imagine they would last long, not even once the ribs have been severed from the spine.

It would present quite an image for people who found the victim though.


Hmmmm......
 
Ravenstone said:
So - practically - you slit them down the spine, break the ribs from the spine, then pull.

Hmmmm......

Actually I doubt you'd have to pull I think the musculature would snap the ribs out.

Tough bunch the vikings (oh yeah Heckler duh!) they found skeletons from battles between vikings where both legs had been severed at the thigh with a single stroke.
 
Ravenstone said:
It would present quite an image for people who found the victim though

I think that was one of the aims of the exercise, to show you really meant business and discourage anyone who thought resistance was good idea.
 
Heckler said:
Actually I doubt you'd have to pull I think the musculature would snap the ribs out.

Would it really? Even better.

Of course, it does rather lead us to the obvious question - how did they find out they could do that? :shock:

edit Oh definitely, Timble. That's the point I was trying to make, and failed miserably at! ;)
 
How did they find out they could do that?
--- Probably through constant tinkering, think of it as the Viking equivalent of origami.
:)
 
dreeness said:
Excellent article about this sort of thing:

link

Good find -they dismiss it completely:

How far the vikings were motivated by religious sentiments in war is far less clear. Acceptance that the gruesome rite of the ‘blood-eagle’ is the stuff of legend and not history still leaves open the wider question of the existence of militant paganism.[64]

[64]
ROBERTA FRANK, Viking atrocity and Skaldic Verse: The Rite of the Blood Eagle, English Historical Review, XCIX 1984, 332-43;
idem., The Blood-Eagle Again, Saga-Book of the Viking Society for Northern Research, XX 1988, 287-9.
For more general discussions of viking conduct see,
SARAH FOOT, Violence Against Christians? The Vikings and the Church in Ninth-Century England, Medieval History, I 1991, 3-16;
GUY HALSALL, Playing By Whose Rules? A Further Look at Viking Atrocity in the Ninth Century, Medieval History, II 1992, 2-12.

---------------
If it was made up by Christians as seems likely then I bet the Vikings were kicking themselves for missing that nifty PR idea ;)
 
Roberta Frank's 1984 paper is pretty scathing.

She quotes a 1974 talk by Afred Smythe which really laid the modern verison of the case out:

Examples of this practice many have included: King AElla of Northumbria, Halfdan son of King Haraldr Harfagri of Norway, King Edmund (a victim, like AElla, of the Great Danish Viking Ivarr), King Maelguala of Munster, and just possibly Archbishop AElfheah. ......... It happend in Scandinavia, in Ireland and in England. I am presuming that Francia was not exempt.

She then lays out the main claimed victims:

Ella and Halfdan - but points out that "the accounts of Saxo and the sagas are contradcited - sometimes flagrantly - by contemporary sources"

Lyngvi and the giant Brusi - no Brusi bonus for guessing these are figures of legend.

The actual procedure itself also becomes increasingly elaborate over time:

Saxo and Ragnars saga report it is the scratching of the picture of an eagle on Ella's back.

Orkneyinga saga describes it as the tearing out of the ribs and lungs as an offering to Odin.

Pastr af ragnar sonum says the eagle is carved on the back and the ribs torn form the spine and then their lungs are pulled out to from the "wings"

This seemingly gained even more elements in the 19th century and draw everything together and the 1970s say the addiiton of Kings Edmund and Maelguala to the list of victims and the addition of extra elements like piericng with arrows and javelins, lying them face down on a stone and then beheading at the end to form a full an lengthy ritual.

Although the Sagas aren't considered to be historical reports people have believed that the tales of Ivarr performing the blood eagle were true as the Sagas quote an earlier source - half a stanza/12 words.

She then rattles on discussing how skaldicists are now aware that the authors of the sagas may have misinterpretted earlier accounts and been misinterprtted themselves in turn.

The stanzas themselves are not easy to unravel - a word for word translation gives:

And Ella's back,
at had the one who dwelt,
Ivarr, with eagle,
York, cut.

This leads to a little discussion of translation which results in things like:

And Ivarr, who dwelt at York, cut an eagle on Ella's back

or:

And Ivarr, who dwelt at York, had an eagle cut on Ella's back

As these translations were Englishified they became:

And Iwar that ruled at York cut an Eagle on the back of AElla

and

And Ivar, who dwelt at York, carved the eagle on AElla's back

although other possible interpretations are:

And Ivarr, who dwelt at York, had Ella's back cut by an eagle

Ella fell in battle against the Vikings at York and the line may purely refer to the fact that the Vikings had reduced his body to carrion (like Anthony and Cleopatra IV, vii 12).

There is also a tradition of this kind of imagery in skaldic poems of the 9th to 11th century e.g. "Torf-Einarr muses over whose 'lot it will be to stand under the eagle's claw'" and raven's claws are also thrown into the mix as well as eagles.

She then discusses the use of "the past participle with instrumental dative" which I'll skip ;) but she gives numerous examples of this.

The paper them examines Smythe's claims that King Edmund was also blood eagled - it certainly reads like someone making the text fit their theory.

Overall it seems pretty conclusive (if pretty dense at some points) although I'm sure debate goes back and forth as Vikings are redeemed and then damned but the grounds for the whole thing seem shaky indeed.

Also from an UL perspective it is interesting to see how the accounts become increasingly elaborate over time.
 
OK Frank's discussion of this is:

Frank, R. (1984) Viking atrocity and skaldic verse: The rite of the blood eagle. English Historical Review. 99 (391). 332 - 43.

Frank, R. (1988) The blood-eagle again. Saga-Book (The Viking Society for Northern Research). 22 (114). 287 - 9.

Frank, R. (1991?) The blood-eagle once more. B. Ornithology and the interpretation of skaldic verse. Saga-Book (The Viking Society for Northern Research). 23 (115). 81 - 3.

and Smythe gets his repsonse back in here:

Smyth, A.P. (1999) The effect of Scandinavian raiders on the Englih and Irish chruches; A preliminary reassessment. In Smith, B. (ed.) Britain and Ireland 900-1300: Insular Responses to Medieval European Change. Cambridge University Press. 1 - 38.

And as luck would have it the relevant parts are in a PDF sample freely available (page 17 -21 of the PDF):
http://assets.cambridge.org/052157/319X ... Xwsc00.pdf
 
We have no way of knowing how long knowledge of this alleged practice may have persisted in the oral tradition, perhaps early accounts were less elaborate because at the time they required little or no elaboration.

You should see some of the things they write about the 20th century in the year 3022:

"I'm gonna give you cement overshoes." -- The gift of construction worker boots ("cement overshoes") was considered a particularly insulting gesture in 20th century organized crime syndicates, indicating that the recipient was capable only of the most menial tasks.

"This is going to cost you a pretty penny." -- Pretty pennies were available in gift sets at financial institutions and postal offices, because they were uncirculated coinage they retained their "pretty" appearance, and many increased in value over time.

"Stop busting my beans." -- Busted or mashed beans were considered unpalatable in 20th century cuisine, restaurant patrons would frequently scold chefs who dared served such damaged legumes.

:)
 
It sounds to me like the invading religion (Christianity) made up some porkies (shock horror) to demonise the old religion. Hence the here say and conjecture about something that probably never happened.
Just like stealing the pagan holidays and turning pagan gods like molech and baal into demons or alternative names for the devil.
The old ways are bad, the new are good, follow us and Jesus will save you...etc.
I think you would need surgical precision to perform such an act. I think if you tried with a war axe you would end up with nothing but a bloddied corpse that wasn't fit for show.
 
Fenris said:
It sounds to me like the invading religion (Christianity) made up some porkies (shock horror) to demonise the old religion. Hence the here say and conjecture about something that probably never happened.
Just like stealing the pagan holidays and turning pagan gods like molech and baal into demons or alternative names for the devil.
The old ways are bad, the new are good, follow us and Jesus will save you...etc.

Well, that's not completely true in all cases. And Christianity isn't the only religion to demonise the gods of other cultures.
 
I know that Christianity isn't the only religion to demonise gods from other religions, and that my comments are not accurate in many cases but am fairly sure that Christianity was the driving force behind the conversion of the Norsemen. I think the conversion to Christianity and the worship of one God is mentioned in Beowulf.
My main contention is the actual blood eagle itself. Your lungs are nice and big in the confines of your chest, but with no ability to operate your lungs outside the body they would shrivel up much like a punctured lung does, resulting in a flacid empty sack. (Viagra please).
The lack of belief that this actually happened or that it is actually a possible act to perform leads me to believe that it was in fact fabricated to induce fear and horror.
 
But pulling the ribs out of the back would achieve the right effect, yes?

Well, I can't write about things unless I can picture them, you know. ;)
 
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